Smells Fishy
06-10-2004, 04:48 AM
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Smells Fishy
The specs:
MT with GT Pkg, 6 CD, Cargo Net, Spare Tire, Rear Spoiler
MSRP: 31990
Invoice: 29657 (from Edmunds, Kelley ,etc)
Dealer is telling me that they are being charged a "regional adjustment" of $200 on the invoice by Mazda. Thus bringing the "invoice" to 29857 -- no change to the sticker.
Has anyone run into this? I've bought lots of new cars, but not a Mazda before.
MT with GT Pkg, 6 CD, Cargo Net, Spare Tire, Rear Spoiler
MSRP: 31990
Invoice: 29657 (from Edmunds, Kelley ,etc)
Dealer is telling me that they are being charged a "regional adjustment" of $200 on the invoice by Mazda. Thus bringing the "invoice" to 29857 -- no change to the sticker.
Has anyone run into this? I've bought lots of new cars, but not a Mazda before.
06-10-2004, 09:41 PM
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OK, I just ran into something similar where they show a "regional adjustment" on their "invoice" - BUT it's a PC printout, so I don't know if it is a Mazda invoice or a dealer doctored one... and the S-Plan pricing is different than what is posted on Ford's site...
Anyone know what a real Mazda invoice is supposed to look like?? I've only seen Chevrolet & Harley-Davidson invoices, and the Mazda "invoice" I was shown didn't look anything like either of those...
Anyone know what a real Mazda invoice is supposed to look like?? I've only seen Chevrolet & Harley-Davidson invoices, and the Mazda "invoice" I was shown didn't look anything like either of those...
06-11-2004, 07:45 AM
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The "regional adjustment" could be the Mazda advertising charge. Around where I live (Northern VA/DC Metro area) the charge is about that amount. It is supposed to cover a charge that Mazda charges the dealer for its regional advertising (this is non-negotiable). If that is what it is, then it really is legit (or so says "Fight Back"). The regional advertising charge can be as high as 1-2% of base invoice price in some major metropolitan areas.
If that is not it, then you are dead right to be suspicious...
---Dave
If that is not it, then you are dead right to be suspicious...
---Dave
06-11-2004, 05:38 PM
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A little more detail. The 1st dealer mentioned in passing that 1 car had a $100 "regional adj", while another had a $200 adj. Both were RX-8, but the $200 car was received by the dealer more recently.
For other reasons, I went to dealer #2. I never mentioned anything about a "regional adjustment". In trying to negotiate
an "under invoice" price, we could not agree on what invoice was. I was using Kelley and Edmunds. I had the dealer looking at kbb.com comparing against their own invoice. I wanted them to identify the discrepancy.
Finally, they realized all the base/option prices matched, but another line item existed for a "regional adjustment" of $100 on the invoice.
These 2 dealerships are in no way related. As much as I never trust dealers, I'm left believing that this "regional adjustment" is not a dealer hidden charge, but is being imposed by Mazda.
John
For other reasons, I went to dealer #2. I never mentioned anything about a "regional adjustment". In trying to negotiate
an "under invoice" price, we could not agree on what invoice was. I was using Kelley and Edmunds. I had the dealer looking at kbb.com comparing against their own invoice. I wanted them to identify the discrepancy.
Finally, they realized all the base/option prices matched, but another line item existed for a "regional adjustment" of $100 on the invoice.
These 2 dealerships are in no way related. As much as I never trust dealers, I'm left believing that this "regional adjustment" is not a dealer hidden charge, but is being imposed by Mazda.
John
06-11-2004, 10:40 PM
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hmmm...
I'm thinking a Mazda regional advertising charge would make sense. We have some similar type invoice charges from H-D. Never thought of that...
Well, if we're seeing the same thing from a group of dealers, I'm inclined to believe it is a legit charge they pay.
I'm thinking a Mazda regional advertising charge would make sense. We have some similar type invoice charges from H-D. Never thought of that...
Well, if we're seeing the same thing from a group of dealers, I'm inclined to believe it is a legit charge they pay.
06-12-2004, 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by purcellj
A little more detail. The 1st dealer mentioned in passing that 1 car had a $100 "regional adj", while another had a $200 adj. Both were RX-8, but the $200 car was received by the dealer more recently.
For other reasons, I went to dealer #2. I never mentioned anything about a "regional adjustment". In trying to negotiate
an "under invoice" price, we could not agree on what invoice was. I was using Kelley and Edmunds. I had the dealer looking at kbb.com comparing against their own invoice. I wanted them to identify the discrepancy.
Finally, they realized all the base/option prices matched, but another line item existed for a "regional adjustment" of $100 on the invoice.
These 2 dealerships are in no way related. As much as I never trust dealers, I'm left believing that this "regional adjustment" is not a dealer hidden charge, but is being imposed by Mazda.
John
A little more detail. The 1st dealer mentioned in passing that 1 car had a $100 "regional adj", while another had a $200 adj. Both were RX-8, but the $200 car was received by the dealer more recently.
For other reasons, I went to dealer #2. I never mentioned anything about a "regional adjustment". In trying to negotiate
an "under invoice" price, we could not agree on what invoice was. I was using Kelley and Edmunds. I had the dealer looking at kbb.com comparing against their own invoice. I wanted them to identify the discrepancy.
Finally, they realized all the base/option prices matched, but another line item existed for a "regional adjustment" of $100 on the invoice.
These 2 dealerships are in no way related. As much as I never trust dealers, I'm left believing that this "regional adjustment" is not a dealer hidden charge, but is being imposed by Mazda.
John
06-12-2004, 03:12 AM
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I don't know, I don't like this "adjustment". Some dealers of various makes have claimed there were ADP fees on cars at times. ADP stands for "additional dealer profit"... they like to make up reasonable sounding excuses to make more money.
I think if they want to sell you the car, they'll eat that stupid $200 since it's probably some made up arbitrary markup like desination charge is. I mean, if it was really a charge for bringing the car to the lot from the factory, then why would they all be the same no matter the location!? ...save Alaska, which, in that case is generally higher, probably because it DOES cost more to get it there...
I think if they want to sell you the car, they'll eat that stupid $200 since it's probably some made up arbitrary markup like desination charge is. I mean, if it was really a charge for bringing the car to the lot from the factory, then why would they all be the same no matter the location!? ...save Alaska, which, in that case is generally higher, probably because it DOES cost more to get it there...
06-12-2004, 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by TheColonel
I don't know, I don't like this "adjustment". Some dealers of various makes have claimed there were ADP fees on cars at times. ADP stands for "additional dealer profit"... they like to make up reasonable sounding excuses to make more money.
I think if they want to sell you the car, they'll eat that stupid $200 since it's probably some made up arbitrary markup like desination charge is. I mean, if it was really a charge for bringing the car to the lot from the factory, then why would they all be the same no matter the location!? ...save Alaska, which, in that case is generally higher, probably because it DOES cost more to get it there...
I don't know, I don't like this "adjustment". Some dealers of various makes have claimed there were ADP fees on cars at times. ADP stands for "additional dealer profit"... they like to make up reasonable sounding excuses to make more money.
I think if they want to sell you the car, they'll eat that stupid $200 since it's probably some made up arbitrary markup like desination charge is. I mean, if it was really a charge for bringing the car to the lot from the factory, then why would they all be the same no matter the location!? ...save Alaska, which, in that case is generally higher, probably because it DOES cost more to get it there...
As for the regional advertising charges, they are another story. Again, this is not a charge made by the dealer, but rather from Mazda, and it varies depending on the location of the dealer selling the car. I personally think the charge is BS from Mazda, but a dealer definitely has to pay it if they are located in the areas Mazda charges it...
Therefore, while I guess a dealer could "eat" the pass-through charge in order to sell the car, I personally would not ask them to if I knew I had negotiated a below invoice price (below the invoice that had the regional advertising charge included). I would say if you have accomplished that, you most likely have a good deal on the car, with the dealer only getting a fair profit... Now if you have negotiated an *above* invoice price, then the dealer may very well "eat" the cost, because they can afford to with the extra profit they have. :-)
Just my 2 cents...
---Dave
06-12-2004, 10:34 AM
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I know destination is not determined by the dealerships but that doesn't make it a meaningful number. A cousin of mine does a lot of the marketing for Mercedes (the one where the wife beats the monster back into the garage and under the hood of the AMG, and then the guy drives off to work, that was his idea) and I can tell you destination charge is nothing more than an arbitrary number and a marketing tool. It's just another way to post a lower price in advertisements. Does it cost money to deliver cars from the factory to the dealership? Sure it does, but destination charge in no way reflects the actual costs of delivery, because if it did, it would be different from dealership to dealership to account for the distance from the factory.
06-12-2004, 03:27 PM
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The argument that destination charge should vary based on location of dealership is a joke.
1) What happens when a car changes final destination while on the cargo ship?
2) Simple Economics would cause dealerships closer to the entry port to sell more cars because destination costs would be cheaper (all other tings being equal).
Of course destination charge doesn't reflect the actual cost of delivery, but it's not a profit center. I'm sure most Mercedes buyers fret over the destination charge.
"TheColonel" I don't mean this as a personal attack. Dealerships are in business to make money. I have found that the lowest cost deal might not be the best deal. Yes, I try to negotiate a very fair deal. But that is only part of the equation. As an example: I can walk into a dozen local businesses and get preferential treatment (i.e. free stuff, special discounts, no down payment on special orders, etc). I realize many look at dealerships as the devil, and many deserve but not all.
Personally, I went with my closest dealer. As with other dealers, I'll foster a relationship with them, and the benefits will come in the near future.
1) What happens when a car changes final destination while on the cargo ship?
2) Simple Economics would cause dealerships closer to the entry port to sell more cars because destination costs would be cheaper (all other tings being equal).
Of course destination charge doesn't reflect the actual cost of delivery, but it's not a profit center. I'm sure most Mercedes buyers fret over the destination charge.
"TheColonel" I don't mean this as a personal attack. Dealerships are in business to make money. I have found that the lowest cost deal might not be the best deal. Yes, I try to negotiate a very fair deal. But that is only part of the equation. As an example: I can walk into a dozen local businesses and get preferential treatment (i.e. free stuff, special discounts, no down payment on special orders, etc). I realize many look at dealerships as the devil, and many deserve but not all.
Personally, I went with my closest dealer. As with other dealers, I'll foster a relationship with them, and the benefits will come in the near future.
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