therm8

On the factory sunroof, there's a wind blocking bar that pops up when the roof is open. If I hold this bar down, I get the "helicopter" noise you spoke of. Perhaps, if all else fails you can have something similar installed. I would however continue to try and make the dealer rectify their mistake. It's not right that you didn't get what you paid for.

socalightning

I think a slide in roof would be better than my smallish roof that doesn't even open all the way, and looks silly when opened, IMHO. It is true that there should be a deflector bar the rises at the front of the sunroof opening to stop the rush of air that causes the "helicopter sound".

I once bought this sedan and had the dealer install a sunroof for me at purchase and it seemed BETTER than the factory. It slid inside the roof, unlike the OEM, and had the auto express open AND CLOSE feature - I think auto close is unavailable in most factory roofs and windows (think it's a liability issue). Actually if the auto close feature sensed a blockage it would reopen - I wonder if you have this feature now. The wind deflector bar would rise from the front of the frame like it does in our OEM RX-8s too. I was told it was a well made unit from Europe and it would never leak. ...And it cost $1000 or so back in 1996. It looked factory and nobody could tell it wasn't. It worked great for 8 years, and no leaks, but a small rattle. I wonder if your's is a similar make/model of roof.

I hope you get things right for you though.

zoom44

where does it slide into? does it slide in under the metal but above the head liner?

mandy24

The sunroof seemed to be of good quailty and did have the auto close, but you can over ride it and program it not to close when you turn off the engine. I don't know the brand because it is in the glove box, in my car. I was hoping to hear from the dealership today to see if the company found another sunroof to fit, but didn't. I really don't hold the sunroof company responisble. The dealership was the one that ordered it, if the dealership didn't make the instructions clear, how would they know. I am upset with install company because they supposely did not reconnect the battery correctly, and my side mirrors didn't work either when I got my car back.

Question:
Do they keep copies of what the computer kicks out when a warning light comes on. They said the battery cable was lose. Why would the check engine light be on, instead of the check battery light?? Snap on got me thinking when he said he didn't buy the lose cable story... any ideas why the check engine light would be on.

To zoom 44- yes, it slides under the metal but above the headline

Thanks again to all for answering my questions, I truly appreciate it.

Emsdad

My '04 325i has auto open/close on the roof, and all four door windows. One of my favorite features of the car.

beachdog

There is a reason why the factory roof slides back and up above the roof and not under the headliner - there are structural crossmembers in the roof that form the passenger compartment cage and provide the anchor points for the tops of the virtual B pillars.

If your roof is sliding back under the roof and above the headliner, I would be EXTREMELY CONCERNED that the structural crossmembers were cut, removed or otherwise modified in order to install the sunroof.

Personally, I wouldn't even keep that car if the dealer cannot prove that the structural integrity of the design has not been unmodified.

Sorry to pour fuel on this but the RX8 is proven to be very crashworthy and I wouldn't keep a car that had any of its capablilities reduced.

zoom44

exactly my worry- thanks beach dog.

dos

I think I would find anyway to get out of that car. If you keep having to take it in for the battery disconnect problem, or variuos other problems try to have the car lemon lawed. You may need to check your state to see if you can do this(http://www.lemonlawsusa.com/). Sorry to hear about your misfortune, I have really had no problems with my RX8, I guess this has all been a learning experience for you.

mandy24

Thank you, I can't begin to tell you how much I appreicate that knowledge about the structure. I have two kids and their friends are almost always with me!! God forbid, if I got into an accident and they were injured! I am diffently going to bring it up, its been three days since I dropped off my car, not a word. With this information, I am not waiting I am going to call.

dwynne

Any coupe (or "4 door sedan") with a curved roof line is pretty much going to have an outside moonroof. If you look at the profile on the roof and the size of the roof glass there is just no way that it would fit between the outer shell and the headliner - so it has to be an external roof.

Dennis

Gyro

A visual aid

As others have mentioned, I can't see how the center cross member was avoided.

cas2themoe

Have any pictures, I'm wondering what this looks like. Do they back up their work?

mandy24

Thank you very much for the visual aide. If they give me a hard time about the cross members, atleast I will know what to look for and can point it out to them. Still no word, we left a message and the service manger is suppose to call on Monday. I wish I had picture to post of my car, but I don't. I will post an update when we here from them.

Thanks again for the info!

jtimbck2

No reputable sunroof company should have installed a sunroof if they had to cut a structural member to do it. Of course after reading through this thread, I have my doubts about whether the dealer contracted with a reputable company! As others have said, you should get out of this car in any way you can. Good luck Mandy!

Wingtraveler

Mandy,
I don't know where you are located but Jack Giambalvo Pontiac/Mazda in York, PA has a blue RX8. It was either a left over or demo.

mandy24

Update:

The service manager called and they could NOT find a spoiler type roof to fit in the hole already cut. My husband talked to the sunroof company and wanted in writing what they did to my car. They first sent safety information on the sunroof they installed. (brand..inalfa sunroof) Husband called them back and said we needed to know what they did to the car. They sent a letter and they DID cut the cross member of my car.... they are telling us they did put in 6 side braces around the sunroof and it is SAFER than a spoiler type, that they would HAVE to cut the cross member for that roof as well?????

My husband is going to request they replace the car. He is waiting to speak with the general manager. I am just sick over the whole thing. I love my car and just want it back!! Both my husband and I agree we just cannot risk driving a car with my kids that may not be safe.


Thank all of you for your time and responses.....any ideas????? Help.....

beachdog

Mandy, good luck. I hope that the dealer comes through and replaces the car without too much delay or inconvenience.

Seems like the sunroof people were pretty honest so they must feel pretty confident that they did a quality installation. BUT, they are just a sunroof company and what might be a sound installation in another car might be a disaster in the 8. I doubt that they gave much thought at all to the fact that the 8 is designed to pass the energy of a side impact through the roof structure. Who knows how the car would react in a severe accident?

If it was my car I would probably pull the headliner out to see what they did just for curiosity sake.

mandy24

Thank you Beachdog and the rest of the gang! Your advice and knowledge has been very helpful and much appreciated. I will keep you posted on the outcome.

I hope these post keep someone else from making the same mistake we did!

Mandy

Go48

Just one. Let a lawyer handle the communication from this point on. The dealer and his sub will try to jerk you around until they realize you are serious about having them replace the car. Have an understanding with the lawyer on his fees up front and get it in writing.

My guess is that the dealer will fight this to the end, so prepare for a long process. Be patient and persistent. In the end, the dealer is responsible for the work of his sub and he will have to make it good. If it was me, I would ask for a cash settlement and would look to another dealer for a replacement car. Good luck!

alleycatinheaven

Although I don't consider myself a car brainiac I do know the legal system all too well. The dollars involved, several thousands up to thirty-thousand+ justifies exploying legal counsel to represent you. At this point I would consider hiring an attorney to simply write a letter on his stationary. Probably $100-200 cost. It would seem to me since they admit to removing structural integrity they have knowingly and willfully provided a customer with a potentially very dangerous vehicle. Their liability is running down their legs. Someone in the dealership who knows liability (like the owner and his attorney) should be plying you with anything they can to get you to sign off of the mods with the "knowledge" that you accept the car "as is". Make sure your specific regarding if you were ever informed that structural mods were required prior to authorizing the work. Your case is strongest if that conversation never occured. You were not requried to ask that, they were requried to inform you. If you haven't done so on paper you should immediately document dates, names, and detailed conversations on everything to do with this subject. Even with that there will always exist a liability trail back to the dealer as well as the sun roof manufacturer. I would discuss this with an attorney for sure and settle for nothing less than full satisfaction on your terms. Even if you decide not to consult an attorney I would suggest you begin to put all your correspondence in writing from now on. Best wishes to you!

staticlag

Of course, people change the "structural integrity" of their car all the time. Changing crossbars, endlinks, suspension, etc... when you come to mincing words, its all the same.

If they did a sound job, the whole issue of structural integity is not going to win you this case, nor will it provide justifiable cause for a replacement car.

The problem here is honestly you didn't shop around for your "dream rx8."

You accepted purchase of what you deemed an inferior vehicle, and drove it around for a month. Key word in the sentence is "accepted."

What you did was goto the company for a "service" type product, and thus it is subject to the terms and liability for merchant "service" type issues.

Example:

Say you wanted a Window installed in your house were there was none, and they accidently cut into a water main while installing said window. Water everywhere, big mess.

You willingly went to said window company for the market "service" of installing a window. It was your decision to initiate the modification of your house; the company may have made a mess and destroyed your wall, but they are only responsible for fixing the damage they caused, not trading or buying you a new house.

Responsible for returning the substrate to its initial contion

So, heres what will happen to your case(best case scenario):

The judge will find you were sold a "service" that you didn't expect (forgot the name of this law, but it IS on the books, and it IS time sensitive (something like 30 or 60 or 90 days or something)), and will order that the intial material(i.e.-the car) will be reconstituted to it's intial condition. Then it will be up to the dealership to decide the best way to comply, whether it is to

a) tear out and reweld
(probably what they are going to do, and if done properly, will be no less safe than the intitial)

b)(very unlikely) deem the cost of rewelding too expensive and just give you a new car.

Wost case scenario:
Since you didn't get any of this agreement in writing, they screw around with the courts, and have you settle with your current setup.

The problem is you went for a "service" and you had already accepted purchase.
services are:
haircuts
lawnmowing
painting houses
manicures

Services modify existing objects

Products are:
computers
watches
cars

When you buy a dell computer, or whatever, you have the expectation it will be a DELL COMPUTER, if it doesn't work correctly, or they accidently gave you a gatway, they are responsible for honoring the intitial condition of selling you the "good" of a "dell computer." Once you accept this product their liability drops in a time sensitive fashion.

zoom44

what the hell!! thats not just some minor thing that's incredibly dangerous- the doors do not now latch the way they safely engineered to do GET PICTURES ASAP

zoom44

nononono they cut a an integral frame supprot member that provides strutural rigidity in case of an accident !! that is in my mind criminally negligent!! there are 3 cross members in the roof one each between the a pillars and the c pillars and the one circled which is between the virtual b pillars and gives extra rigidity when the doors are closed. cutting any of these cross members without the knowledge AND consent of the end user is just plain wrong.

beachdog

Are you an attorney or a window installation company?

If the latter, I'd hate to be one of your customers.

beachdog

This is actually a simplified representation of the structure. I'm trying to find the engineering cutaway that the dealer gave me which shows not only the lateral crossmember connecting the "b" pillars but the criss-cross members which connect the left side b to right side c and vice versa.