mattisax

For those of you out there who are thinking of buying, this might help. I got an e-mail today from CarsDirect.com with a list of February's most oversupplied vehicles and the rx-8 and 350z are 4 and 5. Definitely good leverage for negotiating a deal.

truemagellen

Viking DJ all you do is bitch and moan...are you related to Ike?

SantozRx8

^^haha

VikingDJ

That isn't true. I just speak my mind and the truth, and YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. Here we go again. The same young punk starting s$%t with me. Mods be on patrol. I do know I'm not related to you since I'm not a bias and defensive ***** envy RX8 owner. I tell it like it is, and you can't handle it. DENIAL is not just a river in egypt there Mr. Magellen.

rodrigo67

I always thought that the 8 was overpriced. I love the car, but 34K is alot to spend on a toy (well for most people). Yes, it can take 4 passenger but no one bought this car for a family car, it's a sports car that can handle a family.

Gas milage is not great, but again, sports car. Power is not the best, but it more then makes up for it in other areas, but is it worth 34K for this car? I didn't think so, and apparently many others didn't either with so many left on the lots. I do notice many more selling now in the mid 20's then in the mid 30's, which I think is what this car should have cost in the first place.

Mazda did an excellent job on this car, I just don't think it's worth 34K, just as a M3 isn't worth 50K +. The RX7 was an awesome car that didn't sell because it cost too much, lets hope the same doesn't happen to the 8.

GRT8

Got my 2004 Nordic Green for $24k. I'm lovin' it...

DreRX8

The 350Z is 2 years old so its more understandable--that's rediculous--one thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. There are not 2 year old brand new Zs sitting on the lots. 350Zs were oversupplied when they came out. I see just as many Zs on the lots as I see RX8s. And to the dude talkin bout M3 and RX8 overpriced--thanks for your opinion but it is your opinion. You could argue all day with someone that a 911 is overpriced--its all relative.

rodrigo67

Yes, it is just an opinion, but seeing so many 8's still on lots probably says it may be alot of people's opinions. Yes it is all relative, but would you pay 34K for a ford focus. Even if your loaded and money means nothing to you, it would still be foolish.

It's all relative, but comparing price's and performance to others in this cars class, could you really expect to pay 10K more for a car then what other cars can do for 10K less. Relative. The 911 is not over priced because those other cars which compete with it in performance are running in the same price ranges, making the 911 relatively a good deal.

Bmw's are fantastic cars but are far over price commpared to what they compete with. So, while it may be people's opinions whats expensive and whats not, it sure would be stupid to pay 40K for a dodge neon even if you could afford it...

DreRX8

Right--so seeing so many 350Zs must mean its a lot of peoples opinions, so seeing alot of 911s must be a lot of peoples opinion. Another statement that has no relevance whatsoever. The number of cars on a lot has a very loose correlation to what people think of the car. The RX8 still outsold the Z so far in the past 12 months. I respect what you are saying but please use some tangible evidence for assertions in stead of empty talk.

Rotario

By your logic, Ford, Chrysler, and GM have huge, major oversupplies on their pickup trucks, as every time I go by one of their lots, there are TONS of trucks sitting there. Ditto for Lexus ES's. And again for Toyota Camry's. And Chevy Cavaliers. Add in the Nissan Altima. Oh, and don't forget the Doidge Stratus. Should I go on?

Bill

DreRX8

Actually they were offering rediculous rebates on 350Zs around here. You can get a new one for $25K + ttl. And I see a lot full of 350Zs everyday. Do a search on the forum--someone has a link that says that the RX8 outsold the Z. Hell they have already sold 100,000 worldwide, Road and Track even had a blurb with the sales numbers. It is apparent that you have not done any research on the numbers at all.

VikingDJ

I don't doubt that it's selling well, because of the incredible deals that have been taking place for a long time. Mazda really wanted to get the rotary out to a mass, and they did just that. It's probably just a question of getting over zealous, and someone at Mazda mis-calculated just how well this car was selling, so it became overproduced. As for research, I found that many things to be very subjective. Example: Money Magazine's rating the RX8 as the #2 car in holding it's value in both 2004 and 2005. So far they are wrong. Also, I have yet to see a factual comparison on the 2003 350z vs the 2004 rx8, which to me is a better comparison, because that is first year of production. Naturally production and sales fall off fast after first year, and the overall sales on the 05 rx8 are going to be much less then the 04. It seems to me that Mazda is ready to take a financial hit on rx8, because their goal is to get this car out there as much as possible, to give it a solid future, and possibly to try and have more of them on road then the 350z. That is my opinion, not a fact. I'm just not the type of person to believe everything I read. Call me a huge skeptic, but I just cannot look at pure numbers when I see many 04 rx8s left in the middlle of 2005. Something just doesn't seem right, but you don't have to agree, I am purely stating my opinion, as are you.

Ike

The link is for Canada, where they sell a few thousand RX-8s a year, in the US the 350Z sells better than the RX-8 I looked at a 350Z last year and they would not go lower than 500 below MSRP (no rebates or special financing were available). I wouldn't have even replied to this thread if I hadn't seen it after replying to the auotrader thread, but I found 2 dealers with 14 and 15 04 RX-8s, and other two with 8 and 9 04 RX-8s, that's not a good thing unless you want to buy one for really cheap. In contrast I found some dealers with some 04 350Zs left, but the largest quantity was 3.

dwynne

All this stuff is anounced in press releases, with a little searching you can find it.

For example, this is what Nissan is reporting for the 350z as of Feb 2005:

Car Feb 05 Feb 04 % change YTD 05 YTD 04 % change
350Z 2,138 2,406 -11.1 3,866 4,837 -16.7


And Mazda for the same period:


RX8 1,407 1,865 -24.6% 2,428 3,654 -33.6

So through the first 2 months of this year the Z outsold the 8 by 1438 units, which is even larger difference than the first 2 months of last year when it was 1183. Even with all the promo money and folks buying the left over 04 cars, the YTD and FEB numbers are worse than last year when it was harder to get a deal (down nearly 25% even with the deals).

I can go find the end of year numbers, but I am thinking they show the same trends.

The 8 is a super car for what it is, but like my S2000 it is not for everyone and it would appear that Mazda has made too many and is having trouble selling them. That does not bode well for future resale values. The S was available in very limited numbers for the first few years - or at least the demand was >= supply and they held value very well. That is no longer the case, and one local Honda dealer that would NEVER deal on an S now has 3-4 on the lot including a left-over 04.

I could care less what money magazine or Kipplinger's or anyone else prodicts about resale value. They don't know - as long as sales of the 8 slide Mazda will either have to cut production (which will help resale value) or discount the cars (which will hurt). My guess is a little of both, but the car is not a "must have" for folks and just is not going to retain top value I don't feel. Now my local dealer will give me $6000 off a new 04, but thinks the prices the used one on the lot (04, GT, 6mt, 12k miles) at nearly $25k? What is up with that?

Those same mags said my '00 C5 'vette convertible was a winner in resale too, then about the time I am selling mine GM starts giving $5000+ off and doing 0.0% for 60 months. I had to deeply discount mint to get rid of it.

Dennis

dwynne

Here are the year end numbers for the 8:


Dec 04 Dec 03 Change YTD 04 YTD 03 Change
RX8 1,353 2,079 -34.9% 23,690 12,346 91.9%


Here are the year end number for the Z:

350Z 2,301 2,124 4.3 30,690 36,728 -16.7


Keep in mind these are calendar year numbers - just how many 8s and zs of any model year were sold in the year 2004.

So Z outsold the 8 by 24,382 units in 2003 and 7000 units in 2004.


These are "North American" numbers so I assume this include US and Canadian sales.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/313751.html

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/313838.html

So there are the real numbers, make of them what you will :D

Dennis

VikingDJ

You just did a royal schooling on those arguing with what I said earlier. THANKS MAN!!

cratica

VikingDJ said ..."

I believe that's a case of wanting the new cars GONE. Dealers are not offering deals on used when news are still available. They want full used value, and you will not see any kind of sweet deal until the 04 is completely gone from their lot"


That's not true at all. I just purchased an 04 with 9k miles from a Porsche Dealership who was selling it for the new mazda dealership down the road (same ownership). I used the $6K off new as my bargaining chip and got it for $6K off what they wanted for the used RX-8. Car is titanium 04, 6 speed, Gran Touring, nav, perfect cond. I bought it for $23K. Sticker (still in car) was $33,100.

The salesman said they just can't move the rx-8's new or used, so they are taking huge losses. He said they lost $2,200 on the used one they sold me. (He said they paid $25,200 for it.

dwynne

You could have gotten that same car NEW for $26k or so. To me, getting the full warranty for a new car would be worth the extra $3k. Get to break it in right, know there was no abuse, and maximum warranty. But that is just me....

Dennis

VikingDJ

I will respectfully disagree. Same ownership or not, it's still a different dealership, so that means nothing. Them getting rid of a used RX8 is MUCH different then getting rid of a used one ar a Mazda dealership. BTW, you didn't get that great of a deal on the used RX8. About 1500-2k less, and that is all you saved, further proving what I stated has truth to it, and is not wrong. A 33k msrp RX8 here sells for 25k as a new leftover. It's not going to be true in all cases, but I spoke that from my experience in buying my STI. They wanted the last 04 gone, and refused to budge on the identical 04 with 10k miles. You had leverage, and dealership wised up to fact that you can walk to other place, buy a new one, and the Porsche guy loses a sale to competition. Yes I said competition. Around here one person owns like almost every dar dealer in area. However, they COMPETE with each other. I'm going to disagree based on where I live and my experience but will give you benefit of doubt that it's different where you live. Good day!!

cratica

Actually, I saved $4100 plus the additional taxes and fees off the new car. They are selling them for $6000 off new here, not $7100 off new. Maybe in your area they are $7100 off new. Anyone get that much of a cut off new? I would like to know what dealership.

The reason I purchased this car used is because I paid cash and that was all I really wanted to comfortably spend. If I purchased on credit I may have just bought new since it's not too much terribly more on a monthly basis.

To say purchasing a nearly brand new car in perfect condition for $23k when it sold new for $33,100 was NOT a good deal is really a sad state of affairs for this car in particular. So if you believe it wasn't a good deal, that is just saying this car is not doing well at all in terms of resale, certainly far below average. I still believe it was a good deal, at least it was for me. I purchased my Viper 2.5 years ago and sold it last week for the EXACT same amount, to the dollar.

As far as buying a used car on a car lot when they are trying to sell new cars of the same type. I go through cars like most people go through toilet paper! Ok, maybe not that often, but I have bought and sold many many cars through the years and I can tell you without a doubt, throughout this great country that a dealership will DEAL on any car on their lot, new or used with very few exceptions (first elise, first c6, first Viper, first blah blah blah). Certainly, if you are novice or naive, you may not feel this way. If you want a particular used car on the lot and tell them that you would also buy a new car, they are going to pressure you for the new car if THEY want to sell the new car more. If you hold your ground and work them instead of allowing them to work you, you will have much better odds of getting the deal you want. They want to move cars, period. They may have incentives to move certain ones, but they would rather move any car than lose you as a customer. Of course if you are a pushover, they will sell you whatever they want to sell that day, regardless of what you want. Not too many people are that easy as most people are much wiser these days, but it still happens.

MI_FamilyMan

I think the bottom line here is that any car with a rotary engine is always going to be a niche vehicle. I would think that trade-in to a dealer would yield a lot less money than in a private sale for the 8s.

dwynne

$23k in CASH sure beats any price on new car that involves having to finance the car :D

If there were no left over 04s in your area or the dealers would not deal as deep, then your difference would be more. It is not hard to find dealers who will, but you would have to travel a bit to get the car or pay to have it shipped. Either one would eating into the savings and get the price closer to the local price.

Dennis