kreuznach

Been talking to a Honda dealer about an S2000. I'm real dissapointed in the trade-in value of my '8. I offered them 4% over envoice on the Honda and wanted only the average trade-in value per NADA, which on a MT with sport pkge is $23,200 for this area. The countered with $21K and 4% and wouldn't budge. They claim this is what the car will get at "the market". Since when do dealers take near new cars to market? My old 1970 240Z I could understand auctioning off, but an 04 RX8?!?!?!?

I'm still driving the '8.

Sigma

I can go to the dealer right now and pick up a brand new, 0 miles, 2004 RX-8, loaded up withe everything but NAV, for $24K.

The NADA, KBB, and Edmudn rates are all highly and extremely unrealistically inflated right now. The only person who would buy that for $23.2 is a private buyer who doens't know the deals they can get on a brand new one or a private buyer in an area where there doesn't happen to be any '04s left on the lots (and there's not many places that have none at all).

I would consider even $21K a pretty decent deal. They can't realistically sell it for more than that. In fact, for an RX-8 with just the Sport Package, they probably can't even sell it for that and would likely take a loss.

kreuznach

Sigma, that was fast. Were you reading over my shoulder?

Thanks for the thoughts. Just curious, what market do you live in? Could you live in an area where the market is saturated with '8s? We are not here. Only a handful in the Rocky Mtn region in general.

Sigma

Dallas/Fort Worth. Lots of dealers, fair number of 8s -- 149 according to Mazdausa in a radius of less than 50 miles. The '04s are running out though, looks like only a few left in the area.

But that sort of deal isn't uncommon. A look through the Purchasing Forum will find that a new '04 6-Speed RX-8 GT will fetch anywhere from $24-$26K all over the country (although your area could of course be different). '05s are going for invoice just about everywhere -- right at $29K.

Values may of course change for your area. But even for this Zip Code, the Valuation sites are saying that the resale on an '04 is more than I could buy a new one for (provided I could find one, and one that I wanted). It often takes a while for the effect of the rebates and whatnot to really show in the listed value, although it takes effect immediately in the market.

kreuznach

Thanks for the info.

If they had come back with somekind of counter, something higher than their original offer, I would have likely taken it. But they didn't. $21K is real dissappointing.

Squidward

I'm thinking about getting a C6 'Vette.. That would make me a 3 car owner, so I'd get rid of either my Honda civic or my RX-8... just need one for a daily driver.. the civic is paid off ('98).. My 8 is fully loaded (Grand Touring edition) w/34K on the odo. What do you think I can get for it.. I looked up bluebook and they came up with 25K trade-in value. You think that's low or high?

How many miles you have on yours?

kreuznach

i'm feeling like patrick. and that would make the honda dealer mr crab and the s2000 a delicious crabby patty.

according to mr crab, er, i mean, according to the honda dealer $25k is too high.

mine, btw, has 7500 miles on it.

Reactionary

Force them to sell the S2000 at invoice.

msrecant

Don't get caught up in being "insulted" because the dealer doesn't value your 8 enough. Remember that the dealer (or a Carmax) will only give you what they believe they can sell the 8 for plus a small profit, regardless of what the Internet says.

Dealer invoice for your car new looks to be around $25,600 With Mazda's current discounts on new cars, $23,200 may be a bit high for "trade in" on a used MT sport package. I'm not sure the Honda delaer could sell it for $23,200 in today's market (IMHO).

alamike

Since your trading at a Honda dealer, his used car manager probably does not want to try to sell the car. If the used car side the dealer does not want to sell it, new car dealer usually try to hawk the car around local used car lots or they take the car to an auto auction. At the auction, used car managers bid on the car so they can resell it. So if your car is auctioned at least two people probably three need to make some profit on your car. I would try to sell it yourself unless the Honda dealer is giving a great deal on S2000. In my area Honda's always sell at top dollar because one owner has a big chunk of state so there is no competition. So I avoid ever trying to trade with these guys.

Hard 8

I think $21K is an awesome offer, in light of the new 04s going for just a bit more. Seriously. Dealers usually low-ball much worse than that.

Just make sure he's not making it up on the other end, with the S2000 price being too high.

DARKMAZ8

did you lease your 8?

Chasvhill

I paid $23.8k for mine in January of this year. A bunch of 05's sitting beside it led to a motivated dealer. I thought I was doing pretty good, but now I think I might have been able to beat them down a little more.

6MT Touring Package. No other options.

BoilerX8

F--K Honda. They support the IRL. Never will buy one.

StewC625

I'm trying to understand what Boiler's comment has to do with this ... oh by the way, I LOVE the IRL. I hold tickets to Indy and three other races. Nyahhhhhhh

----------------------

Don't forget that the "book retail" price is what you can expect to sell your car for/what the market bears for a RETAILED car - retail deal from a dealer - and that is usually nowhere near the price of the wholesale value - which is the "used car allowance" you get from a dealer when trading - or the "trade in value".

Don't forget - dealers buy at wholesale, sell at retail.

I think $21K for your used car is a perfectly fine price. Most dealers use auction market prices in their area to calculate the trade-in allowance that they will give you. Whether they put it on the auction block or put it on the used lot has nothing to do with you - and what he said was probably absolutely true - the RX-8s similar to yours were getting $21K at the auction.

This, ladies and germs, is exactly why I lease cars - I like new cars too - so I schedule my enjoyment of them for 3 or 4 years and that's it - yes, I don't earn any equity, but I also am not on the hook if the car doesn't hold it's value.

Stew

BlueEyes

I'm lost too. They also support a bunch of other racing series. I would think that's good.

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

I've been offered $18k for my 04 6spd, sport package RX8, and it only had 8100 miles at the time. This was also 3-4 months ago, before the deep discounts on 04's. I also work at said dealership. I was just seeing what I could get, I would never trade it in.....I'm owning this car for life.....

that $21K...I would take it and run if I was you.....

scottmhr1

Your crazy to trade in a car at a dealer, They are in it only for the money they can make. If you use the KBB values correctly then you will do alright in private party values. Too many on here exagerate the deals they get. Many of the 04's they talk about were driven by dealership people and really can't be considered new. If there were that many 04's out there at really cheap prices the 05's would not be selling at all, and they seem to be doing relatively ok in the numbers.

N KC

3 words.......don't do it.

kreuznach

Thanks for the advice. I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge there is on this board ... of course I didn't say how deep

I had to pass on the car. The numbers just weren't there for me. They insisted on sticking to $21k. Truthfully, had they come back with something ... anything I probably would have taken it. I like the car that much.

As for Honda and IRL, sorry StewC. Though I greatly appriciate your words of wisdom regarding retail and trade-in values, I'm with BoilerX8. The IRL is the antichrist. The split between IRL and CART was the worst thing that could happened to American open wheel racing. Tony George can take his "my ball, my bat, my rules" attitude and park it up his paddock. Besides I'm an F1 fan. BAR Honda is going to turn it round and have another great year.

Thanks again all.

dwynne

This is pretty routine. Why would the Honda dealer want an RX-8? The Mazda dealer down the street can't sell them so they don't think they will have better luck. Also, it just is not a good fit for them. They have the S2000 and sort-of the si as their only sports/sporty cars - folks go to the Honda dealership for Odysseys, CR-Vs, Pilots, and some Accords and Civics. So it is not likely someone in the market for an 8 will stumble across it.

So when they are offered a trade they don't want, if they have a good relationship with the dealership that sells that brand they call and see if they want it, if they have a relationship with a used car lot that specializes in "this kind" of car they call and see what they will offer, and finally they just look at the Mannheim or other auction numbers for the area.

In some areas 04 S2000s are sitting waiting for owners, and you can get a new 05 S2000 from certain dealers close to invoice. If you really want one, then I would find one of these dealers and get it at or below invoice then the "pain" of $21k for your car will not be so bad. You could sell it yourself, but you would lose the benefit (if any) of trade-in tax break. Here getting $21k on trade would save me $1,470 in sales tax on the new car - so that is like selling it for $22,470.

I get 23-24mpg commuting to work (stop and go most of the way in), 26-27 out messing around on the backroads, and more than that if cruising on the interstate. I drive it in a "Spirited" manner as the car was intended with lots of V-Tech and trips to 9k RPM. I only drive it if I can put the top down too - which I am sure increases wind resistance - lucky for me my thinning hair does not induce much extra drag :D

I am interested in getting an RX-8, but I am not giving up my S2000 - I just love it. Sold a 'vette convertible and got the S and have not looked back.

Dennis

StewC625

Well, I guess we can respectfully disagree then ... at the time of "the split", CART was turning into a F1 Deux, and Tony wanted to create a new series that glorfied the oval. He did it ... and all the whining babies that cried about it at first have now come back to it, with the exception of Carl Haas. I'd say that was a successful effort ...

BoilerX8

Sorry StewC. The IRL is terrible. The racing sucks and the IRL only exists because of the Yen that Honda and Toyota bring to the table. Funny how all the original IRL teams are gone except for Panther because of the Yen. The whining babies are over in the IRL because of the Yen. Rahal, Penske, Ganassi, Fernandez (Honda bought him last year to kill OWRS right before Long Beach). Wait until Toyota and Honda leave the IRL for NASCAR and see what happens when the Yen is gone...