mysql

That's not scary. That is EXPECTED.

The engine TSB thing only requires them to reflash and change plugs, and check your cat. Unless you reported issues with low power, they do not run a compression test on the engine. so the entire situation is contrived and not designed to actually find car's that require engine replacement. It only does that for people who currently show symptoms.

Raptor75

Son of a bitch, I thought they had to check the vacuum. I figured they were doing the vacuum test instead of the compression test because a compression test would undoubtedly turn up more engines not meeting spec and now to here this. Really confirms my opinion that Mazda is run by a bunch of weasels.

mysql

they increased our warranty, something they didn't have to do. They just aren't going to go after fixing engines when the owners don't notice any problems. Many of the low compression results was due to carbon buildup anyway, hence the new carbon cleanup TSB.

I think Mazda is doing a decent job. I would have liked for the engine to be a bit more durable from the get-go, but I'm still on the original engine and mine is not babied.

It's really a game of chance. How'd your luck holding out?

Shoafb

They really should have extended it beyond the 5yr/50k that they did, something like 6yr/100k might have shown a little more confidence.

mysql

why would they do that? they don't carry that warranty on any of their vehicles.

Shoafb

It would have shown a little more confidence in the Rotary engine and would have shored up the resale value a bit.

The way it is I believe there will be many engines that will be out of warranty when they need to be repalced. 50k is not that many miles for some people.

It should be nothing for any engine to reach 100k when properly maintained. 75k is a breeze...... unless your worried about the design not making it.

JRichter

I see what your saying as far as boosting confidence to the average Joe, but if this holds true then every manufacturer would have no problem doing the same for any car. Have you ever owned another rotary powered car? I had an '89 RX-7 NA with 250k+ miles on the original engine with no rebuild or anything. It was actually maintained less than any other car I had cause I was young and poor.

fahrfegneugen

No they didn't have to do it, but with so many engines going out at such young ages, it starts turning into a consumer protection issue with the government and starts making mazda look like it is not selling cars of merchantable quality.

JRichter

I would think once a car has aged considerably or neared the 100k mark, then there is many factors/variables that could lead to the demise of the engine without the engine itself necessarily being the cause. In a sense the manufacturer would have a hard time distinguishing between an original mechanical defect (which would be covered under warranty) and wear and tear, abuse and/or lack of maintenance throughout the miles that would have eventually lead to an engine problem later down the road.

JRichter

This is true but like anything else, you buy the car and sign the papers knowing what is covered and how long. If your unsure and worried you have the right as a consumer to choose any other car or brand. I wouldn't blame Shoafb one bit for trading his 8 off while he still is under favorable conditions and depending on reported future experience with other peoples 8's I would more than likely trade mine in for a new one or something else as it nears the warranty limits.

Shoafb

it has happened to other mfgrs. and they stepped up to the plate.

I may not have this exactly right... but I know Toyota had a sludgeing problem on some of thier engines. They where all extended to 100k warranties, some of them replaced even after the 100k for free. THAT is how you stand behind your product and create confidence.

JRichter

Has any, one known design defect been called out that contributes to the 8's engine failures such as in the Toyota's? What's the amount of Toyota's that were effected verses the amount of 8's with faulty engines compared to each one's overall sales?

Wasn't there a petition list and several class action lawsuits pending against Toyota before they did anything about it?

It's still early for Mazda as I don't think the 8 has gotten that far along and your engine is being replaced for free under warranty (as was most all of them) so what's the need to extend warranty to 100k as of yet? More stuff could happen in the future as the car and engine ages so who knows. It's still too early.

fahrfegneugen

There is a reasonable assumption that when you pay thousands of dollars for an automobile, it should perform it's purpose, which is driving. Although I agree if you are worried, you should get something else. However, you cannot really tell someone who is due diligence that they should just have just got a different car when they just spent 20-30k and it wont run.

By the way, my engine is about to go out. It is getting towed to the dealer Monday

Shoafb

What model and year do you have? How many miles?

Sorry to about your troubles as well.

On a brighter note we have a Miata hard top retractable for the weekend to test drive. It is a blast to drive. We just have to go through the final numbers tomorrow so it looks like the 8 is going to go.

fahrfegneugen

The Miata will be a super reliable car. That is a good choice, the hard top is an even better choice.

Mine is 2004 with 48k. However, I am the second owner. When I called up the dealer he said that they had replaced a ton of engines in the 2004s. The tranny just got replaced last month and now I will have a new engine. Seems like a keeper to me if I can get this engine to last longer. I have a brand new car almost.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I gotta say it again and again.

Engine failures happen to EVERY SINGLE car out there.

Nissan's VQ25? Even newest Honda K20A having some kind of problems (not as bad as Nissan)

People are so fed up about Rotary is Because Rotary is *special*, and people pay *special* attention to *special* things. Thats why it makes Rotary's problem really sound like bigger than it is.

I still think the biggest problem is the Ford's 5w20 crap. Other parts of the world never had as much engine problem as North America market does. Why ? You go ahead and ask people working on Rotaries in Japan, they will tell you its crazy to go for 5w20. they use at LEAST 0w30. most will go as far as 45.

Mazda's OMP rate is pretty lame too, but cant really blame them, we gotta thx EPA for that.

Shoafb

ok so I searched from google and typed the following.

VQ25 failure
K20A failure
Renesis failure

I didn't see anything at all for the VQ25 or the K20A
Can they have an engine fail? Yes. But if it where as widespread as the 04 Renesis problem I would think you would at least get a hit doing the search... Plenty to read about the Renesis though.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Nissan's VQ25DE was a very well known problem. You need to Search harder. Nissan did issue a recall for it. most nissan guys just called their engine the 2.5. thats probably why u never found it. but anyway your search skills has failed.

K20A is not as widespread yet, cuz most of them related to the new Valve timing control device. Not the engine inside has a problem. and most people never really *notice* the problem. the new system is there to control Power & mpg. again most Honda guys doesnt even know what their engine's name are. they just call them by the body trim.

For Renesis, since Rotary is special, whenever something special has a problem, people just gotta make a big fuss about it. but is the problem really as bad as the person seems it to be? maybe, maybe not.

Not to mention, most Renesis problem happens in the States, we have the most ridiculous emission laws outa the whole world. Sure Emission laws are cool, and I support Emission laws, but dont forget MOST emission laws are SET BY politicians, who has ZERO clue about whats Science and whats bullshit. *cough*bush*cough*, sadly, Auto makers have no choice but to give up A LOT of things in order to reach these stupid rules. In the older days, its easy as hell to have engines to go over 150K miles without even proper maintenance, now ? Even with Proper maintenance, you have to be kinda lucky to have an engine go that far.

Then another problem comes in, most Americans does not give a crap about cars going over 100K miles. so why would any Auto companies care about Qualities anymore?

You see this is a "bad bad cycle".

fahrfegneugen

Americans don't care about cars going over 100k? That is a generalization that is almost entirely wrong.

Shoafb

What??? You can not be serious.... I certainly care about a car making it 100k with no major engine problems. I believe (piston) engines are more reliable now then they ever have been.

As far as the renisis being "special" so more people notice it and that magnifies the problem. That just does not float. If Nissan or Honda had that amount of failures it would blown up ( no pun intended haha ) no more, no less then this one has.

lucifuge

I had a 2004 Rx8 and now a 2007 Mx5. I can tell you it's been the most fun I've had compared to last 3 cars I've owned (Rx8, RSX and WRX). Not as fast, but more than quick enough on the street and so chuckable. I feel I am much closer to limits of this car than the other powerful cars (on the street). So I'm getting far more out of it. And the handling, omg, so good!!!!!!!!! You'll be happy with fuel economy too

lucifuge

Where did read about K20A problems? I'd be very interested to know.

Shoafb

Yea, I am loving it. VERY fun car to drive.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

what year did they have all the bad miata engines. i forget..

beers

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well, I understand. Its important for me and lots of people on this forum too, but the problem is that MAJORITY of people in the states does NOT care. You can Find some reports about what's amercan's car shopping habbit. You can see that they dont even want cars thats like reaching the 100K mark

the differents between Nissan and Mazda is here. Nissan they issue the recall as SOON as they see the problem, that way, they got it before lots of them start noticing a problem.

But MAZDA, on the other hand, let the problem to grow BIG enough to *admit* the problem.

You would have to search and read forums yourself.

K20A is a pretty impressive engine IMO, it balances the power & mpg, it might be just a bit new, so just give it a bit of time and everything will be cool. (I think the Red top cover is pretty cool)