justinm2

One of the biggest reasons to lease, and also the same reason you don't want to put any more money down than you have to, is that cars are a depreciating asset. Why would you take money out of the bank that is working for you by earning you interest, to sink into a somthing garunteed to lose you money? by leasing, you lock in what the car will be worth at the end of the term, and only pay for the depreciation you are responsible for. Of course there are some downsides to leasing as well. If when you first lease the car, you are driving x amount of miles on average, and then a year later you get a new job that is further from where you live, you might end up going over your miles and paying a penalty. Also, perhaps you lease a car for 36 months, and a year later, someone introduces the "perfect car" for you. you are stuck with your leased car for another 2 years. Of course you can get out of a lease, but it is more difficult than getting out of a purchase. basicaly what i'm saying, don't go for a lease just to give you lower monthly payments. Do all your research, and figure out if a lease will work for you. For some people it's great, but I have also seen a lot of people get burned by them as well.

Cylo

Some interesting info from interest.com: http://www.interest.com/car_loans/au...ng_costs.shtml
They explain some of the scarier pitfalls leasing a vehicle here.

justinm2

Ok, i had a chance to figure out some residuals, and money factors. Keep in mind these are just educated guesses (I don't want anybody motherf*ck*ng me if they turn out to be different)

24 36 39 42 48 51 54 60 months optimistic 63 55 53 52 48 46 45 41
pessimistic 57 48 46 45 42 40 39 35

Right now money factors are ranging from .00220-.00500
of course they depend on credit, and what the economy is doing when the cars get here.

I noticed somebody listed a money factor of somthing like .00139 Rates that low are only going to be offered by manufactueres banks, as special leases (where they buy the rate down from prime). I'm going out on a limb, but i'm going to assume that Mazda won't be offering any incentives on the Rx8 any time in the near future.

Cylo

Here's the lease rate ranges I get with those numbers:
24 $590.98 - $801.34
36 $494.80 - $679.36
39 $479.48 - $657.65
42 $459.43 - $632.74
48 $438.18 - $596.60
51 $429.19 - $583.58
54 $415.97 - $567.46
60 $402.29 - $546.84

justinm2

The numbers will probably end up a little closer to the optimistic side than the pessimistic, but like I said earlier, right now it's just speculation.

Cylo

I guess you are an optimistic person. Well thanks for speculating with me! :D

justinm2

anytime

pelucidor

From experience I would guess that a 36 month, 36k mile lease on a $31k vehicle ($0 down except the usual security + first month + TTL) would be between $450 - $550 including taxes.

I will go further and say most people will get the RX-8 at MSRP, the money factor will be high (5% - 8% - no incentives needed) and the residual will be poor.

I think the residual will be poor to start with because for a brand new car the banks will look at other vehicles' residuals from the same manufacturer to estimate the residual value (e.g. 626, Millenia, Protege, 6 may still be too new) - this is what happened for the G35 when it first came out (residuals were compared with I35). As demand for the car stays high the banks will up the residual values (i.e. used prices) over the first year or so (again what happened to the G35 - residuals increased 3 times in first year as consumers obviously wanted the G35 more than an I35).

Personally I do a large number of miles a year (18k or so) and I don't believe Mazda even has a lease option above 15k per year (its 15c per mile beyond that). So for the first time ever on a new car I will be financing (I also intend to keep this car for 4+ years) - my credit score of 788 will hopefully get me a good rate, maybe around 4.5%.

Cylo

Have any banks release lease yates yet?

(bump)

justinm2

I just checked the may-june books for all the banks we use. No residuals yet.

Chadr

From my experience in an Audi dealership you won't see money factors or residuals in non-mazda dealerships for about 3 weeks after the car is released. Following that line, chances are Ford Credit is going to be the best deal you can get on the 8 for awhile since they are known for low money factors and the like.

One thing that everyone forget with leasing is the tax rightoff if you can claim the car as a business expense. It is a pain but if you are **** about documentation you can right off the vast majority of the car as a business expense (if you own your own business).

After working in a dealership my "best guess" on payment for a 36/36 in PA (9% use tax) on a loaded car is going to be around $530 - $560 a month including taxes.

Hercules

That's obscenely too high.

I have looked at a G35 Coupe and the payments came to be $509 a month with $1000 down. The car was worth $35,000.

Being that the RX-8 is 4 grand cheaper, and that the average lease price drops $20 per thousand, you're looking in the neighborhood of around $420 a month.

It should be in that range, of around $400-450 a month.

MattZ

Totally agree Herc!

I'm leasing my 2002 Audi A4 with a $37,500 MSRP for $440/month.

Granted I got a great deal on it, but I expect the 8 to lease for around $400-$425 for 36 months.

Chadr

We will see. I looked at the 350Z when it came out (probably the closest comparison to the 8 from a price and lease standpoint, comparing Audi to Mazda is not right since Audi is a prestige brand, has higher residuals, and uses subvented rates) and to lease a touring model fully loaded was in the neighborhood of $520 a month including the 9% PA tax.

Since I am talking about a loaded 8 here (33,000 not 31,000) I would expect them to be comparable for awhile. I have no doubts in my mind that the lease payments will drop within 4 months of the cars introduction but the first few are going to pay for the car. Once there is a supply on the market they will lower the money factors and likely raise residuals based on sales and popularity.

justinm2

I work at a mazda dealership, so we should be getting the rates before anybody. Ford Motor credit has nothing to do with Mazda cars. Mazda American credit is a branch of FMC, but with entirely different programs, and run seperatly. I wish we could use FMC, they will buy anybody, Mazda is very picky. Usually unless MAC is running a special lease on a particular vehicle, I can beat their rates with almost any other bank. Being as the vehicle is brand new there is no danger of them having a special lease on the car for some time.

Chadr

Wow I would have figured that Mazdas stuff would run through FMC. Obviously being a Mazda dealership you will have rates first, I meant that in terms of other brand dealerships getting rates for the 8 (like when the 350Z came out it took about 3 weeks for us to rates for it at the Audi dealership).

I think that some people are expecting way too much on the initial release of this car as far as leasing goes because they are used to being able to lease cars like Audis or VWs or BMWs pretty cheaply, but what they don't see behind the scenes is that sales are not great on most of these cars and they are buying down the rates substatially to make attractive lease programs to move more cars. The other thing they don't factor is Audi dealerships at least will all but give the car away if you come in at the end of the month since sales have been down for the last year.

Cylo

I am going to go get this car today, and I have a huge complex trade-in scenario. Wish me luck!

8_wannabe

Boy, there's something fishy here or I'm too obtuse to follow the math. With $5000 down you save $450, right? But when you give up the lease, you don't get the $450 back nor the $4550 delta. You walk away from the deal and the lessor keeps everything. So, in essence you are paying $5000 to save $450, a net loss of $4550. Am I missing something? This would make sense in a purchase, when you sell the car you get back the difference between what you sell it for and what you still owe. In a lease, you get nothing back no matter how much you paid into the deal. The only way this can work to your advantage is if, after the lease, you decide to buy. But if you knew you were gonna buy you wouldn't lease in the first place. It's a very expensive way to get into a car. Where am I wrong on this?

8_wannabe

By the way, earning $450 on a $5000 investment is 9% but it takes 3 years to earn it, meaning something like a 3% annual return. Better than a savings account but not enough to make me jump on the lease bandwagon. I'd rather be accumulating equity in the car! That's where your real return on investment will come. For anything over about a 2-yr period, purchase financially makes more sense than a lease. On the off chance that all 8's start going way above MSRP for new buyers, we will have instant equity in our cars that a lessee wouldn't have. There is a good leave-vs-purchase calculator on the Money section of usatoday.com. It'll do graphs to show you the breakeven point of lease vs buy; on the 8 it was around 24 months.

Hercules

As I'm told... don't put money into a depreciating asset.

pelucidor

Originally posted by Cylo
No Down Payment:
36 Months: 53% Residual $524.99 +tax
total finance charge: $4282.00

$5000 Down Payment:
36 Months: 53% Residual $373.60+tax
total finance charge: $3832.00

So, with $5000 down, you save $450 or 9%! That's better than leaving it in a savings account or putting in the current market

Actually the total cost to you in the first example is $4282.
The total cost to you in the second example is $3832+$5000=$8832

You are losing $4550 more - just as 8_wannabe said.

Cylo

oops! Thanks for clearing that up you two.

mrpink

unfortunately, i haven't followed all of the math in the thread, but let me try to understand the numbers you are presenting.

scenario #1
36 payments @ 524.99/pmt = 18899.64
of which 4282.00 is the finance charge

scenario #2
36 payments @ 373.60/pmt = 13449.60
of which 3832.00 is the finance charge

however in scenario #2 you pay 5000 up front so your total cash outlay is 13449.60 + 5000 = 18449.60

so scenario #2 saves you 18899.64 - 18449.60 = 450.04

leaving 5k in a savings account over 3 years @ 3% (optimistic here), compounded monthly, would get you 5152.21

so assuming you left that 5k in the bank for the duration of the lease term, option #2 would save you 450.04 - (5152.21 - 5000) = 297.83 over a 3 year period.

personally, i'd go with option #1. 300 bucks over 3 years isn't much to shout about and i'd rather have the liquidity of 5k in my bank account.

Cylo

My lease numbers:
Price: 31,100 (msrp)
Term: 48 mos
Miles: 12k
Residual: 52%
Money Factor: .00340
My credit score: 685

eccles

Ouch! You should be able to do better than that - that's the same lousy money factor that Mazda Credit was offering, but with a worse residual! Have you tried contacting Jas?