RedLineShinka

Hey again... I've not been driving a stick for an awefully long time, actually, for about 3 months off/on and now every day for the past week since I bought my RX-8 - and I have this problem... I'm looking for some advice as to what i'm doing wrong... as I'm sure it's my fault.

When I shift from 1st -> 2nd gear I get that lurch or bounce, which feels like the car lurches forward, then stops, then lurches again... very uncomfortable. I've tried RPM matching best I can, slow-shifting, and fast-shifting and same result. Now, I don't suck at driving a 6speed, but wtf am I doing wrong here?! I can shift into all other gears (up) just fine and smooth ... (down-shifting is a whole 'nother problem for me).

Thanks in advance - I know this is a stupid question for those of you who drive manual for years, but I'm learning still, and I can't seem to master this one.

FoxTypeR

You just need more practice. Try slipping the clutch a little more (letting it out more slowly). It sounds like you're passing the engagement point too quickly. Think of it this way, your transmission is always spinning while the car is in motion. 3,000 lbs. of motion pulls at the wheels and as a result, it takes longer for the transmission to spin faster/slower than it does for the flywheel which weighs closer to 15 or 20 lbs. Whenever these two are not spinning the exact same speed, the transmission will speed up or slow down the flywheel, which can have a negative effect on both pieces of equipment, as well as killing the mechanical parts of your clutch. However, by letting out the clutch a little more slowly, you give time for the flywheel and transmission to start spinning more closely to the same speed. You cause more wear on the clutch (the normal wear parts, not the mechanically abusable parts), but it's designed to wear gradually over time anyway.

As a side note, it's harder to get the RX-8 shift points right than it is in most other vehicles, so I'm not suprised you're having this problem. All you need is more practice and a little more experience with the high engagement point clutch.

Glyphon

try shifting rather quickly, and slowly letting off of the clutch for the 1-2 shift.

:edit:
beat to it

Aratinga

First, let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You're NOT talking about the car lurching forward when you're taking off from a standstill in first gear, correct? That's a common issue for people who are rusty driving a manual. You're actually experiencing a lurch as you shift from first into second, as the car is already moving - right?

I seem to remember having a similar problem when I first got my 8 a couple years ago. It turns out that, in order to have really smooth 1st --> 2nd upshifts, you almost have to release the clutch as carefully as you do when you're taking off in 1st from a stop. In other words, you can't just push in clutch -> shift to 2nd -> let clutch out quickly (like you would for upshifts into 3rd and higher gears). You have to kind of feather or slip the clutch a little bit by modulating the clutch pedal as you release it, while you're also pressing the accelerator pedal with your other foot.

If you're trying to make your upshifts really quick, you'll sacrifice smoothness. Take your time, release the clutch a little slower, and you should get a feel for the 1-2 upshift. Oh, and one other thing I've noticed -- when I have the A/C on, sometimes the compressor kicks on just as I'm upshifting -- that momentary grab on the engine will cause my shift to be a little jerky. Try doing it with A/C both on and off to see if there's any difference.

dazygirl415

When people say to shift slowly, that's exactly what it means. When I first learned many moons ago, I thought I was letting go of the clutch slowly, but it still wasn't slow enough and I jerked all the time. SUPER DUPER slow is a slightly better way to describe it. When you feel the point where the gas picks up where the clutch leaves of, you can practice making it quicker. VERY VERY SLOWLY. :D

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

the lurch usually happens if you shift at too low rpm, like 1000rpm

missinmahseven

The 1st gear in this car is *really* short, so a verrrrrrrry smooth right foot is called for.

I've had mine for about 3 months, and only now is my 1-2 shift becoming un-detectable at light throttle settings.

When I'm getting into the loud pedal real hard, there's no such thing as a smooth 1-2 shift

Time and practice will smooth you out.

wedge357

on a side note, 1st gear is a tad tall so getting to 2nd is tricky... I let off the clutch slower or add some gas to reduce the lurching...

tazzydnc

Yea I noticed that too when I first got it. It just takes time to figure out that shift, I think it has to do with the 8 having to rev to get power, and the revs seem to drop fastest in that shift so you just need to be slow on dropping the clutch while giving it some gas.

FoxTypeR

Keep in mind that in the lower gears, the spacing for the ratios is very wide. As you drive more often, you will come to find out that the 1-2 shift is probably the hardest shift to pull off smoothly, and the method you use for the 1-2 will sometimes cause you to over-rev on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. It's a lot of work and a lot to think about, but just wait for that one day when you get it right, you feel a tingly inside. Then 5 minutes later you screw it up again and feel like a dork. Don't worry, it happens all the time ><.

RedLineShinka

Yes! Thanks - I needed that info. Good to know, thought I was just doing something stupid :-)

RedLineShinka

Thanks all - that's actually encouraging. I can shift 2->3, 3->4, 5->6 perfectly smoothly most of the time now... but the 1->2 and 4->5 kill me still. The 4->5 is still rough sometimes because it takes me a while to get to the gear on the shifter. I'm learning that one, and it's better...

Thanks!

FoxTypeR

Try doing the 4-5 shift at 125 sometime, you'll find the gear faster than you thought possible. Though I suggest you wait until you break-in the car fairly well first.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

i have found that my shifting smoothness is directly proportional to how tired i am at the time i am driving. when i'm fresh and awake i can shift like a racecar driver, but when it's go home time sometimes i shift like a complete n00b :o

MrJynx

give it time, i had about a 20min lesson on my friends Civic before jumping into my brand new 8. I could shift, just not smoothly. Practice practice!! it will get better, you'll see.. Now my passengers don't even realize i'm shifting but that's after 32000km of practice :P

wedge357

try this link

Glyphon

my practice was on a 2005 vette about a week before i bought my 8 :D

beachdog

The mechanical reason why the higher gear shifts are easier to make smoothly is because of the gear ratios. In the lower gears, ther rear wheels have very high leverage against the crankshaft. Very small differences in driveline speed vs. engine speed are felt as various lurches. As you move to the higher gears the leverage is reduced so any difference in speeds does not cause as large a disturbance.

The rotary also loses rpms much quicker than a piston engine so in the time it takes you to pass through neutral the revs can be down almost to idle if you don't get the gas up and the revs matched.

beachdog

Funny, I have been driving m/t for over 35 years and have handled the shifter like that since the beginning. I have always wondered why some people shift all gears the same with the palm on top of the shifter. I show people how easy the 8 shifts by using my index finger for the forehand shifts and pinky for the backhand shifts.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

wow nice, someone actually made a site on 'how to shift' lol, that's exactly the way i handle the shifter! lol

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

i am currently working on shifting with only my thumb, index and middle finger, key is lightness and touch :D

utente

I was always a little emabarrassed with that 1-2 shift. The rpm did drop precipitously and I tried different things to help. I tried letting out the clutch more slowly, but it didn't feel right. I even tried matching engine speed in neutral, as in a down-shift.

Finally, I tried shifting at higher rpm and that fixed it right away. I mentioned it to my girl friend, who reminded me that when we'd bought the car I'd kept saying that you had to shift at higher points because of the tiny engine. Smartypants!

Anyway, it's much better now. Just try a higher shift point.

On a related matter-- sometimes the gears grind a tiny bit going from 4 to 5. Since I live in San Francisco, I don't get out of 2nd or 3rd very often, so I guess I need more practice.

Down-shifting in this car is a pleasure. So easy to match the engine speed, with almost undetectable shifts.

LIShinka

Something I've found useful if going for the smoothest of shifts, especially from 1 to 2. Mimic the best automatic transmissions out there. Instead of staying on the gas until just before you disengage the clutch, trying lightening your throttle application slightly before you depress the clutch. Then hold the gas pedal exactly where you have it, as you disengage the clutch, shift and smoothly re-engage (a slight slowdown right at the engagement point is all you need). Using this method the engine revs seem to always be perfectly matched when I get the shifter into second and the clutch out to the engagement point. Once you get past the slight slowdown at the engagement point, you can quickly let the clutch out the rest of the way and dip back into the throttle a bit. It is probably a little bit of a timing/feel thing, but I've only got about 10k miles of manual driving in my life, <1k with the RX and I've managed to get the feel where this is natural and smooth to me, with almost indetectable shifts.

Just another method that may be worth a try. Not sure if it will work for you, or if I was able to explain what I do clearly enough.

Good luck. As many have said, with time you'll master what works best for you.

Matt RX8

Good luck with learning how to shift.

Personally, I think the RX-8 is one of the easiest cars to drive with a manual that I've driven. The gearbox is silky smooth and the whole low torque thing makes it super easy to shift smoothly. Something torquier like a WRX or an older BMW 330i can be harder to drive as smooth. Although, some of the newer BMWs now have idiotproof numb clutches.

I personally have never noticed any issues with the 1-2 shift in my car but I have been driving a variety of manual transmission cars for the last 16 years or so.

I have some young friends in their early twenties that seem to think I'm really good at shifting when they drive with me but I think it is just that this car is so easy to drive.

Anyway, give it some time and practice and I'm sure it will work out for you. Next you should learn heel and toe downshifting.

Fleck

I am already teaching my nine year old daughter to shift for me when she hears me let off the gas. I tell her that the car will be hers in high school if she does well in grades. Good motivation. Eh! I tell her she will be the coolest in the eyes of all the high school boys. She will drive an awesome sports car and she can drive a stick 6 spd manual !. Not many girls can drive a stick.

Her awesome mother can drive the 8 with authority. In fact, I think my attraction to my wife was that she drove a stick Mustang when we first met. Something to consider, not anything deep we think about in girlfriend/wife relationships, but then again who is not turned on by an attractive lady driving a Harley. Appealing in an exotic way.