Mitch Strickler

My wife would never turn an RX8 off cold, because the need for warmup is one of the many things she has been taught. When we had out of town guests and there was a suggestion that we drive to a theater about a mile away, she told them, "I'll take my Camry; Mitch can't drive Precious." (Her original name for the 8 was Toy Car, but after observing me wiping off brake dust after each outing, she switched to Precious.

Mitch Strickler

My wife would never turn an RX8 off cold, because the need for warmup is one of the many things she has been taught. When we had out of town guests and there was a suggestion that we drive to a theater about a mile away, she told them, "I'll take my Camry; Mitch can't drive Precious." (Her original name for the 8 was Toy Car, but after observing me wiping off brake dust after each outing, she switched to Precious.

MEGAREDS

Since this is an important question for me right now, I checked the manual. Page 7-25 (NAOM) shows three possible tow configurations: (1) regular tow truck, rear wheels lifted; (2) regular tow truck, front wheels lifted, rear wheels on dollies; (3) flatbed.

I'm taking the day off tomorrow just so I can ride with the car and push the dealership to work on it right away. As I said, if Mazda picks up the bill, I'll forgive them their design. They told me this would happen. (Unlike with their lame manual advice about snow tires that "may" be necessary - but that's another post). I won't allow this to happen again.

As for starting the car in the cold weather, I suspect it will be okay, even for a car stored outside in Vermont. I've always noticed that the car runs rough in the cold weather for a few minutes and struggles a bit more to start, but I think that the slight difficulty starting the car is inherent in the rotary design and that the ECU is programmed to handle this. You may want to rev the car to 3k or 4k just as you shut it down with the key. I think this is the best way to assure yourself that there is no unburned gas in the chambers because the chambers will be turning when the fuel injectors shut down.

It is also my suspicion that those of us who have to cold start the car often are suffering in the mileage department. Once it gets warm it stays warm for quite a while, but the 2-3 mile trips spread out over a couple hours at a time are hard on it. Almost all of my 2k miles have been "fun" miles - drives that last between 30 - 90 minutes. When the rust killing my Honda finally does it in and I start commuting with this car, I'm probably going to be unhappy with the fuel-economy issue.

I keep saying it, but thanks everyone for posting... this would have been a great deal more frustrating if I were at the mercy of the dealerships.

rxse7en

Pedal-to-the-floor fuel cut was introduced in the Series 5 RX7.

Brian

AF-RX8

Are you sure this is a flooding problem?

From the description on this board, it seems the flooding problem only occurs when the car is cold and you start the car and then turn it off without letting it warm up

idle0ne

thanks for the info MEGAREDS

RX-Nut

It sucks that these cars can flood so easy... can someone point me in the direction of thread that explains why our cars are so susceptible to flooding? Sorry.. we have some many posts on flooding, I got tired looking for the one that explained how and why..

8_wannabe

Actually, no; I'm not sure it's flooding. I'm making an assumption. Since I did no actions that typically lead to flooding it really makes me wonder. From my description above can anyone tell me is this what flooding sounds like? While holding down the gas and cranking for 10 seconds, occasionally I will get a mild backfire popping sound, but nothing remotely like the engine trying to catch.

Also, like I said this almost happened a couple days earlier. I drove about 15 miles, parked for an hour in 55 degree weather, then when I started the starter ran alone (kind of a whirring sound) for about 1.5 seconds then the engine started. Had no problems whatsoever for the next two days of intermittant driving. I didn't really hear the sound that first time cuz I was talking to my passenger. I said "What's that?" but by then it was idling and my passenger didn't even notice it. Yesterday, when I had my "flooding" problem -- if that's what it really is -- I immediately recognized the starter as the same sound as before.

flatso

As stated above, to avoid flooding, fully warm up the car before shutting it off. Just drive around the block if you are moving it for washing. Reving it to 3-4k RPM and turning off the key will let the engine coast down without the injectors firing, and should pump out any excess fuel, but some report they did this and still flooded it. Most important, DO NOT touch the gas pedal when starting.


Those of us with older RX-7s call the tailpipe stuff "smoot" (attempt at humour I guess). It's a mixture of carbon soot and half burned oil. In the case of the RX-8 it's mostly the carbon soot, but there is always some oil from the oil injection.


To meet the above mentioned 120K mile cat life, Mazda had to cool the cat when the engine was above 6000 RPM. To do this they programmed in excess fuel without air to burn it. Yes, they produce HC. No, this isn't tested for so is considered ok. I'm told they are more concerned with NOx than HC.


FYI, an aftermarket tuner group that I've been working with has come up with a modification (electronics) that fixes the extra rich mixture (and sets it correctly at almost all RPMs and loads) and gives about 25 extra HP. We saw the extra fuel in our dyno tests, just to confirm what a Mazda rep. told the community at the Seven Stock 6 rotary gathering last fall in California.


Of course, we would expect the cat. on cars so equipped to not last 120 k miles, but personally I think that is a silly thing to expect anyway. What the govt. body (CARB?) that mandated this should have done was require cat replacement after XX k miles, so HC and NOx would be controlled at all times.


Joys of having the Govt. tell you what to do.


http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web...index=.ef067e7

MEGAREDS

Thanks for the post, flatso. Hopefully that stuff on the driveway is "smoot" and there won't be any unforseen problems.

If the 120k cat rule has resulted in Mazda dumping HC into the air to enable it to meet the requirement, the rule needs to be changed.

idle0ne

what are all the acronyms here?

HC
NOx
Cat

i suspect cat means catalytic converter but not clear

MEGAREDS

HC - Hydrocarbons
NOx - Oxides of nitrogen (NO or NO2)
Cat - Catalytic Converter

This web page seems to sum it up.

MEGAREDS

See the following:
A little technical info about rotary engines and flooding

MEGAREDS

Latest update...

RX-GR8

oh man i hope i never get to take that picture!

8_wannabe

That's my pic from this morning. Took my beautiful red '8 to the shop, as we pulled in another flatbed was just leaving. Like a damn production line. At least I'll get the oil pan, a/c fix, 10K check and fix the flooding problem all at one stop. My car won't be ready till Monday cuz the sealant on the oil pan has to cure.

Chrisbert

Sealant has to cure? My dealer didn't mention that to me when my oil pan got changed. Crap, if they screwed that up I'm gonna be seriously pissed.

MEGAREDS

Funny, after checking on my car this morning, I passed a flatbed coming into the dealership with another Gray RX-8, just like mine. Since I've only seen two on the road since I bought mine in late October, it was a bit of a surprise. They're parked almost next to each other.

i3man

If you could keep the odometer running while you're taking that ride on the flatbed, that'd be one way to increase your gas mileage :p

8_wannabe

This is something I heard on this forum from several people. There's no gasket, but they put sealant that has to dry like 17 hours. Better ask! My car got in 10:00 am Friday; it'll be ready late Monday cuz they had to order the oil pan from Irvine.

8_wannabe

Hey, big news. Turned out I didn't flood after all. This was puzzling, cuz I didn't shut down cold and I couldn't figure out why I should flood.

Dealer just called and said the flywheel got damaged somehow. It engages the starter, and being damaged the starter is spinning but not really engaging. They have a flywheel on order. I've been without my car since Weds, but as long as they treat me right and I can keep the loaner I'm not gonna rush them. So when I first heard this sound before the actual problem came up obviously the flywheel was already damaged but "good enough" to keep starting. Good thing it waited: I was 500 miles from home and the car at least got home before dying on me.

AF-RX8

Wow talk about a close call from getting stranded . . . thank goodness you got home and I am happy to hear your problem wasn't a flooding problem . .

Nothing is better then finding out the solution to a problem . . . I hope you get your car back quickly !!!

MEGAREDS

Glad to hear it 8_wannabe. I was concerned you had bigger problems in that your car had flooding without cause. Nice to have a solid, repairable diagnosis.

As for me, I've got mixed news. My dealership called today and told me that the car was being deflooded, but that Mazda would not cover it under the warranty. I called Mazda, and they told me that they would cover it. I was very pleased, as you can imagine. When I came to pick up my car tonight, however, here is what my invoice said, right over the signature line:

CUSTOMER STATES THE CAR CRANKS AND DOES NOT START.
TOWED IN
FLOODED
R&R PLUGS AND CLEAN, DEFLOOD VEHICLE, CLEAR CODES AND TEST DRIVE
ONE TIME GOODWILL PER MAZDA. CUSTOMER WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY FUTURE FLOODING CONDITIONS. PROCEDURES FOR STARTING AND RUNNING VEHICLE ARE DETAILED IN THE OWNERS MANUAL
GO102XRX .4 .9

This needs to be its own thread... As I read this, Mazda is planning on not covering flooding. The comment that the "procedures for starting and running vehicle are detailed in the owners manual" is a crock... I have been telling people to read the manual carefully for several months now. I followed the procedure to the letter.

The dealership told me that deflooding would have been approximately $150 had it not been picked up by Mazda. When I asked about whether the tow would be free if needed it again, he said, "probably." When I asked if there had been other defloods, he said "not really, no."

"Houston, we have a problem..." Mazda did not tell me it was a one-time goodwill fix when I spoke to them on the phone... they told me "we'll cover it." I also don't believe that my dealership has not had other flooding calls. I feel I'm being lied to, and that is a real problem for me. If we don't get up-front open clarification from Mazda on how this will be handled in the future for all of us, I'm not able to recommend this car... it's just that simple.

MEGAREDS

I'm going to make this its own thread, but since some people may be subscribed to this one, I'll repost my info here as well:

My dealership called today and told me that the car was being deflooded, but that Mazda would not cover it under the warranty. I called Mazda, and they told me that they would cover it. I was very pleased, as you can imagine. When I came to pick up my car tonight, however, here is what my invoice said, right over the signature line:

CUSTOMER STATES THE CAR CRANKS AND DOES NOT START.
TOWED IN
FLOODED
R&R PLUGS AND CLEAN, DEFLOOD VEHICLE, CLEAR CODES AND TEST DRIVE
ONE TIME GOODWILL PER MAZDA. CUSTOMER WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY FUTURE FLOODING CONDITIONS. PROCEDURES FOR STARTING AND RUNNING VEHICLE ARE DETAILED IN THE OWNERS MANUAL
GO102XRX .4 .9

As I read this (I don't think there is any other way to read it), Mazda is planning on not covering flooded engines under warranty. I suppose that's fair enough, but people need to understand that up front. Also, the comment that the "procedures for starting and running vehicle are detailed in the owners manual" is a crock... I have been telling people to read the manual carefully for several months now. I followed the procedure to the letter. I also would like to point out that the "short-trip" procedure is not in the owners manual.

The dealership told me that deflooding would have been approximately $150 had it not been picked up by Mazda. When I asked about whether the tow would be free if I needed it again, he said, "probably."

When I asked if there had been other defloods, he said "not really, no." I'm just not believing it. Unless and until Mazda makes plain that the defloods are not covered and tells people what the costs they can expect when it happens, I just can recommend this car... Too many people here told me that they were covered, and I think Mazda is encouraging that ambiguity.

8_wannabe

This sux, and we don't have to take it lying down. I don't see how Mazda or a dealer unilaterally can decide not to honor their warranty. Stick to your guns and they'll service their cars.

On the bright side, per our poll "Who has flooded more than once" seems like only two in this forum have flooded two or more times.