Engine Break-In
10-30-2002, 09:43 PM
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Engine Break-In
Take a look at this article...
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This guy builds race engines for motorcycles. The key nugget of information relates to getting good piston-ring to cylinder wall sealing for the best power, durability and longevity.
I wonder if this is relevant to breaking in a rotary. I would think it does and will break mine in this way. If you think about it, no break in rules are violated. They always say don't sustain high revs or the same engine speed during the break in process.
Share your opinions.
Ciao,
Don
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This guy builds race engines for motorcycles. The key nugget of information relates to getting good piston-ring to cylinder wall sealing for the best power, durability and longevity.
I wonder if this is relevant to breaking in a rotary. I would think it does and will break mine in this way. If you think about it, no break in rules are violated. They always say don't sustain high revs or the same engine speed during the break in process.
Share your opinions.
Ciao,
Don
10-30-2002, 09:49 PM
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That link sure does get around.. :D Personally I would not do this to my engine, piston or rotary. There was a good discussion about this on this board : http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
Consensus was against it.
Consensus was against it.
11-01-2002, 08:49 AM
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What information did everyone use to refute this break-in procedure?
This guy is a race-winning engine builder. He describes the process and shows actual results of two different engine break-in procedures.
Too many peole "decide" that something works or does not based on theory alone. I like a few more facts.
When people talk about oil change intervals, I did some research. Not reading research, I got oil analysis done until I determined how long I could go on oil changes until the TBN was reduced to the point that it could no longer neutralize the acid byproducts from the combustion process.
Just my 2 cents.
Ciao,
Don
This guy is a race-winning engine builder. He describes the process and shows actual results of two different engine break-in procedures.
Too many peole "decide" that something works or does not based on theory alone. I like a few more facts.
When people talk about oil change intervals, I did some research. Not reading research, I got oil analysis done until I determined how long I could go on oil changes until the TBN was reduced to the point that it could no longer neutralize the acid byproducts from the combustion process.
Just my 2 cents.
Ciao,
Don
11-01-2002, 02:57 PM
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well, i'll link you to the thread...
these guys are pretty serious, and i don't think there was really a SURE consensus...
Break in Secrets discussion...
a few of these guys actually disagreed with some of the theory assumptions Motoman (or whomever) had when theorizing his break in procedures...
let's not also forget that he's building motorcycle racing engines, and here we're talkin' about a street car...
these guys are pretty serious, and i don't think there was really a SURE consensus...
Break in Secrets discussion...
a few of these guys actually disagreed with some of the theory assumptions Motoman (or whomever) had when theorizing his break in procedures...
let's not also forget that he's building motorcycle racing engines, and here we're talkin' about a street car...
11-01-2002, 08:14 PM
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Follow the OEM breakin procedures to the letter!!!!
The Race version of most any production engine has different internal tolerances than an engine built to last a long time. Most engines will run at fullest power, best, when they are nearing limits of maximum tolerance. Beyond these tolerances IS the point of failure.
The guy's procedure for a quick breakin on a race engine is more proper for quick sealing of the rings without wearing too far; so the engine will survive the race.
A long breakin period on a race engine would wear it out before the race!
In an engine built for high mileage, it is better to lengthen the breakin period to asure very smooth wear- in patterns. The initial break-in oil should be replaced before 500 miles and less than half throttle use should occur here.
The next 2500 miles should gradually increase both the rpm range and amount of power output. After the second oil change, drive it WITH MORE SPIRIT but never exceed 7000 rpm. After the third oil change you may use the 8500 redline if you so desire and you should have a rock solid rotary engine for the life of the car and your enjoyment.
The Race version of most any production engine has different internal tolerances than an engine built to last a long time. Most engines will run at fullest power, best, when they are nearing limits of maximum tolerance. Beyond these tolerances IS the point of failure.
The guy's procedure for a quick breakin on a race engine is more proper for quick sealing of the rings without wearing too far; so the engine will survive the race.
A long breakin period on a race engine would wear it out before the race!
In an engine built for high mileage, it is better to lengthen the breakin period to asure very smooth wear- in patterns. The initial break-in oil should be replaced before 500 miles and less than half throttle use should occur here.
The next 2500 miles should gradually increase both the rpm range and amount of power output. After the second oil change, drive it WITH MORE SPIRIT but never exceed 7000 rpm. After the third oil change you may use the 8500 redline if you so desire and you should have a rock solid rotary engine for the life of the car and your enjoyment.
11-02-2002, 01:54 AM
#9
Originally posted by MyT13B
Follow the OEM breakin procedures to the letter!!!!
The Race version of most any production engine has different internal tolerances than an engine built to last a long time. Most engines will run at fullest power, best, when they are nearing limits of maximum tolerance. Beyond these tolerances IS the point of failure.
The guy's procedure for a quick breakin on a race engine is more proper for quick sealing of the rings without wearing too far; so the engine will survive the race.
A long breakin period on a race engine would wear it out before the race!
In an engine built for high mileage, it is better to lengthen the breakin period to asure very smooth wear- in patterns. The initial break-in oil should be replaced before 500 miles and less than half throttle use should occur here.
The next 2500 miles should gradually increase both the rpm range and amount of power output. After the second oil change, drive it WITH MORE SPIRIT but never exceed 7000 rpm. After the third oil change you may use the 8500 redline if you so desire and you should have a rock solid rotary engine for the life of the car and your enjoyment.
Follow the OEM breakin procedures to the letter!!!!
The Race version of most any production engine has different internal tolerances than an engine built to last a long time. Most engines will run at fullest power, best, when they are nearing limits of maximum tolerance. Beyond these tolerances IS the point of failure.
The guy's procedure for a quick breakin on a race engine is more proper for quick sealing of the rings without wearing too far; so the engine will survive the race.
A long breakin period on a race engine would wear it out before the race!
In an engine built for high mileage, it is better to lengthen the breakin period to asure very smooth wear- in patterns. The initial break-in oil should be replaced before 500 miles and less than half throttle use should occur here.
The next 2500 miles should gradually increase both the rpm range and amount of power output. After the second oil change, drive it WITH MORE SPIRIT but never exceed 7000 rpm. After the third oil change you may use the 8500 redline if you so desire and you should have a rock solid rotary engine for the life of the car and your enjoyment.
11-02-2002, 07:06 PM
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This makes sense for motorcycle engines.
As far as I know, motorcycle engines are built, then installed into the bike.
Car engines are built, then they are spun up externally. For instance GM 3.5 DOH V6 (Oldmobile Intrigue/Aurora) is built, then spun up to 6000 rpms. That basically does what he suggests doing.
How does this even relate to the wankel engine. (not reciprocating piston)
As far as I know, motorcycle engines are built, then installed into the bike.
Car engines are built, then they are spun up externally. For instance GM 3.5 DOH V6 (Oldmobile Intrigue/Aurora) is built, then spun up to 6000 rpms. That basically does what he suggests doing.
How does this even relate to the wankel engine. (not reciprocating piston)
11-03-2002, 02:21 AM
#13
This is the first time I saw this post and wanted to add my 2 cents.
When it comes to a break-in period for a rotary engine this is what I found.
When in college, I wrote my graduating thesis on the rotary (Graduated in spring 83, Mechanical Engineering). I discovered through hours of research, numerous books and documents available at that time (and I might add – very few literature in 83), that breaking in the rotary engine was best done very gently.
In June of 83, after graduation, I purchased a 1st Gen top-o-the-line black beauty. I drove the car for the first 1500km, approximately 1000 miles and never exceeded the 3500rpm.
My 7 was very fast, always pulled well and never gave me any problems. When I sold the car (5 years later with 120,000K on it, the car showed a compression test identical to the one I performed on it when it was only a week old.
So, when I get my RX-8, I plan on babying the engine for the first 1000 miles… unless Mazda says otherwise.
As far as pistons, and break in periods… This does not concern me, I am only on earth to serve my rotary.
When it comes to a break-in period for a rotary engine this is what I found.
When in college, I wrote my graduating thesis on the rotary (Graduated in spring 83, Mechanical Engineering). I discovered through hours of research, numerous books and documents available at that time (and I might add – very few literature in 83), that breaking in the rotary engine was best done very gently.
In June of 83, after graduation, I purchased a 1st Gen top-o-the-line black beauty. I drove the car for the first 1500km, approximately 1000 miles and never exceeded the 3500rpm.
My 7 was very fast, always pulled well and never gave me any problems. When I sold the car (5 years later with 120,000K on it, the car showed a compression test identical to the one I performed on it when it was only a week old.
So, when I get my RX-8, I plan on babying the engine for the first 1000 miles… unless Mazda says otherwise.
As far as pistons, and break in periods… This does not concern me, I am only on earth to serve my rotary.
11-03-2002, 03:27 PM
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I guess I understand the man's point of view. I think he wants to say this: You have to make the sealings smooth. And by doing this fast, also with a non synthetic oil, and changing the oil and filter fast, you'll keep all the little metal pieces out of the engine. And if you do it al slow, you'll give the engine the opportunity to "aluminize", slowing all moving pieces down and make some more damage.
He also keeps saying: warm the engine completely up before running it hard... When I look at the people at my work, almost everybody puts the pedal to the metal when they leave work with a cold engine...
Another point he mentions is when you run it very easy, you might not be able to benefit from the warranty on the car's engine. By driving it hard, you'll know very soon if something went wrong in the factory.
I'm also in r/c racing (nitro engines) and I remember I drove my first car fast from the first time. It had never problems at all, it started from the first pull and had great performance. My second engine was run-in very carefully and it had a lot of problems starting and, when running a while, getting hotter and hotter, it just stopped suddenly. So I had to let it cool a bit down before running it again.
I think this 'motomans' method could be a better method.
Just my 2 cents...
He also keeps saying: warm the engine completely up before running it hard... When I look at the people at my work, almost everybody puts the pedal to the metal when they leave work with a cold engine...
Another point he mentions is when you run it very easy, you might not be able to benefit from the warranty on the car's engine. By driving it hard, you'll know very soon if something went wrong in the factory.
I'm also in r/c racing (nitro engines) and I remember I drove my first car fast from the first time. It had never problems at all, it started from the first pull and had great performance. My second engine was run-in very carefully and it had a lot of problems starting and, when running a while, getting hotter and hotter, it just stopped suddenly. So I had to let it cool a bit down before running it again.
I think this 'motomans' method could be a better method.
Just my 2 cents...
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