Purchased a used rx8 online - undisclosed damage
06-29-2005, 01:21 PM
#26
ShinkaMan #748 SV6P
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Another trick used car dealers do is buy a salvageable wreck from an auction, fix it up and then apply for a clean title in Ohio. For some reason you can get a clean title there if the car is from another state. They can then sell it to some unsuspecting SOB who does not do their homework first.
I know coz I'm the unsuspecting SOB. The car was fixed well so there was no issues other than that fact. However, the scary thing is finding another dealer that will take it as a trade without checking it themselves, I did that too! (not for the 8 though.)
Hope you find a fair resolution for your problem :o
I know coz I'm the unsuspecting SOB. The car was fixed well so there was no issues other than that fact. However, the scary thing is finding another dealer that will take it as a trade without checking it themselves, I did that too! (not for the 8 though.)
Hope you find a fair resolution for your problem :o
06-29-2005, 01:29 PM
#27
ShinkaMan #748 SV6P
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Originally Posted by gateCrasher
Since you work at a dealership , what would happen if someone brought a car in for trade-in , with a clear title, no report of an accident, clean carfax, etc, etc, blah blah, and your appraisal guy noted the blowout marks from the new paint job, the misaligned door/quarterpanel , how much would they scratch off the trade-in price for something like this?
What kind of loss can expect if I get no resolution from the dealership I purchased it from? The body shop guy said the work was pretty well done - not the best, but not the worse either. I'm concerned about loss of value and loss of warranty services. Is the car's warranty still good even though there have been repairs?
/gC
What kind of loss can expect if I get no resolution from the dealership I purchased it from? The body shop guy said the work was pretty well done - not the best, but not the worse either. I'm concerned about loss of value and loss of warranty services. Is the car's warranty still good even though there have been repairs?
/gC
As much as the estimated damage of $5-6k may sound bad, as long as there is no frame damage then you should be fine. The car's overall value should not suffer. Lots of car get into fender bender acciddents requiring replacement of panels here and there and is a non-issue when it comes to trade-ins.
06-29-2005, 03:29 PM
#28
.:. causing mischief
My previous car that I mentioned (the 300M that was in three accidents) didn't suffer any loss in value cuz I sold it myself instead of trading in.
I have no problem with warranty work on the 8 now even though it was in that accident before I had it. Will the service guys know it's been modified if it was fixed at a bodyshop vs a dealership? I'm afraid to mention it in case they aren't aware and then they'll BLACK FLAG my account. Kinda like Elaine's doctor's chart on Seinfeld.
I have no problem with warranty work on the 8 now even though it was in that accident before I had it. Will the service guys know it's been modified if it was fixed at a bodyshop vs a dealership? I'm afraid to mention it in case they aren't aware and then they'll BLACK FLAG my account. Kinda like Elaine's doctor's chart on Seinfeld.
06-29-2005, 04:03 PM
#29
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Sorry you got ripped - but NEVER buy a used car without getting a CarFax report AND an inspection done before you buy! CarFax is flawed, but is a cheap way to check for bad cars so you don't have to pay to have a lot of cars inspected. As you can see, a simple inspection would have revealed the damage long before you purchased the car.
I see stories like this all the time online - someone failed to get an inspection done and learns to regret it. It usually only costs me $100 to $150 to get a complete inspection done - well worth it.
In this case, the CarFax does not spell it out - but the 2 owners and the "suspension repair" would have been red flags to me and I probably would have passed on the car w/o paying for an inspection.
Dennis
I see stories like this all the time online - someone failed to get an inspection done and learns to regret it. It usually only costs me $100 to $150 to get a complete inspection done - well worth it.
In this case, the CarFax does not spell it out - but the 2 owners and the "suspension repair" would have been red flags to me and I probably would have passed on the car w/o paying for an inspection.
Dennis
06-29-2005, 04:34 PM
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Yeah, I've lost complete faith as a consumer. Everyone is trying to **** you. You put your trust into something like carfax/equifax , but in reality, they aren't worth a **** unless you learn to pick through them properly. Also, most of the time, the seller will tell you there's a branded title if it will show up on a carfax report.
/gC
/gC
06-29-2005, 05:07 PM
#33
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I had pretty moderate damage repaired to the rear of my 8 to the tune of almost $10K, and at last check about a month ago still nothing reported to carfax. If someone wants to run it again to see if has changed now that the insurance company paid diminished value then let me know and I'll send my VIN.
06-29-2005, 08:34 PM
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06-29-2005, 08:49 PM
#36
If you can find anything that proves the dealer should have known or if it was so obvious to any mechanic working on the car you can easily sue the dealer for negligence and misrepresentation.
Car dealers are required by law ( in Iowa is the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act )
they are also liable under Motor Vehicle Damage Disclosure Law Code of Iowa (Section 321.69)
since the sale originated in Iowa these laws apply as well as Texas laws and interstate commerce laws.
Car dealers are required by law ( in Iowa is the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act )
( Iowa Section 714.16) Prohibits unfair and deceptive trade practices in the sale, lease, or advertisement of a product or service, and in the solicitation of charitable contributions. Authorizes the Attorney General to issue subpoenas, hold hearings, adopt administrative rules, and file lawsuits to obtain temporary and permanent injunctive relief, consumer reimbursement, costs and attorney fees, and civil penalties up to $40,000 per violation.
Requires the seller of a used car or truck that is less than 10 years old to issue a written disclosure to be the buyer at or before the time of sale stating whether the vehicle incurred more than $5,000.00 in damage from an accident while in the seller's ownership, and whether the seller knows if the vehicle had previously been titled as salvage, flood, or rebuilt in Iowa or in any other state. Requires this disclosure to be on the vehicle title, if available, or on a separate statement. The car cannot be retitled without the issuance of a damage disclosure statement. Requires the new title to list cumulative reported dollar sum of damage reported by all prior owners. Violations of the law are violations of the Code of Iowa Consumer Fraud Act, section 714.16. Those who issue false damage disclosure statements may also be charged criminally.
06-29-2005, 09:02 PM
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depends, we are a pretty big, reliable dealership so we would prob fix the damage...so it depends on how much it would take to make it look like new, not some halfarsed job.
also we have damage disclosures in the state of iowa, did you get one with your car? That would have to have been signed by the dealership saying they had no damage...but the one from the seller, who traded it in the dealership u should be able to get easly from them or the state..i can check on how to if you want, that will tell if there was major damage.
also we have damage disclosures in the state of iowa, did you get one with your car? That would have to have been signed by the dealership saying they had no damage...but the one from the seller, who traded it in the dealership u should be able to get easly from them or the state..i can check on how to if you want, that will tell if there was major damage.
06-29-2005, 09:17 PM
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[QUOTE=They have their own appraisers that inspect cars during trade-in[/QUOTE]
Wrong, I had my car appraised multiple times when I once thought about trading it and neither of them noticed the cracked paint on my bumper.
Wrong, I had my car appraised multiple times when I once thought about trading it and neither of them noticed the cracked paint on my bumper.
06-30-2005, 06:30 AM
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[QUOTE=slllygrl10]
Wrong, I had my car appraised multiple times when I once thought about trading it and neither of them noticed the cracked paint on my bumper.
Did you have major repair done to your car? The rear quarterpanel, the entire bumper, the ground effect, the compression dent near the back door and window area - these were all quite obvious to the body shop mechanics working on the car.
/gC
Originally Posted by They have their own appraisers that inspect cars during trade-in[/QUOTE
Wrong, I had my car appraised multiple times when I once thought about trading it and neither of them noticed the cracked paint on my bumper.
/gC
06-30-2005, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by havunysj
depends, we are a pretty big, reliable dealership so we would prob fix the damage...so it depends on how much it would take to make it look like new, not some halfarsed job.
also we have damage disclosures in the state of iowa, did you get one with your car? That would have to have been signed by the dealership saying they had no damage...but the one from the seller, who traded it in the dealership u should be able to get easly from them or the state..i can check on how to if you want, that will tell if there was major damage.
also we have damage disclosures in the state of iowa, did you get one with your car? That would have to have been signed by the dealership saying they had no damage...but the one from the seller, who traded it in the dealership u should be able to get easly from them or the state..i can check on how to if you want, that will tell if there was major damage.
/gC
06-30-2005, 06:34 AM
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Thanks for this information Aseras. I have not heard back from the dealership so it is a good bet that I should find some representation. Does anyone know if I would need an Iowa lawyer, a Texas lawyer, or both? Or would I be able to present these facts to the Attorney General in Iowa?
/gC
/gC
Originally Posted by Aseras
If you can find anything that proves the dealer should have known or if it was so obvious to any mechanic working on the car you can easily sue the dealer for negligence and misrepresentation.
Car dealers are required by law ( in Iowa is the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act )
they are also liable under Motor Vehicle Damage Disclosure Law Code of Iowa (Section 321.69)
since the sale originated in Iowa these laws apply as well as Texas laws and interstate commerce laws.
Car dealers are required by law ( in Iowa is the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act )
they are also liable under Motor Vehicle Damage Disclosure Law Code of Iowa (Section 321.69)
since the sale originated in Iowa these laws apply as well as Texas laws and interstate commerce laws.
06-30-2005, 11:40 AM
#42
.:. causing mischief
Originally Posted by havunysj
also we have damage disclosures in the state of iowa, did you get one with your car?
06-30-2005, 12:02 PM
#43
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well...bad news
It seems that in iowa, there is no damage disclosure, unless the damage is over 50% of the value. So they could legaly fix the car, and not have to tell you since it wasnt half of the value.
What dealership was it? There might be something you could do depending on that...let me know
It seems that in iowa, there is no damage disclosure, unless the damage is over 50% of the value. So they could legaly fix the car, and not have to tell you since it wasnt half of the value.
What dealership was it? There might be something you could do depending on that...let me know
06-30-2005, 12:48 PM
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Well, I spoke with the GM or some other manager type from the dealership. He would not budge, so it looks like I will need to find outside assistance. I have the bodyshop owner writing me up an estimate for repairs. I also notified ebay , but I doubt their buyer protection is any good. What really sucks is I just left positive feedback to the dealership a couple of days before I found out there was undisclosed damage.
06-30-2005, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by havunysj
well...bad news
It seems that in iowa, there is no damage disclosure, unless the damage is over 50% of the value. So they could legaly fix the car, and not have to tell you since it wasnt half of the value.
What dealership was it? There might be something you could do depending on that...let me know
It seems that in iowa, there is no damage disclosure, unless the damage is over 50% of the value. So they could legaly fix the car, and not have to tell you since it wasnt half of the value.
What dealership was it? There might be something you could do depending on that...let me know
Pat McGrath Chevyland
Cedar Rapids , IA
Contact Rob Armstrong
PH: 319-621-6336
What about what a previous poster found earlier in this thread?
/gC
06-30-2005, 04:00 PM
#47
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yeah, they have a bad rap going for them. I have had a few customers try to trade in cars that were damaged...figured it was them lol
I dunno what to tell you other than....at least your car runs?
I dunno what to tell you other than....at least your car runs?
06-30-2005, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by havunysj
yeah, they have a bad rap going for them. I have had a few customers try to trade in cars that were damaged...figured it was them lol
I dunno what to tell you other than....at least your car runs?
I dunno what to tell you other than....at least your car runs?
07-01-2005, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gateCrasher
No kidding!!??? Wow. So they probably don't even care. Yeah, the car runs, but I think the ODBII interface is hosed so guess what, can't get it inspected.
Selling a car that will not pass emission inspection is against the law, right? So if it does not pass then maybe there is some help there?
Contact fleabay and ask them how to change the feedback you left for the stealer. If nothing else cost them in the wallet.
Dennis
07-01-2005, 11:04 AM
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That's a relief.. Does that mean you have to go to a Mazda dealership to get your inspections now?
I didn't find a way to change the feedback, however, I did find a way to leave additional feedback. I was able to do that, but it is still rated as positive :/
-/gC
I didn't find a way to change the feedback, however, I did find a way to leave additional feedback. I was able to do that, but it is still rated as positive :/
-/gC
Originally Posted by dwynne
I think the 8 has the newer "CAN" version of the OBDII so if you are trying a non-CAN reader on it then that would it explain it not working.
Selling a car that will not pass emission inspection is against the law, right? So if it does not pass then maybe there is some help there?
Contact fleabay and ask them how to change the feedback you left for the stealer. If nothing else cost them in the wallet.
Dennis
Selling a car that will not pass emission inspection is against the law, right? So if it does not pass then maybe there is some help there?
Contact fleabay and ask them how to change the feedback you left for the stealer. If nothing else cost them in the wallet.
Dennis