Purchased a used rx8 online - undisclosed damage
 

Hi,

I'll just copy paste what I already posted to a different forum somewhere else:

I live in Texas.
Purchased the car online via ebay from a dealership in CedarRapids, Iowa.

During communications prior to the purchase, I asked the sales person if there has ever been prior damage to the car (2 times). He told me no, it was nearly brand new. The car only has ~8000 miles on it.

So fast forward to this week , 1 month later. I have the car in the body shop getting a bumper buffed out because someone backed into me in a parking lot. The body shop owner notices that there has been some repair work done to the car already. As we start looking closer, we can tell that there has been major repair - the entire rear , the rear quarter panel, possible the doors on the driver side , the mirror, and there's even misalignment of the front section. The body shop owner estimated the damages in around the 5 or 6k range. Shouldn't this have shown up on carfax? Shouldn't the insurance company have reported this?

To make a long story longer, previous to the purchase I tried to the best of my ability to check this car out. I ran the equifax car check report that ebay provides, I was sent the carfax report from the dealership, and none of this damage showed up or I would not have purchased the car. I got a decent price on the car, but not the kind of price I should have gotten had I known the car was previous wrecked.

My first step was to contact the salesperson and request them to buy the car back from me. I have not heard back from him yet (this was yesterday). Legally, is there anything else I can do? Is there any sort of buyer protection for cases like this? Would I pursue laws in Iowa, or would Texas (my home state) laws protect me in some way?

Thanks,
/gC

Doesn't CarFax have a buy-back policy if their report isn't correct? I'd go after them too. I doubt you're going to get any relief from the dealer, however.

Not if the accident was never reported to police / insurance. There are times when it's just better to pay cash and fix the damage. It's possible the dealer didn’t know or bother to look under the car. Having once worked at a used car lot “ 100 point inspections” mean nothing.

Only if there was a salvage title on the car or some other similarly MAJOR damage and they fail to report that. Otherwise, no - this is very convenient for them because missing a salvage title is next to impossible.
CarFax's guarantee actually means very little - and not all accidents do show up on CarFax. Not necessarily even the ones where police was involved and there was a police report filed.

The dealer had to have known about it. They have their own appraisers that inspect cars during trade-in and when purchasing from an auto auction. I think anyone that works around cars would have noticed the signs of repair. I'm wondering if the title should have probably been branded. The body shop guy told me that the damages were probably ~5k - ~6k - how it was paid out of pocket, I have no idea...seems liek something that substantial would get reported.

I'm in the process of checking the carfax/carcheck guarentee and the ebay one also. I'm pretty sure they have it worked out in fine print where most of the time they won't have to accept responsibility.

/gC

Unless there is frame/stuctural damage, or like Tamas said (thanks for the CarFax info, I've never used it so I didn't know the details!) the car was a salvage (flood, or some other thing) I don't think the dealer is going to agree to do anything, since it doesn't affect the safety of the car- they'll just say you should have had an outside inspector catch it before you agreed to buy it. Though, if it was misrepresented in an eBay auction, you might get some recourse if they're worried about negative feedback.

You get hit from behind, the other driver is very sorry tells you a sob story that their insurance will drop them / rates trough the roof blah blah if this accident gets reported. They tell you he has a cousin that does auto body work cheap can they pay to have your car fixed. Having been in an accident before you know how much of a hassle the claim / repair process can be even if it not your fault. You agree to the deal because it will get your car fixed the fastest. After getting it back you notice the job sucks but what can you do now? You sell the car to a dealer that doesn’t go over the cars that closely if they look ok, happens all the time.

I think thats one of the reasons why my whole family, including uncle/anut/cousins/etc only buy NEW cars.

You might want to check carfax's policy closely, but I bet they're going to give you some bull when you try to file a claim.

I have seen some vehicles that were sold as new that were wrecked before. Always have an experianced person look at the car before you buy.

Back when I was in the car business, I sold a Firebird that leaked water from te T-Tops. Turns out it was wrecked on the line at the factory! GM bought it back. When you purchase a house you pay a inspector $350 to look at the house. Pay some body shop $50 and have them check a vehicle out if you don't know what to look for.

You may however be able to get some help from Carfax. Find out what the old owners name is. Find the county they are from. See if you can find an report from the police on it. When was the last time you ran a carfax on it? If you give me the VIN I will run it for you again. There is a chance that the damage wasn't reported yet.

Sending VIN in a pm right now. Thanks!

CARFAX searched more than 3 billion records from over 5,300 sources and found 14 record(s) for this 2004 MAZDA RX8 (JM1FE173740104685).

Date:
Mileage Reading:
Source:
General Comments:


08/05/2003 NICB
Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original
dealer


08/13/2003 4 Service Facility
Vehicle serviced


09/17/2003 137 Service Facility
Vehicle serviced


11/11/2003 Dealer Inventory
Iowa
Vehicle sold


11/15/2003 Iowa
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Iowa City, IA
Registered as
personal vehicle


11/26/2003 192 Iowa
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Iowa City, IA
Title #52W523119
Title issued or updated
First owner reported


01/19/2004 1,628 Service Facility
Vehicle serviced
Lubed oil and filter changed


04/15/2004 2,548 Service Facility
Vehicle serviced


06/04/2004 6,160 Service Facility
Vehicle serviced
Miscellaneous service performed
Exhaust system serviced
Suspension system serviced
Engine serviced


06/21/2004 6,236 Dealer Inventory
Iowa City, IA
Vehicle offered for sale


10/29/2004 Iowa
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Iowa City, IA
Title #52W552606
Title issued or updated
New owner reported


11/03/2004 7,001 Iowa
Motor Vehicle Dept.
North Liberty, IA
Title #52W552974
Title issued or updated
Loan or lien reported


05/26/2005 Dealer Inventory
Cedar Rapids, IA
Vehicle offered for sale


06/29/2005 Mazda Motor of America, Inc. No recalls open for repair

Detailed Vehicle History Definitions:

First Owner
When the first owner(s) obtains a title from a Department of Motor Vehicles as proof of ownership.

New Owner Reported
When a vehicle is sold to a new owner, the Title must be transferred to the new owner(s) at a Department of Motor Vehicles.

Personal Use
Vehicle was registered by the owner for private or personal use.

What was the date you purchased it?

In November someone purchased it and traded it in 5 months later. Looks fishy!

My best guess is it was wrecked in June of 2004.
06/04/2004
6,160 miles

Service Facility

vehicle serviced
Miscellaneous service performed
Exhaust system serviced
Suspension system serviced
Engine serviced

06/04/2004 6,160 Service Facility
Vehicle serviced
Miscellaneous service performed
Exhaust system serviced
Suspension system serviced
Engine serviced

06/21/2004 6,236 Dealer Inventory
Iowa City, IA
Vehicle offered for sale

Exhaust system serviced, Suspension system serviced ? Then listed for sale two weeks later something stange about that?

There is no way that car had all that done at 6k miles unless it had some serious shit wrong with it.

There was also 800 miles put on it at the dealership.

That's got to be highly illegal what they did. They took a crashed car and "serviced" it. Does it say which dealership did it? Is there any way to tell?

Btw, I found this disclosure form for Iowa:
http://www.dot.state.ia.us/mvd/ovs/s...re%20Statement

And here's Iowa's DOT:
http://www.iowa.gov/state/main/transagencies.html

/gC

This same issue happened with me. I've done a lot of research and here are the conclusions I came to:

1) Carfax states clearly that they will buy back if you can prove an accident was reported to the DMV. Well, I ran one on my old car and it came back spanking clean with no mention of the THREE times someone rearended me (each to the tune of $5K). One even had a ticket issued, so I'm not sure why that wasn't listed.
2) As was said earlier, we should all invest the $50 to have a mechanic check it out. Lesson learned here
3) My 8 was in a major accident at some point..passenger doors side has all been replaced. I noticed it in the overspray on the bottom when waxing it for the first time. Carmax (where I bought it) fixed as much as they could (wanting to get a good review from me) and replaced all the plastic pieces with overspray, the rock guard, kick plate, etc.
4) I have to suck it up and work with what I have. Unless you purchased with a guarantee, you're probably out of luck. And most used cars are sold as-is unless purchased from a dealership.

Sorry for the bad news, I'd spend the cash now to make sure everything was safely repaired. And unless you do some "sneaky" investigating, no one is going to tell you the owner's name that got into the accident in the first place. If you find anything different than what I mentioned above, please let me know if there is any recourse we can take. I couldn't find any.

But I still love my 8, she's fantastic and just has some unseen battle scars!

Well that is funny. If it is less than 50% of the value of the car, you dont have to report it in iowa. I work at a dealership in iowa, and got my 8 from work here. The guy that had it before traded it in and we had to replace the clutch, damaged cross member, and some body work. It only had 7500 miles on it. Maybe some young college kid got it ( since iowa city is the home of the university of iowa) and drove it like crap and it needed work done to it. Everyone seems to think just because they can play grand turismo that they can drive fast in a real car. If you need any help i can see what i can do just let me know

Find a good friend at a mazda dealer. The VISS will show the previous owners names and addresses. Have the service advisor call and find out who wrecked it and in what county. Get a copy of the report and call carfax. Make the bastards pay!

wow that really sucks :(

WANTED:
Looking for a good friend at a Mazda dealer!!

Drug , disease free

regards,
/gC

Since you work at a dealership , what would happen if someone brought a car in for trade-in , with a clear title, no report of an accident, clean carfax, etc, etc, blah blah, and your appraisal guy noted the blowout marks from the new paint job, the misaligned door/quarterpanel , how much would they scratch off the trade-in price for something like this?

What kind of loss can expect if I get no resolution from the dealership I purchased it from? The body shop guy said the work was pretty well done - not the best, but not the worse either. I'm concerned about loss of value and loss of warranty services. Is the car's warranty still good even though there have been repairs?

/gC