Hercules

They do what they do well... point a to point b driving in style and some power. Granted, it's not fast at ALL, but on the highway there's some decent power.. And the interior is nice enough to travel in.

It's not a sports car, and it's not a luxury car. It's just a passenger car with leather and for that, it's great.

And it IS 21k after all the rebates.

boowana

For those of you who can make it to the Texas State Fair, the following cars are on display.
350Z - on a stage- black-track package-does look good all polished up - over $35K list.
G35 Coupe - Silver- on the floor- you can sit in it- no prices
Mazda 6- Titanium- Eurpoean model so you don't get the full affect.
MazdaSpeed Protege 5 in Orange- look out!!
2003 Viper- on a stand-no entry.
A bunch of otherstuff...

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

For BMW, though, you're partially buying into the name. Their cars are an image statement as much as they are anything else; quality, performance, or otherwise. Other manufacturers (such as Mazda) will have to offer as much or more for much cheaper in order to compete with an image icon like BMW. Now I'm not saying the RX-8 will be a E46 M3 fighter, but it should have an excellent performance to dollar ratio. I'm not talking about just straight line acceleration, but handling, and most importantly, general overall "feel" or driving pleasure of the car. If what info we have about this car's interior is true so far, than it should outclass most other cars in this price segment. As Hurcules mentioned, a Mazdaspeed version of the RX-8 may very well be a M3 fighter.

Another thing about BMW's interior: As high quality as it is, I find that there is little distinction between any of the 3 series interior's (the same could actually be said about the exteriors, as well). Whether it be a 318i or a M3. The differences that are there are too subtle to be worth it. If I were an M3 owner, I'd be a little preturbed that my interior was essentially the same as a 325ci (or identical to a 330 with the "M" package).

Elara

DonG35Miata,

Perhaps your post wasn't intended to be a challenge. I hope it wasn't. I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you. I was making an observation. Just go to your local search engine, and type in things like "lexus sucks" or "I hate infinity," and you'll find consumer reviews, comments, etc. from people who have had problems with their cars. There are problems with EVERY type of car. Some complaints are just more visible than others.

fuz

I think the reason the interiors of all classes of BMW are nearly the same is because they have created such a good minimum level of fit and finish that it is simply too dificult to improve upon. Instead of thinking how similar the M3's interior is to the 318, why not be glad that a car we can afford has the same basic interior of a car that costs over $45k?

BMW is good because they not only have the name, but the hardware to back up their claim to fame, even if it is only reasonably arguable. They do have the highest profit margin in the auto industry, and their sales have increased 22% this year. They must be doing something right.

Hey, if image were nothing, we'd all be drinking sprite, and the SUV horde would not exist.

DonG35Miata

It wasn't a challenge. All cars will have their detracctors, true. I have seen disparinging comments about Lexus and Infiniti on review sites before. However, I have yet to see a Lexus or Infiniti website such as:

www.myaudittsucks.com

www.bmwlemon.com

http://www.mercedes-lemon.com/pages/875600/index.htm

Of particular interest to future RX-8 owners (though I am confident that the RX-8 will be nothing like this)

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/l...te/default.htm

There's a BIG difference between consumer reviews, comments, etc. on edmunds, and someone going out of their way to make an entire website devoted to a brand's poor quality. That there are enough stories to sustain the websites is telling.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

fuz, I agree what you're saying. BMW had to earn their reputation for being a high quality car. However, as a consumer, I just don't believe BMW's are worth the price of entry. And I believe part of your payment goes to buying for the name. The only reason I owned one was because I got a serious discount while in Germany. Also, some other manufacturers, especially the Japanese, will go through great lengths to compete with the likes of BMW or Mercedes. Often offering a car similiar for thousands and thousands less, or offering a loaded models cheaper than a stripped BMW. For everyday use, you cant tell me a Acura CL or RL, nicely equipped, can't do everything a BMW 325 or 330 can. While there may be some serious differences (RWD to be the most profound), your average luxo-driver could never tell.

pelucidor

The service and attitude of the dealership (training) also plays a big part in the 'cost' of the car.

Four years ago back in NJ I bought my first Lexus based on how honest and friendly the salesman was (plus the RX300 was a great product in 1999). I bought my second Lexus (the first IS300 on the East Coast in June 2000) based partly on how I was treated by the dealership - the GM knew me by name and always came out to say hi, my family was treated like royalty, I was invited to special events to test drive the first LS430, SC430, driving events, cocktail parties etc. And of course the cars NEVER gave any problems, servicing was always smooth and new Lexus loaners were always available. This kind of treatment costs money.

However when I looked at BMW (330i) and Mercedes (ML320, SLK) around the same time-frame I was treated like dirt in every dealership and just ended up thinking their cars were hugely overpriced.

Sadly having moved to Houston recently I find the Lexus sales treatment here is not so good and Mercedes/BMW are much better (all three are about equal and behind Infiniti/Acura). If the sales-person at Lexus here had been better (i.e. hadn't lied to me) I would have waited for the GX470 instead of getting an MDX, and probably stayed in the 'family' for life. I am sometimes a little worried about how Mazda will treat me should I get the RX-8. I know Infiniti will be fine if I get a G35....

DonG35Miata

Just shop around for a good Mazda dealer. Mine is absolutely fabulous, a family-owned business where I can call and get the owner on the phone just like that. You don't get the Infiniti perks like the free service loaners, but no complaints. Service is by-the-book... a 30,000 Miata service is $99, unlike the $299 service pack pushed by the local Mazda dealer.

I drive half an hour to get to my Mazda dealer- it's worth it. As I mentioned above, there is a Mazda dealer five minutes from my house I would never do business with. It's owned by a dealership chain and is a total "system house". I would cross the RX-8 off my list before buying from them.

I'm first on the list for an RX-8 at my dealer, BTW!

Grimace

Mazda is like any other brand. There are good dealerships and bad dealerships. Its all about the men and women running the show. I think its a good idea for everyone to check out all the local Mazda dealers before the RX-8 comes in to see how you are treated before you let the salesperson know you are interested in plunking down a lot of $ on a new '8. Its easy to get good treatment with a fistfull of money. The real test is seeing if they treat you with respect even if you have no intentions of buying right there and then.
Infiniti seems to be quite good in this respect, but I have still read a story or two online about poor treatment at their dealerships. Most were good stories though.

Hercules

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

GRIMACE! It's Infinti!

They couldn't get Infinity.com, so they made their name Infinti!

*pet peeve mode off*

Grimace

Whoops! My bad. That's a pet peeve of mine too (which is even worse since I just did it). I fixed it above. :o

Hercules

:D

Elara

I'm guilty of it too- I KNOW it's Infiniti, and yet, I still get it wrong- which is especially sad because I'm always catching it spelled wrong in our ads at work. Sorry.

Grimace

I think me and you should start a support group

Elara

*laugh* I already told my husband I was leaving him for someone on the RX8 boards, so why not add a support group to the mix! And I STILL spelled it wrong just now!!!

That's what I get for secretly logging in at work.....