elmalloc

I went to test drive an RX8, but they had no automatics left. I live in Ohio, and it was snowing but nothing but wet roads. Anyway, I can't drive manual - so he was test driving it while I sat in the passenger seat. While leaving the dealership he fish tailed while accelerating (for about 2-3 seconds), after that I assume he was kind of embarassed but started to go on about how he didn't turn on the dynamic control.

Anyway my questoin is this, there's NO question the RX8 is one of the most beautiful cars out there. It's hard for me to judge until I get behind the wheel, but how does everyone who has test drove an IS300 feel about a comparison?

The guy was quoting a fully loaded RX8 as 33K (with navigation). The Lexus with options I'm looking for is 34K. It's hard to tell which car drives smoother, I'm assuming the LExus does - but I didn't test drive it immediately after the RX8.

It's a very hard decision (buying a car) these days, there are a lot of good choices.

-ELmO

Gord96BRG

What do you mean by 'smoother'? There isn't ANY engine on the market at any price that is smoother than the Mazda Renesis rotary engine. The V12 engine would be second, and the inline 6 (as in BMWs and the IS300) would be third. If you mean smooth ride, then that has to be balanced against the handling. The RX-8 has an extremely good ride for it's level of handling (probably the best compromise between ride and handling for a sports car), but there are plenty of cars out there with smoother rides but not nearly as good handling.

Regards,
Gordon

elmalloc

I'm looking for a smooth ride. The lexus drove very smooth. I guess the Lexus isn't classified as a sports car, but more a luxury sports sedan.

I am looking for that type of car, maybe hte RX8 is more of a sport sedan. When I say luxury I mean a nice interior and smooth ride, with of course some balance with handling.

I didn't get to drive it so I can't comment on the handling, I thought the IS300 had great handling.

-ELmO

93rdcurrent

ELmO,

I love the handling in the RX-8. I believe that it compares to the M3. The Lexus is going to be more of a "Cadillac" ride than the RX-8 but you give up some of the sporty feel by doing that. Don't get me wrong the Lexus is nice. I test drove many cars before settling on this one and I am very happy with my choice. If I needed to give clients and co-workers regular rides around town it might have been a different story but I get to drive myself around most of the time and that is one reason why I chose this car. Otherwise I probably would have stuck with BMW since it has more backseat passenger room.

sean

yeah you could get a lexus, but then you'll have what every one else out there has!

BillK

I have to disagree; the RX-8 handles much better than the M3, IMHO, especially in curves. You can really feel that the BMW's a largeish coupe as compared to the 8.

That isn't to say the M3 isn't a wonderful car that handles well, it's just that IMHO its handling isn't quite as tight in the twisties as the 8 is...

8_wannabe

Not too sure about this. You don't have to "turn on" DSC. It automatically turns on everytime you start the car. I don't know if there's a way to permanently disable it. He was just showing off, and not very skillfully.

elmalloc

Yup I don't think he was even showing off, he was fish tailing going straight in the snowy rain, then only a few seconds later he started to talk about how well it handled and how smooth it drives.

I will see how I like it when I test drive it on Monday. So far the only cars I liked driving were the IS300 and Accord V6 for different reasons.

-ELmO

Jsuzuki

I think elmalloc needs to state what he wants out of a car.

Sports car? The RX-8 and IS300 is not a sports car. S2000 and Boxster are closer to sports car.

GT cruiser? The IS300 is more comfortable IMO. You should be considering the G35 and A4 as well.

GT sports? To carry four adults in okay comfort, the RX-8. Only kids in the backseat, the G35 coupe.

From elmalloc comments, I think he's looking for GT cruiser. IMO the RX-8 will be a dissappointment to him because of the harsh ride and the (interesting) quirks of the rotary engine.

elmalloc

I want a luxurious sports sedan. What's that? 4 seats, leather comfortable interior, smooth ride (as in good suspension), good handling, good acceleration, and relatively small in size.

I'm not looking for a specific car, I'm looking for what car is fun to drive. THe Accord is fun to drive to me due to its PRICE RANGE (!) and 240HP. It's ugly and too big, though.

The IS300 seems to be a much better external size, it dosen't have "awesome" looks either, but inside it's acceptably luxurious. THe acceleration is less than the accord, it feelse to ride as smoothly though. It struggles just a little bit more than the accord on the highway (maybe due to 215 HP), not sure. It's a very quiet car, if you punch it though it roars - which is fun.

The 3 series steering is too stiff for me. I tried a Z4 also, and I dind't like the steering. I think it's something with RWD in general, the steering was just too much hands on - it's fun to drive - but sometimes I don't want to have to think so much - IE I want the car to drive straight hands-free. The lexus was doing that, but still had great handling. The BMW steering is as I said, very stiff, which may mean great handling - but it wasn't fun to drive for me.

So I sat in passenger for the RX8 today, will try it myself on Monday. SO far the IS300 is in the lead due to looking better than the accord. The RX8 wins in pure looks.

What do you call the RX8 if not a sports sedan? It IS a sports sedan. Call it coupe if you don't count suicide doors. I am looking for a LUXURY SPORTS sedan, see if you can find a definition from what I described - it seems it's hard to find.

PS - I'm goign to the Audi dealership next week. I am goign to try an A4 and TT. They also sell the cheap benz, so I am going to try some of those out. As I said, I am just looking for something that feels right. I don't think it hurts to try different types of cars. I thoguht I wanted a Z4, till driving it.


-ELmO

Jsuzuki

Elmalloc. Couple more cars for you to consider in this price range and what you are looking for. (comfort, looks, good speed).

Acura TL. Wonderful power, very refined, comfortable. I really like the 80's styling. The crease that runs the length of the car is very interesting.

Audi A4. Decent power. Probably the most refined in this class. Comfortable but might be on the stiff side like the BMW and the RX-8. The tall belt line and chopped greenhouse is interesting and masculine. Don't bother with the TT if you didn't like how the BMW Z4 or 3 series felt.

Infiniti G35. Excellent power, probably the fastest of the bunch. It's an early car so refinement isn't quite there. IMO the coupe is the best looking of the bunch. It's bit stiff but not as bad as the RX-8. This is a car I seriously considered until I found the backseats too small and was more expensive the RX-8 with the options I wanted.

Toyota Camry / Lexus ES300. Decent power. Okay looks. Most comfortable of the bunch with high levels of refinement.

Lexus IS300. Decent power. Decent refinement. I'm surprised you didn't find the IS300 as stiff as the BMW 3 series. This is a car I seriously considered until I found the back seats too small.

Chrysler Crossfire. You mentioned considering a Z4, which is a two seater. So is this one. Unique style. German engineering (basically last years Mercedes SLK). Supposedly excellent handling and power.

---

And here's my little rant. The RX-8 is a GT. GT cars is the Infiniti G35, BMW 3 and 5 series, and Mercedes C series. My definition of GT is a rear wheel drive car that can realisticly seats four people, suspension set up for performance (which is too stiff for most), decent power, and decent creature comforts. (And within GT I think it could further seperated by "GT cruising" and "GT performance".)

I think elmalloc is looking for something entirely different and doesn't realize he's in the wrong category. Unfortunately the level of refinement and quickness gets expensive. The BMW 7 series ($68k) and Audi A8 ($68k) would be what you are looking for. Can't have everything eh? Low price, good performance, and good comfort seem to mutually exclusive. Sigh, I would like to get an Audi S8... and a Lotus Elise... and get my old Miata back... and a Porsche Cayenne to haul the kids around...

-=Zeqs=-

Well...if the car was equipped with dynamic control...it would be turned "on" from the very moment he started the car. In order for it to be off, he'd have to start the car, then purposefully click it off. Every time you start the car, it should be on, even if you had it off before you shut your car off.

Do not quote me on this...but I believe the IS300 has 200 horses as well in the A/T trim, which is about the same as the A/T version of the RX-8. The IS300 will have more torque though because I believe it is a 3.0 Liter engine.

Most people complain that the IS300's suspension setup is too "soft" compared to 3 series BMW's. I personally feel that the RX-8 is as firm, if not firmer of a ride compared to the 3 series.

elmalloc

I will comment more later, but both BMWs I test drove were significantly stiffer in steering than the IS300 that I drove (all were relatively new with 20 miles on them). I'm not looking for a large car, either. As I said, th eonly thing I really find wrong in the accord is that it looks terribly ugly and is too large.

I believe the IS300 is 215HP with an inline 6, but I'll double check. I can go up to 38-40K in a car, not saying I want to though. Unfortunately, that's not "cheap" to most people. Car enthusiasts of course belive that is though, but I should and will find a car that I'm looking for in range.

-ELmO

-=Zeqs=-

Some other ones to consider then would something along the lines of either a A4 Quattro, just load it up.

Acura TSX

Possibly even the "new" Pontiac GTO.

Those are "comfortable" rides with quick pick speed.

I'd have to agree with jsuzuki. I love the RX-8, but it's not for everybody. He's looking for an executive style ride that'll get the ladies back to his suite for some action.

elmalloc

Every forum rejects me, lol. Everyone thinks I don't know what I want - the most important thing to me is that the car drives FUN to me. I haven't test driven the RX8 yet. Only the IS300 and yes Accord V6 have fit this category so far, but I haven't tried an Audi or benz. Maybe after driving a benz, I will like smoothness over acceleration, etc. I don't know how all of you know how every car drives without having test driven then, but that's what I'm doing right now. I will figure it out, it just takes me a month to pick the right vehicle.

I list what I'm looking for, but I could end up with a pickup truck, if it turns out it's fun enough. I don't have any restrictions (IE wife etc) but parents would like ot ride in it sometimes. It doesn't control my decision, though I would rather have 4 seats than not for various reasons.

-ELmO

Hayseed

If you want fun, then it's the RX-8 IMO. And I don't get the remark about its having a harsh ride.

The Audi TT if fun, too, and if you're driving in snow it makes more sense. But know what? It's really not as fun as the RX-8. Buy snow tires.

640hp_911TT

Elmalloc,

It seems as if you'd be better off going with the Lexus than the RX-8. You want a comfortable ride... sport suspensions and tight steering bother you... you can't drive a manual transmission...

All the above adds up to someone who should own a Lexus and not the Mazda.

You've asked for information about which car may be best for you... but you've asked a group of people who (for the most part) have made up their minds... and the decision most likely wasn't the Lexus.

The Mazda RX8 is in a league of it's own... from both a performance standpoint as well as it's design.

If you want a performance vehicle and you want to stand out; get the RX8... if you want comfort and luxury with service that ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE BEAT (I've owned three Lexus vehicles); go with the Lexus.

Joe West

Speed-ER doc

I completely agree with 640HP above. I have also owned three Lexus cars, including the IS 300 (wife's car but I drove it a lot). Lexus service and reliability are unapproached by any other make, there is no comparison. Lexus makes the best quality vehicles in the world.

The IS 300 handles well, and feels quick, but cannot compare to the RX-8 in these features. The benefits of the IS 300 are the quiet ride, smooth manner, and easy access to the back seats - sure the RX suicide doors are neat, but you still have to flip the front seat up. If you are going to use the back seats much, this is a huge consideration. The IS is a great freeway car, but is very capable around town as well. It did make me feel a little claustrophobic whether driver or passenger though.

The RX-8 is a driver's car that can transport 3 passengers if necessary. The IS more suitable for comfortable cruising (really the ES is even better for that) with occasional outbursts of fun - but just not nearly as FUN as the RX.

For me, there is no comparison. The style factor, fun factor, and rotary make the RX my choice. I think the IS 300 might be what you are looking for.

shift_zoom8

Before I bought my RX8, I was seriously considering the Accord V6 (sedan, automatic), TSX, and IS300. Among those cars, I narrowed things down to the TSX (which I almost bought, when all of a sudden my attention turned to the RX8). However, during my LONG wait for a white pearl TSX to come in, I was able to get to know and test drive the TL.

I've never raced, I don't know how to speed shift, and I don't know anything about performance mods. But I am extremely detailed in just about everything I do. The RX8 has a very supple ride for a sports car. Over road imperfections, it will make little pliant thumps to accommodate, which is far far more supple than the 350Z. The IS300 is much softer like the TSX, but I wouldn't call the ride smoother. When I made a right turn at a moderate speed, the IS300's suspension did a little jump-skip. I'm not talking about the tires skidding or jumping a little, I'm talking about something within the rear suspension structure. There were complaints about the suspension in earlier years, but apparently they haven't fixed it. There is no doubt it's there. The TSX simply did not do that. Its multi-link is superior. The RX8's suspension front AND rear is superior to both. Period. It's incredible how the RX8's suspension is tuned to give a little (that's why magazines say one can actually take it on long distance cruises, unlike the 350Z) yet carves ferociously around turns and bends like almost nothing else at the price- certainly not an IS300 or TSX OR TL- and like very few exotic cars can.

Remember, originally I wasn't even considering an RX8. I was really deciding between the IS300 and TSX. Between the two, the TSX is, in my opinion, clearly superior. But I understand you may want rear-wheel drive. If you don't have to have rear-wheel drive, I think you should really be comparing the TL to the RX8.

shift_zoom8

I think what you're saying about steering is that you like more power assist. The IS300, Accord, and TSX all have plenty of assist. But did you know that the RX8 also has a ton of power assist? This is the thing that surprised me the MOST when I first test drove the RX8. All the magazines loved the RX8's steering feel and talked about how precise it is. I had always assumed precision demanded a much heavier feel, like in my dad's old Datsun 280ZX. I was wrong. You REALLY REALLY need to test drive the RX8.

Another thing you should have noticed in the IS300 (besides the undeniable flaw/weakness in the rear suspension) is the HUGE dead spot in the center of the steering. It is the biggest dead spot of any car's I have ever driven. It's bigger than the early 90's civics'.

Speed-ER doc

http://roadandtrack.com/article.asp?...&page_number=1

This might help.

elmalloc

Thanks for the great posts everyone. I will comment later after a test drive on Monday.

Yes, I am looking for a ride with good suspension and yet still fun to drive (good handling). I've even been looking at cars in different leagues, other than the infiniti g35 - but also the FX35!

-ELmO

ranger4277

elmalloc, where in ohio are you located?

mr_digital_uk

Ref the fishtail ... The tyres that are shipped with the RX-8 are crap in the wet and the snow ....

Upgrading them to SO3's will help a lot

PetersonPeleRx8

Elmalloc-

From what I gathered of your description of the test drive... The dealer/salesmen that drove you around didn't know what he was doing.

Since he decided to accelerate and fishtail (which was dumb) I have decided that HE accounted for the "rough ride" in the Rx8... which I thought was an impossibility!!

So, my advice to you is to go drive an Rx-8 for yourself, and really see what's happenin'!!!!

Good luck,

Brit