Comparing the RX-8 and BMW 330i. S0 Why Does the 330i Cost $15k More? Really.
10-09-2005, 12:27 PM
#1
Comparing the RX-8 and BMW 330i. S0 Why Does the 330i Cost $15k More? Really.
These cars have different personalities, but very similar similar specs on paper.
Both have the same weight distribution, similar horsepower ratings (manual tranny) nearly the same 0-60 (mph) times (RX-8 is faster, though), nearly the same skidpad performance (RX-8 is slightly more capable), and pretty close braking performance (RX-8 again bests the 330i, though).
Yet the 330i costs at least $15,000 more. Why? A case of mere teutonic snobbery, or something more substantive?
Both have the same weight distribution, similar horsepower ratings (manual tranny) nearly the same 0-60 (mph) times (RX-8 is faster, though), nearly the same skidpad performance (RX-8 is slightly more capable), and pretty close braking performance (RX-8 again bests the 330i, though).
Yet the 330i costs at least $15,000 more. Why? A case of mere teutonic snobbery, or something more substantive?
Last edited by RotoRocket; 10-09-2005 at 12:56 PM.
10-09-2005, 04:22 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I drove a 330i and found it to be a really comfortable daily driver without any excitement--certainly not like the 8 with its 9K redline. It does have a start button though.
10-09-2005, 06:30 PM
#7
Rexella's Daddy
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alright enough with it's just "bmw" badge...
Bmw has a reputation of building really good cars that aren't just street cars.. you can take most to a track and have a good time with it... just look at their history of racing.. especially m-cars..
You're paying extra for all the leather and luxury trim... and i'm pretty sure most of the chassis/engine/tranny components are well built... meaning.. cost more money
not to say mazda sucks or anything... mazda is just sweet and made a good deal for us..
personally.. i love how rx8 feel.. so i'm stickin by my baby..
Bmw has a reputation of building really good cars that aren't just street cars.. you can take most to a track and have a good time with it... just look at their history of racing.. especially m-cars..
You're paying extra for all the leather and luxury trim... and i'm pretty sure most of the chassis/engine/tranny components are well built... meaning.. cost more money
not to say mazda sucks or anything... mazda is just sweet and made a good deal for us..
personally.. i love how rx8 feel.. so i'm stickin by my baby..
10-09-2005, 08:30 PM
#9
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: So Cal
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fit and finish on the BMW is superior IMHO. The RX-8 plastic parts, paint, etc. just doesn't have that last bit of high finish or robustness. Nice to have that but wasn't worth an extra 15K to me. The RX-8 is good enough and the last bit of quality of the BMW doesn't count in driving.
10-09-2005, 08:31 PM
#10
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have an 05 Rx-8 and an 05 BMW X5 - just traded an 01 BMW 530i and a 2000 BMW 328CI (coupe). I love my 8 but I do believe the quality of materials (leather, stitching, non-plastic dash, etc) and subjectively workmanship are better on the BMW. My 530i had 75k miles when i traded it and had no squeaks or rattles. My 8 has quite a few rattles and in different location. Does anyone else have both where they can make a comparison?
A few of my friends have 05 BMW M3's and I like them but I see it had to justify their almost 30k more pricetag. Now when the new M3 (if they keep the name - might be M4) comes out, I might just be swayed.......
A few of my friends have 05 BMW M3's and I like them but I see it had to justify their almost 30k more pricetag. Now when the new M3 (if they keep the name - might be M4) comes out, I might just be swayed.......
10-09-2005, 08:41 PM
#11
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Pays for their new "free" maintenance program. :D
Alot more luxury.
Supply and demand.
Nameplate. (there's a reason Sony crap costs more, and it's not superior products
:p )
And most people associate price with quality, though it's not always true. BMW doesn't make the most reliable cars out there. Hell none of zee Germans do. But people still buy them because there's no real alternative. Acura, Infinity, Volvo, and Saab are all a step below in the luxury car market, particularly in the public's eye. Jags and the like are equal to and above.Cadillac is on a parallel with them, but still seperated by their being American. This is my observation of public opinion at any rate.
Alot more luxury.
Supply and demand.
Nameplate. (there's a reason Sony crap costs more, and it's not superior products
:p )
And most people associate price with quality, though it's not always true. BMW doesn't make the most reliable cars out there. Hell none of zee Germans do. But people still buy them because there's no real alternative. Acura, Infinity, Volvo, and Saab are all a step below in the luxury car market, particularly in the public's eye. Jags and the like are equal to and above.Cadillac is on a parallel with them, but still seperated by their being American. This is my observation of public opinion at any rate.
10-10-2005, 09:08 AM
#12
Purveyor of fine bass
Where did you get the $15K figure?
I just went to BMW's website, and I priced out a 330ci to $37,295 MSRP incl. dest charge. My 6MT car with sport package was $28,735 MSRP incl. dest charge. That's an $8.5K difference.
Now, realistically, I bought my car for invoice - 1K plus random crap, so it cost me about $26K, and I don't think you can buy the BMWs under MSRP, which makes the difference $11K.
What are you paying for? Luxury, the fit and finish of materials, the ride that is more refined, a good amount of reliability (maybe not Honda-like, but still top notch), the torquey grunt of 220ft/lbs of torque at 2750 RPM.
Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.
So basically, the car has extra features and attention to detail and safety that make BMW famous.
Now, whether those are features and things that you care about and are willing to pay for, is a whole different question.
I just went to BMW's website, and I priced out a 330ci to $37,295 MSRP incl. dest charge. My 6MT car with sport package was $28,735 MSRP incl. dest charge. That's an $8.5K difference.
Now, realistically, I bought my car for invoice - 1K plus random crap, so it cost me about $26K, and I don't think you can buy the BMWs under MSRP, which makes the difference $11K.
What are you paying for? Luxury, the fit and finish of materials, the ride that is more refined, a good amount of reliability (maybe not Honda-like, but still top notch), the torquey grunt of 220ft/lbs of torque at 2750 RPM.
Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.
So basically, the car has extra features and attention to detail and safety that make BMW famous.
Now, whether those are features and things that you care about and are willing to pay for, is a whole different question.
10-10-2005, 09:35 AM
#14
脾臓が痛みました
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Land of Peaches, Pecans, and Peanuts
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by Astral
What are you paying for? Luxury, the fit and finish of materials, the ride that is more refined, a good amount of reliability (maybe not Honda-like, but still top notch), the torquey grunt of 220ft/lbs of torque at 2750 RPM.
Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.
So basically, the car has extra features and attention to detail and safety that make BMW famous.
Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.
So basically, the car has extra features and attention to detail and safety that make BMW famous.
10-10-2005, 10:20 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd argue the build quality. I buddy of mine had one and that thing left our office parking lot on a wrecker 5 times in one year (I knopw all brands make lemons) But I know a few people with them, and they seem to be in the shop alot.. And when they go to the shop - good god. $280 for a battery???
I do think they feel like they are made better. And I do think the interior is alot nicer...But overall, I'd put money on my rx-8 starting up over the BMW.
I do think they feel like they are made better. And I do think the interior is alot nicer...But overall, I'd put money on my rx-8 starting up over the BMW.
10-10-2005, 11:09 AM
#16
Registered
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While German cars are wonderful while under warranty, they are nightmare afterwards and you don't want to go near one with over 100K miles. The repair bills are out of sight. Even if they break infrequently, one major repair can equal 5 or six on another car. There is a saying that applies to all German cars. If you can't afford a new one, you can't afford a used one, either. Some have had good experiences, but my folks have had a couple Mercedes, low and high line, and they both cost upwards of $1000-$1500 monthly in repair bills once they get high miles on them. I believe they are better now, but in the 80's they were superbly engineered to self-destruct at higher mileage. Why do you think Lexus and Acura did so well coming out new with zero lineage??? Because buyers still wanted to spend a lot of money, but they did not want to be taken advantage of anymore. I like the 8 because it's the only import sports car with an engine so simple that a major rebuild would still worthwhile. If I had a Z-twin turbo that died, I'd just leave the key in it and walk away. I think the Japenese build the best cars, period. And the Americans have the capability to do the same now, but it is only done infrequently here with a few models. And watch those South Koreans, they have learned how to make good cars too and they stand behind them. I would not hesitate to buy a Hyundai. That Tiburon is a very nice car, my dad owned one. Killed an equivalent Honda in fit and finish and quality of interior materials. Actually, it has more padded vinyl than the 8. I really hate this trend of hard plastic dashboards. Door panels even more because we rest on them and touch them every day.
Last edited by shahram72; 10-10-2005 at 11:16 AM.
10-10-2005, 11:13 AM
#17
BMW quality has deteriorate as of late. I know 4 people that hate their BMWs and can't wait to get rid of them. While they are all 3 series, the cars have had similar problems and the owners vouch never to buy a BMW again.
I personally don't feel the fit and finish in side the 3 series is all THAT superior that would justify $15k more.
I personally don't feel the fit and finish in side the 3 series is all THAT superior that would justify $15k more.
10-10-2005, 11:19 AM
#18
Originally Posted by Glyphon
my girlfriends car (05 new jetta tdi) has rain sensing wipers, 6disc mp3 player (std), dual zone auto climate control, power moon roof, heated seats, air conditioned glove box and center console, 10 airbags, if it goes off the road and ends up in deep water, it will float for 15 minutes and auto roll down the windows, and a ton of other stuff i can't remember...amenities that put it on par with BMWs, and it cost her 24 and some change before fees. and it averages just under 40 mpg mixed driving. so...that $15k really is just for the bmw badge
By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.
10-10-2005, 11:24 AM
#19
Originally Posted by 8_is_enuf
I'd argue the build quality. I buddy of mine had one and that thing left our office parking lot on a wrecker 5 times in one year (I knopw all brands make lemons) But I know a few people with them, and they seem to be in the shop alot.. And when they go to the shop - good god. $280 for a battery???
I do think they feel like they are made better. And I do think the interior is alot nicer...But overall, I'd put money on my rx-8 starting up over the BMW.
I do think they feel like they are made better. And I do think the interior is alot nicer...But overall, I'd put money on my rx-8 starting up over the BMW.
10-10-2005, 11:29 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: California
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd say a car is a car. Most cars (the kind most of us average joe's can afford) will lose immense amount of value as soon it is driven off the lot. And after 100k miles people are starting to see real problems, but only because many are too lazy to maintain their car. So why spend 60k on a luxury car when you're only going to get it replaced within 4 years, when you can buy one for less than 35k. The more little gadgets you have on your car, the better the chance something is going to break.
10-10-2005, 11:32 AM
#21
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
hardly. Your gf's jetta is a piece of ****. VW's reliability is **** poor, and their ride is completely uninspiring.
By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.
By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.
Who said anything about hating any other cars?
As a matter of fact, I actually like the BMW 3 Series, including the 325, 330 and M3. Moreover, I actuallly considered buying a BMW 330i.
I was asking, specifically, what was it about the 330i on the merits that warranted the relatively higher price over and above the RX-8.
If anyone is hating cars, you seem to be hating Volkswagens, no?
If you think this thread is stupid, why did you even bother to weigh in?
Last edited by RotoRocket; 10-10-2005 at 11:35 AM.
10-10-2005, 11:37 AM
#22
脾臓が痛みました
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Land of Peaches, Pecans, and Peanuts
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
hardly. Your gf's jetta is a piece of ****. VW's reliability is **** poor, and their ride is completely uninspiring.
By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.
By the way, this thread is stupid. Stop hating other cars people. And, stop being so arrogant.
VW's reliablity is much better today than it was a few years ago, and the ride might not be the same as the 8's, but its not intended to be. what it is intended to be is comfortable and safe, which it excels at, while having decent handling at the same time.
10-10-2005, 11:40 AM
#23
脾臓が痛みました
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Land of Peaches, Pecans, and Peanuts
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Who said anything about hating any other cars?
As a matter of fact, I actually like the BMW 3 Series, including the 325, 330 and M3. Moreover, I actuallly considered buying a BMW 330i.
I was asking, specifically, what was it about the 330i on the merits that warranted the relatively higher price over and above the RX-8.
If anyone is hating cars, you seem to be hating Volkswagens, no?
If you think this thread is stupid, why did you even bother to weigh in?
As a matter of fact, I actually like the BMW 3 Series, including the 325, 330 and M3. Moreover, I actuallly considered buying a BMW 330i.
I was asking, specifically, what was it about the 330i on the merits that warranted the relatively higher price over and above the RX-8.
If anyone is hating cars, you seem to be hating Volkswagens, no?
If you think this thread is stupid, why did you even bother to weigh in?
to have as similiar a comparision as possible, you'd need to compare the GT model to 330i, then the prices are much more comperable. and then the few thousand dollar difference can easiliy be to marketing.
10-10-2005, 11:44 AM
#24
Klingon Grammarian
Originally Posted by Astral
Where did you get the $15K figure?
I just went to BMW's website, and I priced out a 330ci to $37,295 MSRP incl. dest charge. My 6MT car with sport package was $28,735 MSRP incl. dest charge. That's an $8.5K difference.
Now, realistically, I bought my car for invoice - 1K plus random crap, so it cost me about $26K, and I don't think you can buy the BMWs under MSRP, which makes the difference $11K.
I just went to BMW's website, and I priced out a 330ci to $37,295 MSRP incl. dest charge. My 6MT car with sport package was $28,735 MSRP incl. dest charge. That's an $8.5K difference.
Now, realistically, I bought my car for invoice - 1K plus random crap, so it cost me about $26K, and I don't think you can buy the BMWs under MSRP, which makes the difference $11K.
Luxury-wise, you get standard items with the BMW that you don't get in my 8, like: rain-sensing wipers, fully automatic headlights, MP3 player (std), automatic temperature control, dual-zone A/C, automatic recirculation when a sensor detects certain pollutants in the air (e.g. carbon monoxide), the "head protection system" (a fancy safety feature), power moonroof (requires a more expensive package on the 8), power/memory seats, plus full maintenance for 4yrs/50K incl. normal wear and tear items.
As a side-comment, though... I'm sure all of us agree that having to actually *turn on* the wipers, all by yourself, when it starts to rain has been the bane of drivers ever since wipers were invented. Why, I nearly failed my drivers test because I couldn't manage to control the car while flipping that oh-so-difficult lever. And don't get me started about having to turn the **** and *manually* turn on the headlights! I can't use my sore, exhausted hand for 15 minutes after every time I have to perform that odious task!
Seriously, the creeping featurism in cars is getting out of hand. The ridiculous gadgets they come up with, so they can inflate the price of the car, in the name of "luxury"... A major reason I didn't buy a corvette was because they had vastly inflated the price with "options" (optional only in theory... *no* dealer in my extended area had one that didn't have all this junk) that I didn't need, didn't want, or outright would've preferred to not have even if they were free. My favorite example: the uber-high-tech automatic keyless electronic door lock/ignition. Saves you from that dreaded drudgery of having to *gasp* push the fob button to unlock the door (or even *shudder* unlock the door with a key!) Only one slight wisp of a problem with it: if the car battery dies, YOU CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR. Not just you can't unlock it, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT. (I know this because the idiot dealer I went to had actually let the floor model's battery die). And oh, the sharp engineers had thought about this problem, and provided a convenient solution: there's a secret magic manual switch *in the trunk* that will open the dead doors, and you can open the trunk with a key.
Which means that the Wonderous Magic of Keyless Corvetteness-- which requires you to carry around a very large and ridiculously-expensive-to-replace-when-you-lose-one fob-- also STILL requires you to carry around a big trunk key too.
One of the things I liked about the 8 was it had all the features I wanted, and none of the gee-whiz crap.
Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT
10-10-2005, 11:53 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Krankor
The difference is even less if one does a better job comparing apples and apples... see below.
So why then aren't we comparing against an 8 that at least has the features that you *can* get in an 8, such as power moonroof and power seats? I recall my Shinka retailing for like $33k, so you're talking maybe 4-5k difference, if the above-quoted BMW price is right ("Come on down!")
As a side-comment, though... I'm sure all of us agree that having to actually *turn on* the wipers, all by yourself, when it starts to rain has been the bane of drivers ever since wipers were invented. Why, I nearly failed my drivers test because I couldn't manage to control the car while flipping that oh-so-difficult lever. And don't get me started about having to turn the **** and *manually* turn on the headlights! I can't use my sore, exhausted hand for 15 minutes after every time I have to perform that odious task!
Seriously, the creeping featurism in cars is getting out of hand. The ridiculous gadgets they come up with, so they can inflate the price of the car, in the name of "luxury"... A major reason I didn't buy a corvette was because they had vastly inflated the price with "options" (optional only in theory... *no* dealer in my extended area had one that didn't have all this junk) that I didn't need, didn't want, or outright would've preferred to not have even if they were free. My favorite example: the uber-high-tech automatic keyless electronic door lock/ignition. Saves you from that dreaded drudgery of having to *gasp* push the fob button to unlock the door (or even *shudder* unlock the door with a key!) Only one slight wisp of a problem with it: if the car battery dies, YOU CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR. Not just you can't unlock it, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT. (I know this because the idiot dealer I went to had actually let the floor model's battery die). And oh, the sharp engineers had thought about this problem, and provided a convenient solution: there's a secret magic manual switch *in the trunk* that will open the dead doors, and you can open the trunk with a key.
Which means that the Wonderous Magic of Keyless Corvetteness-- which requires you to carry around a very large and ridiculously-expensive-to-replace-when-you-lose-one fob-- also STILL requires you to carry around a big trunk key too.
One of the things I liked about the 8 was it had all the features I wanted, and none of the gee-whiz crap.
Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT
So why then aren't we comparing against an 8 that at least has the features that you *can* get in an 8, such as power moonroof and power seats? I recall my Shinka retailing for like $33k, so you're talking maybe 4-5k difference, if the above-quoted BMW price is right ("Come on down!")
As a side-comment, though... I'm sure all of us agree that having to actually *turn on* the wipers, all by yourself, when it starts to rain has been the bane of drivers ever since wipers were invented. Why, I nearly failed my drivers test because I couldn't manage to control the car while flipping that oh-so-difficult lever. And don't get me started about having to turn the **** and *manually* turn on the headlights! I can't use my sore, exhausted hand for 15 minutes after every time I have to perform that odious task!
Seriously, the creeping featurism in cars is getting out of hand. The ridiculous gadgets they come up with, so they can inflate the price of the car, in the name of "luxury"... A major reason I didn't buy a corvette was because they had vastly inflated the price with "options" (optional only in theory... *no* dealer in my extended area had one that didn't have all this junk) that I didn't need, didn't want, or outright would've preferred to not have even if they were free. My favorite example: the uber-high-tech automatic keyless electronic door lock/ignition. Saves you from that dreaded drudgery of having to *gasp* push the fob button to unlock the door (or even *shudder* unlock the door with a key!) Only one slight wisp of a problem with it: if the car battery dies, YOU CAN'T OPEN THE DOOR. Not just you can't unlock it, YOU CAN'T OPEN IT. (I know this because the idiot dealer I went to had actually let the floor model's battery die). And oh, the sharp engineers had thought about this problem, and provided a convenient solution: there's a secret magic manual switch *in the trunk* that will open the dead doors, and you can open the trunk with a key.
Which means that the Wonderous Magic of Keyless Corvetteness-- which requires you to carry around a very large and ridiculously-expensive-to-replace-when-you-lose-one fob-- also STILL requires you to carry around a big trunk key too.
One of the things I liked about the 8 was it had all the features I wanted, and none of the gee-whiz crap.
Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT
I agree. And you forgot about the absolutely necessary rear bumper cameras and the lane departure warning systems. :D