California Will Start Testing for ECU Tunes
07-19-2021, 11:53 AM
#26
I too though Cali is a bad state to live in in terms of emission and exhaust related laws.
But if I take another look at how China is doing, they ban almost every single modification except for wheels and tires ( size have to match OEM), radiator lights, color change and itasha probably?
cops are on the street looking for this, yearly vehicle inspection is looking for this, ECU tune is in the gray area.
they don’t care, even CAI and cat backs have almost no impact on emission level and little on noise.
I always wanted an 8 there after I graduate but vehicle older than 15 years old is required to undergo inspection/emission twice a year and I would probably run catless anyway, it is a hassle.
For car enthusiasts like me, US is already a very good place, places like Bloomington that has no emission and not so strong enforcement on speeding is heaven for me.
Edit
Another thing to keep in mind is that Cali might start using OBD+Sniffer. If you flash your tune one night before the emission, the readiness monitor will be reset and become not ready and fails you from emission. Stuff like Evap monitor is just PITA.
But if I take another look at how China is doing, they ban almost every single modification except for wheels and tires ( size have to match OEM), radiator lights, color change and itasha probably?
cops are on the street looking for this, yearly vehicle inspection is looking for this, ECU tune is in the gray area.
they don’t care, even CAI and cat backs have almost no impact on emission level and little on noise.
I always wanted an 8 there after I graduate but vehicle older than 15 years old is required to undergo inspection/emission twice a year and I would probably run catless anyway, it is a hassle.
For car enthusiasts like me, US is already a very good place, places like Bloomington that has no emission and not so strong enforcement on speeding is heaven for me.
Edit
Another thing to keep in mind is that Cali might start using OBD+Sniffer. If you flash your tune one night before the emission, the readiness monitor will be reset and become not ready and fails you from emission. Stuff like Evap monitor is just PITA.
Last edited by Shaozhou Zhang; 07-19-2021 at 01:17 PM.
07-19-2021, 12:10 PM
#27
///// Upscale Zoom-Zoom
Has anyone used a more fancy OBD-II reader to pull up the ECM PCM information? All I have is the basic ELM327 unit ($19 USD). If you did pull up that ECM/PCM information, what does the output look like? (Please share).
07-19-2021, 02:10 PM
#29
Administrator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
yup, anything older than 1975 is smog exempt
07-20-2021, 12:58 PM
#30
California is still a great state.. but for some reason even with all of the perceived BS people think we deal with. This one actually did irk me way more than it should have. No moving out of state isn’t the solution… what is… I dunno.. perhaps getting more involved with politics. Hell we have 30 year olds flapping their mouths in congress. That is way too young to know wth is going on and start petitioning laws that mold our society. I’m not an old man but I know when I was 30, I was career and power hungry. And with age you actually make better use of your free time with issues that matter. This ECU check is a someone literally making work for themselves to make their department seem relevant.
...
the reasons I got irked and what led me down this rabbit hole. First I imported a Canadian rx8. But the only way to do it was to swap in another ECU from a US car. From a use standpoint nothing changes except the communication between the BCU and the cluster for the TPMS sensors. Now what’s going to stop them from flagging my car because the VIN in the ECU doesn’t match the VIN of the registration. Mind you my car is 100% legal. But I had to swap out the entire computer assembly from a junked Rx8.
...
the reasons I got irked and what led me down this rabbit hole. First I imported a Canadian rx8. But the only way to do it was to swap in another ECU from a US car. From a use standpoint nothing changes except the communication between the BCU and the cluster for the TPMS sensors. Now what’s going to stop them from flagging my car because the VIN in the ECU doesn’t match the VIN of the registration. Mind you my car is 100% legal. But I had to swap out the entire computer assembly from a junked Rx8.
Also, imagine if California opened a test process to actually test cars for quantitative emissions results and offer registration based on comparison to the car when it was tested new (e.g. more in depth sniffer for cars that are modified). That would certainly give them their money and jobs to do (regardless of how wrong that is), and the enthusiasts who care enough about the environment to build their cars "correctly" and "safely" would be able to drive them without flying under the radar. A lot of stuff like big cams and catless exhausts still wouldn't pass, but it's definitely better than the current system.
(Moderator please remove if deemed not relevant)
07-21-2021, 06:49 AM
#31
If true, this sucks of course. I wonder though that when the dealer flashed the ECU during recall or other times, did they already upload that new ECU state too? Sounds doubtful, so this claim needs verification. I guess we'll know once someone tries the reflash to stock before their smog check and then hopefully posts about the result.
07-21-2021, 07:50 AM
#32
I read a comment in a related discussion that actually this won't work because the checksum or some info that is used for verification also contains the number of flashes so even if returning the car to the stock ECU program, the result will not be in the central database of tunes and the car will still fail. The only way would be to pay the dealer to reflash the car to stock which they upload to said DB and then the car will pass the smog test.
If true, this sucks of course. I wonder though that when the dealer flashed the ECU during recall or other times, did they already upload that new ECU state too? Sounds doubtful, so this claim needs verification. I guess we'll know once someone tries the reflash to stock before their smog check and then hopefully posts about the result.
Is this a verified correct information?
If true, this sucks of course. I wonder though that when the dealer flashed the ECU during recall or other times, did they already upload that new ECU state too? Sounds doubtful, so this claim needs verification. I guess we'll know once someone tries the reflash to stock before their smog check and then hopefully posts about the result.
Is this a verified correct information?
07-25-2021, 04:42 AM
#33
I personally welcome this and say it was about time accountability has come into the discussion. We all know that if your car is 'modified' it doesn't belong on the street.
In the end these policies will do much more good for law abiding citizens driving on public roads than the impact it will have on performance shops, enthusiasts, auto economy, etc.
Hate to be the adult in the room but there are plenty of other hobbies which require modification(s) that will satisfy that 'tinkering' itch.
In the end these policies will do much more good for law abiding citizens driving on public roads than the impact it will have on performance shops, enthusiasts, auto economy, etc.
Hate to be the adult in the room but there are plenty of other hobbies which require modification(s) that will satisfy that 'tinkering' itch.
07-26-2021, 12:44 PM
#34
Registered
Meanwhile Jeff Bezos can shoot a rocket into space that will emit more pollutants that everyone on this board combined for a few minutes to laugh and get his jollies off and that is perfectly carb legal/allowed.
This is why regulations are a joke.
This is why regulations are a joke.
so no surprise to see it being flushed down the loo …
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08-04-2021, 07:44 AM
#36
While I agree with emissions controls, this seems like reaching. How much pollution could this possibly prevent that isn't already covered by other regs.
Jeff Bezos rockets burn hydrogen, so no they didn't pollute more than everyone on the board. No I don't know how he sources his hydrogen, yes it's probably natural gas, but the complaint was about the rocket, not the lack of sustainable infrastructure.
Jeff Bezos rockets burn hydrogen, so no they didn't pollute more than everyone on the board. No I don't know how he sources his hydrogen, yes it's probably natural gas, but the complaint was about the rocket, not the lack of sustainable infrastructure.
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DocWalt (08-04-2021)
08-20-2021, 05:54 PM
#37
I am a new RX8 owner as is my Son. One thing we both have going on with our RX8 is getting chunks of cat (I believe) In the exhaust. Removed his exhaust and got 3 or 4 marble size pieces out. Mine is now rattling as if it has new found cat friends of it's own. Brings me to my question, I have read a lot about cat removal on here and ways to over come the cods. My plan was to hollow out the cat and leave in place to be able to pass visual inspection, then was to address the cods via a COB or maybe even a spacer ( roll if the dice on spacers ). Now I'm seeing CA will check for tunes, I am left wondering if the codes are perma deleted with a COB type turner will this be seen as a tune , or modification of the factory settings and be a fail for smog. I know next to nothing about tuners so forgive me if that is a "dad" question , I honestly just don't know. Ultimately I don't plan to modify much if at all past the cat "delete" as I'm not doing that for power gains but more as a step to eliminate the taking of the exhaust every time a piece of cat let's loose and the possibility of damage from a clogged cat (not to mention $ of new cat replacement). My car is not throwing any codes with the pieces of cat in exhaust and neither is my son's if that means anything. The only thing I've seen as reliable way to remove code is through a tuner hope some one can take a moment to school me a bit on this and possible move forward options. Much appreciated !
Best,
Best,
08-20-2021, 06:06 PM
#38
Tuners such as Versatuner can tune out codes, but if California can detect ECU tunes, they could theoretically fail you on the tune regardless of the modifications in the tune. In addition, no quasi-off the shelf tune will reduce the actual emissions coming out of a cat delete RX8's tailpipe and hurting the environment.
08-20-2021, 06:07 PM
#39
Administrator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
hey D&S, first off welcome!
You and your son have 8's, that's pretty cool of you guys.
Alright, now onto your post: The chunks of honeycomb coming out of your exhaust isn't all that uncommon, I remember one of my old cats coming apart as it was on the dyno and just spitting out all sorts of bits.
Once the honeycomb breaks, the catalytic converter's days are quite numbered and it can now begin to clog the exhaust flow which is never good.
Hollowing out the catatlytic material is always an option but it will definitely throw a code.
You can mask the code using a COBB or VersaTuner but the problem is that requires overwriting the factory ECU tune which is what CA can now detect so yes, you would automatically fail.
When is your smog due?
if you're not throwing a code now you might be able to hurry up and get it tested while you still do not have a code and then at least you'll be good for the next 2 years which gives you time to source a good catalytic converter. If you get one for the two of you, you can just do what many have done and simply swap it on for the smog test.
You and your son have 8's, that's pretty cool of you guys.
Alright, now onto your post: The chunks of honeycomb coming out of your exhaust isn't all that uncommon, I remember one of my old cats coming apart as it was on the dyno and just spitting out all sorts of bits.
Once the honeycomb breaks, the catalytic converter's days are quite numbered and it can now begin to clog the exhaust flow which is never good.
Hollowing out the catatlytic material is always an option but it will definitely throw a code.
You can mask the code using a COBB or VersaTuner but the problem is that requires overwriting the factory ECU tune which is what CA can now detect so yes, you would automatically fail.
When is your smog due?
if you're not throwing a code now you might be able to hurry up and get it tested while you still do not have a code and then at least you'll be good for the next 2 years which gives you time to source a good catalytic converter. If you get one for the two of you, you can just do what many have done and simply swap it on for the smog test.
08-20-2021, 06:19 PM
#40
Registered
Also to add to this.. a smog is good for 90 days in California. So if that fits with your registration timing, like Jedi54 said... get a smog done now and then save up for a new catalytic convertor over the next 2 years.
RE: gutted cat / removal:
My track car doesn't have a cat and people can't breath behind it while we're staging in the pit lane. These cars run dirty without a cat. But run fine with them on. While it might seem like a lot of money for the cat.. they can last a long long time. I might be the minority but on the street I never run without a cat on.
RE: gutted cat / removal:
My track car doesn't have a cat and people can't breath behind it while we're staging in the pit lane. These cars run dirty without a cat. But run fine with them on. While it might seem like a lot of money for the cat.. they can last a long long time. I might be the minority but on the street I never run without a cat on.
08-20-2021, 07:02 PM
#41
Also to add to this.. a smog is good for 90 days in California. So if that fits with your registration timing, like Jedi54 said... get a smog done now and then save up for a new catalytic convertor over the next 2 years.
RE: gutted cat / removal:
My track car doesn't have a cat and people can't breath behind it while we're staging in the pit lane. These cars run dirty without a cat. But run fine with them on. While it might seem like a lot of money for the cat.. they can last a long long time. I might be the minority but on the street I never run without a cat on.
RE: gutted cat / removal:
My track car doesn't have a cat and people can't breath behind it while we're staging in the pit lane. These cars run dirty without a cat. But run fine with them on. While it might seem like a lot of money for the cat.. they can last a long long time. I might be the minority but on the street I never run without a cat on.
Mine had ~ 80k on the clock, I don't have a lot of info other than to say it was one owner and well taken care of from all I can gather. If the factory cats last into the 80-100k range then maybe that is the way to go. Out of all the CA smog bs the one thing I ever thought was of value was the cat and what it can do , so I'm not apposed to keeping it depending.
As for the other poster saying it's cool the Son and I both have them , thank you !
I'm old school muscle car, never paid attn to the rx models per say. When it came time to get him a proper drivers car the rx8 was a bit of a scarry option but one that ticked a lot of boxes for me personally as for what I wanted to see him have. The fact I test drove it the day after buying it for him and said holy crud what the heck is this. Guess it may be enough to say mine was purchased the following day and the only thing I don't like about it is the fear of loosing it ( engine crap out ) so I'm putting 6k aside for the day and letting that fear become a welcome event to get an even stouter 1.3 built when the time comes. It's been a great experience for us to both be traveling the RX8 road at the same time and enjoying it together.
And for an old fart like me, to say I would not trade the 8 for any car I've ever had in the past is a heck of a paradime shift. I think it's safe to say we are a rotary fan club house..... Never thought I say that
08-20-2021, 07:17 PM
#42
Registered
Thanks for the replys, maybe I'm asking the question backwards. I've read a bit about how the RX8 does not like cats and the issues that can follow. Maybe I should ask what the life span of a cat is typically on the 8 ?
Mine had ~ 80k on the clock, I don't have a lot of info other than to say it was one owner and well taken care of from all I can gather. If the factory cats last into the 80-100k range then maybe that is the way to go. Out of all the CA smog bs the one thing I ever thought was of value was the cat and what it can do , so I'm not apposed to keeping it depending.
As for the other poster saying it's cool the Son and I both have them , thank you !
I'm old school muscle car, never paid attn to the rx models per say. When it came time to get him a proper drivers car the rx8 was a bit of a scarry option but one that ticked a lot of boxes for me personally as for what I wanted to see him have. The fact I test drove it the day after buying it for him and said holy crud what the heck is this. Guess it may be enough to say mine was purchased the following day and the only thing I don't like about it is the fear of loosing it ( engine crap out ) so I'm putting 6k aside for the day and letting that fear become a welcome event to get an even stouter 1.3 built when the time comes. It's been a great experience for us to both be traveling the RX8 road at the same time and enjoying it together.
And for an old fart like me, to say I would not trade the 8 for any car I've ever had in the past is a heck of a paradime shift. I think it's safe to say we are a rotary fan club house..... Never thought I say that
Mine had ~ 80k on the clock, I don't have a lot of info other than to say it was one owner and well taken care of from all I can gather. If the factory cats last into the 80-100k range then maybe that is the way to go. Out of all the CA smog bs the one thing I ever thought was of value was the cat and what it can do , so I'm not apposed to keeping it depending.
As for the other poster saying it's cool the Son and I both have them , thank you !
I'm old school muscle car, never paid attn to the rx models per say. When it came time to get him a proper drivers car the rx8 was a bit of a scarry option but one that ticked a lot of boxes for me personally as for what I wanted to see him have. The fact I test drove it the day after buying it for him and said holy crud what the heck is this. Guess it may be enough to say mine was purchased the following day and the only thing I don't like about it is the fear of loosing it ( engine crap out ) so I'm putting 6k aside for the day and letting that fear become a welcome event to get an even stouter 1.3 built when the time comes. It's been a great experience for us to both be traveling the RX8 road at the same time and enjoying it together.
And for an old fart like me, to say I would not trade the 8 for any car I've ever had in the past is a heck of a paradime shift. I think it's safe to say we are a rotary fan club house..... Never thought I say that
08-20-2021, 07:25 PM
#43
Thanks for the replys, maybe I'm asking the question backwards. I've read a bit about how the RX8 does not like cats and the issues that can follow. Maybe I should ask what the life span of a cat is typically on the 8 ?
Mine had ~ 80k on the clock, I don't have a lot of info other than to say it was one owner and well taken care of from all I can gather. If the factory cats last into the 80-100k range then maybe that is the way to go. Out of all the CA smog bs the one thing I ever thought was of value was the cat and what it can do , so I'm not apposed to keeping it depending.
As for the other poster saying it's cool the Son and I both have them , thank you !
I'm old school muscle car, never paid attn to the rx models per say. When it came time to get him a proper drivers car the rx8 was a bit of a scarry option but one that ticked a lot of boxes for me personally as for what I wanted to see him have. The fact I test drove it the day after buying it for him and said holy crud what the heck is this. Guess it may be enough to say mine was purchased the following day and the only thing I don't like about it is the fear of loosing it ( engine crap out ) so I'm putting 6k aside for the day and letting that fear become a welcome event to get an even stouter 1.3 built when the time comes. It's been a great experience for us to both be traveling the RX8 road at the same time and enjoying it together.
And for an old fart like me, to say I would not trade the 8 for any car I've ever had in the past is a heck of a paradime shift. I think it's safe to say we are a rotary fan club house..... Never thought I say that
Mine had ~ 80k on the clock, I don't have a lot of info other than to say it was one owner and well taken care of from all I can gather. If the factory cats last into the 80-100k range then maybe that is the way to go. Out of all the CA smog bs the one thing I ever thought was of value was the cat and what it can do , so I'm not apposed to keeping it depending.
As for the other poster saying it's cool the Son and I both have them , thank you !
I'm old school muscle car, never paid attn to the rx models per say. When it came time to get him a proper drivers car the rx8 was a bit of a scarry option but one that ticked a lot of boxes for me personally as for what I wanted to see him have. The fact I test drove it the day after buying it for him and said holy crud what the heck is this. Guess it may be enough to say mine was purchased the following day and the only thing I don't like about it is the fear of loosing it ( engine crap out ) so I'm putting 6k aside for the day and letting that fear become a welcome event to get an even stouter 1.3 built when the time comes. It's been a great experience for us to both be traveling the RX8 road at the same time and enjoying it together.
And for an old fart like me, to say I would not trade the 8 for any car I've ever had in the past is a heck of a paradime shift. I think it's safe to say we are a rotary fan club house..... Never thought I say that
The factory cats are quite expensive , but I have not heard of any after market options that offer a competitive product vs cost. I am reading a lot of old posts so maybe I missed something. If their is a grand option for a quality replacement that is on the affordable side I'm all ears !
Again thank you to those that are taking time to respond its much appreciated !
08-20-2021, 07:36 PM
#44
Registered
Sry, should have added this before posting. I am not due for a smog any time soon, so no time rush other than to address the failing / clogged cat issue.
The factory cats are quite expensive , but I have not heard of any after market options that offer a competitive product vs cost. I am reading a lot of old posts so maybe I missed something. If their is a grand option for a quality replacement that is on the affordable side I'm all ears !
Again thank you to those that are taking time to respond its much appreciated !
The factory cats are quite expensive , but I have not heard of any after market options that offer a competitive product vs cost. I am reading a lot of old posts so maybe I missed something. If their is a grand option for a quality replacement that is on the affordable side I'm all ears !
Again thank you to those that are taking time to respond its much appreciated !
Not legal:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...rx-8/year/2007
Not legal:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...rx-8/year/2007
Legal:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...rx-8/year/2007
If its approved by CARB then you can run it np in California
08-20-2021, 09:40 PM
#45
Smoking turbo yay
Also to add to this.. a smog is good for 90 days in California. So if that fits with your registration timing, like Jedi54 said... get a smog done now and then save up for a new catalytic convertor over the next 2 years.
RE: gutted cat / removal:
My track car doesn't have a cat and people can't breath behind it while we're staging in the pit lane. These cars run dirty without a cat. But run fine with them on. While it might seem like a lot of money for the cat.. they can last a long long time. I might be the minority but on the street I never run without a cat on.
RE: gutted cat / removal:
My track car doesn't have a cat and people can't breath behind it while we're staging in the pit lane. These cars run dirty without a cat. But run fine with them on. While it might seem like a lot of money for the cat.. they can last a long long time. I might be the minority but on the street I never run without a cat on.
But if you don't want to run a cat normally, most people just have a cat they use to pass smog, and then take it off as soon as they are done. Just not sure how strict Californian police is with pulling you over for it on the road. I think Jedi would be able to answer that.
Regarding the tune, I know some of the newer cars have a tune counter that OEM can use for warranty purposes. I haven't heard the RX-8 having one, but I could be wrong.
08-21-2021, 12:38 AM
#46
Registered
It could lead to some very, very nice shots, however. This is from a blue R3 at one of the local open tracking days.
But if you don't want to run a cat normally, most people just have a cat they use to pass smog, and then take it off as soon as they are done. Just not sure how strict Californian police is with pulling you over for it on the road. I think Jedi would be able to answer that.
Regarding the tune, I know some of the newer cars have a tune counter that OEM can use for warranty purposes. I haven't heard the RX-8 having one, but I could be wrong.
But if you don't want to run a cat normally, most people just have a cat they use to pass smog, and then take it off as soon as they are done. Just not sure how strict Californian police is with pulling you over for it on the road. I think Jedi would be able to answer that.
Regarding the tune, I know some of the newer cars have a tune counter that OEM can use for warranty purposes. I haven't heard the RX-8 having one, but I could be wrong.
The cop thing depends on a list of factors in cali. Location location location is the main one. When I was younger I was pulled over many times because my rotary smelled really really bad. In San Diego in the nicer areas you wouldn't be harassed much. It's been a long time since I've personally run without a cat. I know north of the grapevine there are more sideshows going on so the Sheriffs and CHP are cracking down. LA I tend to avoid.. but there I've been sited for no front plates. It's really all over the place depending on where you are.
08-24-2021, 01:57 PM
#47
Grand Chancellor
Damn you and your pretty blue R3s!
I think it's hard to tell when a stock cat will last. It depends on your ignition system. Unburnt fuel clogs cat.
Most 3rd party cats cannot withstand the rotary heat and will break up sometimes within thousands of miles. I read HJS makes high quality cat. Not sure if it's a high flow or regular.
Since my 8 is not a daily driver I run a catless BHR midpipe with RB catback. Love the sound. Fireballs are a trip too.
I think it's hard to tell when a stock cat will last. It depends on your ignition system. Unburnt fuel clogs cat.
Most 3rd party cats cannot withstand the rotary heat and will break up sometimes within thousands of miles. I read HJS makes high quality cat. Not sure if it's a high flow or regular.
Since my 8 is not a daily driver I run a catless BHR midpipe with RB catback. Love the sound. Fireballs are a trip too.
08-26-2021, 04:43 PM
#48
Any one tried Walker brand cat ?
Damn you and your pretty blue R3s!
I think it's hard to tell when a stock cat will last. It depends on your ignition system. Unburnt fuel clogs cat.
Most 3rd party cats cannot withstand the rotary heat and will break up sometimes within thousands of miles. I read HJS makes high quality cat. Not sure if it's a high flow or regular.
Since my 8 is not a daily driver I run a catless BHR midpipe with RB catback. Love the sound. Fireballs are a trip too.
I think it's hard to tell when a stock cat will last. It depends on your ignition system. Unburnt fuel clogs cat.
Most 3rd party cats cannot withstand the rotary heat and will break up sometimes within thousands of miles. I read HJS makes high quality cat. Not sure if it's a high flow or regular.
Since my 8 is not a daily driver I run a catless BHR midpipe with RB catback. Love the sound. Fireballs are a trip too.
Best,
F&S
08-26-2021, 08:25 PM
#49
Administrator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Road & Track has a good article going into details of what this could mean
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...or-tuned-cars/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...or-tuned-cars/
08-27-2021, 06:15 PM
#50
Smoking turbo yay
I know Walker makes cats for cars like Honda Accord. I doubt they make cats for performance applications, especially considering how hot rotary cats can get.