jwitzer

Not sure if this is the right forum for this kind of thing, but I can throw in the obligatory

"I just got my RX-8!"

comment to bring it back on topic.



I'm trying to figure out if this is worth bitching to Mazda NA over. I'm usually not a whiner, but this pissed me off...

I wanted a Titatium Gray 6-speed RX-8 GT without the appearance package or rear spoiler but with just about everything else (nav, 6 disk CD, door trim, fender strakes, trunk stuff). Apparently this was not a combination in everyone's inventory but a car was found that could be equpped as I wanted.

The dealership would need to add the 6 disk CD, the strakes, sills, and trunk stuff. I knew that the MazdaSpeed wing I wanted would be an add-on.

Obviously the MSRP (sticker price) of the car didn't include these add-ons but the dealer refused to adjust the MSRP used in calculating the lease to accurately reflect the sticker price of the car as delivered.

This made a big difference in the financing as I was effectively paying fair use (65%) of the car but 100% of the options. (Now, who thinks the dealer won't adjust the price of the car up to include these completely paid-for options when they sell it used in 2 years? Hands? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?)

I understand how the MazdaSpeed rear spoiler is entirely my responsibility, but shouldn't this car as optioned "cost" as much as another identical car that came off the boat with the exact same options ask I've ordered? Aren't I effectively paying extra because the local dealerships didn't want to do a wider inventory search?

Oh, and as a kicker, I picked up the car last Saturday (without the options as the are on order) with an agreement from the dealership that the option parts would be ordered on Monday for Wednesday delivery (or rushed to ensure Thursday delivery latest) so I could have them installed (again, at MY cost) on Friday (tomorrow) before I lose all ability to drive all the way over there as I start a new job on Monday.

The dealership agreed and even offered a "loaner car" so I wouldn't have to wait all day for the installation. I thought this was nice of them and accepted their offer. (Who wants to sit in a dealership for 8 hours?) Of course, now that "most" of the parts are in and they'd like the car tomorrow ("Hey, whatever isn't in by then, you can always just come back, right?"), they have conveniently forgotten about the loaner car and tried to slip in a rental fee as additional insult.

Maybe I just needed to vent, but I'd also like to put in a big annoyance "avoid" advice for Ferman Mazda on Florida Ave in Tampa and to Richie Taylor who is driving this whole mess after taking his commission for simply filling out two forms and getting me a bottle of water. I asked no questions, had a pre-negotiated (very generous) price on the car, and requested that he skip the delivery tour as the baby was getting fussy. Sweet deal for him, no?

gsdev

Wait till this thread get to a page or two then print it out and send it to them. NO MEMBER OF THE RX-8 CLUB WILL EVER BUY FROM FERMAN MADA. lol maybe you will get a few free oil changes to retract.

jwitzer

But I don't want to threaten them, especially if I'm the one off base here. I'd like to know if the group thinks my concerns are founded.

I'm just sensing that tomorrow will be a very trying day as I sit at the dealership watching 8 hours of Oprah! and reading last year's magazines, wasting a day off.

They won't even shuttle me home (of course I've already complained about how long the drive is).

I'm also expecting to drive home without half the stuff and will have to take a day off from the new job (always a good move) to get things finished.

My *****, their vise.

Perhaps I'll follow the salesdroid around all day. Stare at him through the glass, follow him into the men's room, shake my head vehemently when he talks to customers. Get him to not want me there as much as I don't want to be there. Maybe that'll get him off the stick.

mysql101

Richie isn't answering my phone calls to him, so I'm no longer going to be refering him any business.

I'm not sure what your problem is with Ferman... when I bought mine, I also had the MS spoiler installed, the price I paid for, was the price I financed for. I put no money down, so the price paid was car + ms spoiler.

Are they not including the ms spoiler and your other options on the finance? Are you financing through the dealership?

Have you tried getting preapproved elsewhere?

jwitzer

Jason,

Lease vs. purchase.

You bought and are paying for the whole car, the whole MS spoiler, and 100% of the options on the car (whether the car came off the ship that way).

I leased and am paying for 65% of the car and the options it had on it when it came of the ship (for the 2 years I use it), the whole MS spoiler, and 100% of the Mazda options the dealership is adding to the car (though I should be paying 65% for using them for 2 years).

I can take the spoiler off the car when I turn it in (I bought it, it's mine), but I can't take the CD player out, yet I'm paying for all if it!

mysql101

actually you can take the cd player out

but I'm not sure what use it would be to you.

Why is ferman not pricing the car properly for you?

SpinninAgain!

Why are you leasing through this dealer's finance dept. if you don't like their lease?

It's a free market. They're free to offer you any lease they choose. You're free to accept it or not.

Shop for the car and/or the financing elsewhere if you don't like the deal. Titanium RX-8's and auto leases are not hard to find. Complaining here won't save you a nickel.

Air Force RX8

I believe the key word here was LEASE. This is the source of all the problems. If you are not paying cash for the add-ons then you are financing them in the lease, which then becomes a part of the vehicle as leased and not a modification. You have the right to return it to stock if you add on items that are not part of the lease agreement.

Example: If I put in a new stereo after I take delivery then I have the right to remove it before termination. I think you are getting wrapped around the idea that these add-ons are not part of the lease when they are. If you did not pay cash for them, and that would be in addition to any required money down by the leasing company, then they belong to the leasing company. If you financed this car then you would mark up the selling price accordingly. Also, the leasing company can charge/fine you at termination for any unapproved modifications you make.

I have leased before and this is one of the many reasons I will never lease again.

Air Force RX8

Actually you can't take the spoiler unless you 1. paid cash for it and 2. have the holes in the trunk filled in and painted by a body shop otherwise you will be charged for unfair wear/damage at termination. Also, you can keep the CD player as long as it is paid for up front and not part of the lease and you have the stock radio to replace it with.

SpinninAgain!

Good point Air Force RX8. An individual consumer needs a specific reason to lease an automobile. All too often that reason boils down to, "It's the only way I could afford the payments.", which is the WRONG reason to lease.

I'm not saying or implying that's the case here, since we don't know why jwitzer chose to lease. But even if he has a valid reason (business use? tax situation? intention to change cars every two years and the income to do so?), there's no reason to bitch about the terms here. Just go elsewhere for the lease. Simple.

jwitzer

All good arguments, but not news.

The options are not prepaid. Meaning, I did not drop 4 grand to get them, and they are being paid off over the term of the lease, but not as a depreciated asset. Therefore, at the end of the lease, I have paid for them in totum and for their installation. They were financed in the lease, but as purchased (100%), not as leased (100% minus residual) items.

Um, which is my point. I'd rather have them leased and let Mazda keep them. Otherwise, I'll keep them simply on principle.

I understand that the car must be in saleable condition and 4 quarter-inch holes in the rear deck do consitute unreasonable wear and tear.

The lease is from Mazda. Their terms were best, overall, swayed mightily by the $3500 cap cost reduction on a 24 month term. In this case, the dealer was claiming that these rules were Mazda's, but couldn't prove it. Thus my inclination to discuss this with Mazda NA.

As it stands, if Air Force RX8 is correct that the upgrades are part of the lease and do not belong to me, then I'm leasing 2 CD players (the one that was in the car and the 6 disk option), 2 sets of sill plates, etc, etc. If I'm paying for them, then I need to come home with both sets tomorrow, right?

Leasing is usually evil, in my book, but I had reasons this time:

1. I only want this car for 2 years as it does not meet my performance needs but will be fun until I recover from a 9/11 related financial setback.

2. Leasing does not allow me to modify the car in any substantial way without throwing money away. See the RX-7 if you want to know my usual M.O.

3. Did I mention the $3500?

4. In 2 years I can be out of the minivan (2003 Honda Odyssey - "the sports car of minivans") and I want to "reassess my automotive portfolio" without being stuck upside down in a 4 or 5 year loan.

Titanium GT RX-8s without appearance packages or rear spoilers (the holes are different) are hard to find within Florida. Even Mazda NA showed that. But there has got to be one much closer to my request in the US. Why do I have to pay 65% more for the use of the same options as the person who bought that Titanium GT RX-8 with the 6 disk CD and no appearance package or rear spoiler off the showroom floor in Peoria or the Blue GT RX-8 with the same options?

Me no unnerstand!

jwitzer

I'm also pissed that they've pulled the promised loaner car. Almost makes me want to return the car and buy it through another dealership.

I hate dishonesty and lack of integrity.

gt1

From what I can tell Titanium with Navi (and especially Black/red interior) is really hard to come by (I am not talking about old VINs I am sure there are a few demo cars out there)
Did you get the Black/red interior too? I am looking for one, but it looks like I am 'stuck' with red or black exterior.... How about VIN#, is it a newer car?
I don't know about the add on and leasing question but I think I am not going to lease because of these and other complications...
Sorry I wasn't more helpful

gt1

Yup I have avoided many dealers that tried some tricks, if they can't be straight up front there is no way they are going to be that way later...
I am really glad I avoided Ferman, thank you for the warning...

Air Force RX8

Jwit,

It is my experience, and I am no expert so this is my opinion, then the situation you describe means that you are not paying the difference between sticker at time of lease and the added items rather full list for all items, am I correct? If you indeed are paying full sticker for the original options and full price for the added options then yes you are getting screwed. If that is the case then you should demand IN WRITING that the options added are yours to keep upon termination or that you recoup these costs on the residual especially if you do not keep the added options post termination. Also, if the loaner car or anything else was not spelled out in the Owed to customer form then you can count on getting screwed again just like the loaner car. Threaten to sue them using Cohen, Jayson, Foster, and Skafidas that will get their attention. My mother works for Mr. Cohen, you might recognize the Cohen name he is the attorney for the Eisenbergs, sued the pants off Healthsouth, etc...

I really believe that all of the Ferman dealerships have lost the customer friendliness as they had before Mr. Ferman passed away and the dealership became his kids'. My late grandfather was good friends with Mr. Ferman before they died and I got a great deal on a 1996 Lumina in 1995. Since early 2000 the quality of the salespersonnel and managers have gone to the crapper. I believe Mr. Ferman would be ashamed of this were he alive today. Another reason I did not buy my 8 through them. Best of luck to you.

jwitzer

gt1,

The car has a black interior and was built in Feb, 2004.


Air Force RX8,

I will pay for the upgrades in full and for 45% (100% minus 65% residual) of the parts they replaced (now in my trunk).

The upgrades will be mine.

The loaner was not on the WE OWE sheet (of course) and since dealerships are not in the business of integrity, I guess I couldn't count on them.

On a positive note, they were able to complete the installation of the parts that DID come in within 4 hours and provided as much Oprah!, Wayne Brady, donuts, coffee, water, and soda as I could consume. The service rep was relatively friendly and informative. But the service manager seemed to have a big damn chip on his shoulder and vehemently reiterated the salesdroids "no loaner!" comment without me even requesting one.

The work is done and the 2 parts not there do not require install (cargo tray, cargo carrier) though I suspect they won't mail the damned things to me, requiring another trip.

Are those the same Eisenbergs who had been accused for the disappearance of their own baby daughter? If so, then I used to work (at Origin Technology in Business) with their best friend/neighbor. Whatever became of that story? I have DirecTV, thus New York local news.

Thanks all, thread dead as far as I'm concerned. I'll contact Mazda NA to confirm that the lease screwing is theirs and not a Ferman lie and proceed according to their answer.

Air Force RX8

Yes the very same Eisenbergs. They are now suing the HCSD and whoever else they can get their hands on and prove some shred of liability for them only pursuing the parents and noone else.

So it sounds like they explained it wrong in the beginning or you misunderstood. Does not sound too off from what is reasonable. 45% for depreciation of the assets to be re-installed seems to be reasonable to me.

jwitzer

Not arguing with the residual percentage. I just wanted the options installed on the car and included in the lease as residualizable costs.

In other words, I only wanted to pay for the percentage of the options that I was going to use (45%) and let Mazda have them back at the end of the lease instead of paying for 100% of the options and being able to store them in my attic at the end of the lease.

There have to be hundreds of cars out there optioned as I requested, instead of finding them, the local dealers seem to take the easy way out and assemble them from the parts department. On a purchase, this is fine and dandy (ignoring the installation charges, of course), but on a lease, this can be painfull as your monthly payment for each option is 222% of what it should be (of course you own the part at the end).

Air Force RX8

I understand you point. The problem with that is the dealeship loses money on that. The only way I se for you to get that kind of deal is to order a car with what you want, but with the new model year kiss incentives goodbye.

With the 05s rolling in there are less cars out there than it may seem. You have to consider the cost involved for the dealership to locate and ship (depending on how far away they had to go for the car) and whether or not you would be willing to incur those costs. With a lease the dealer isn't going to go too far out of their way in my opinion because there are no "extra" benefits for them to pick up, remember this is a business and one where saving the customer money is not high on the priority list.

Through finance deals there are usually kickbacks the dealers get from banks for steering loans their way, not so for leasing through Mazda. Most people feel they got screwed after buying a car because it is expected now. I went in knowing that I was getting a first run RX-8 and a little below sticker was a great deal at the time. Would I accept that now, no way. I paid extra willingly to have a first run vehicle because I intend to keep it for a very long time.

fugg

RETURN FROM THE DEAD.

heh... I went to Ferman Mazda to shop around for a RX8. Theres 2 locations... Brandon, and some place else.

Ended up buying one from out of town.

Revvittupp

Now that you bring this back from the dead....

The dealership[ did nothing wrong here. The person complainign was 100% in the wrong. Yoiu can't amnipulate a vehicles MSRP from which to base a residual on, without approved work orders, from an approved Mazda Accessory list. In that case yoiu still do not add the cost of the item, uncluding labor, but a constant value they provide is added to the residual. Often times only major options such as leather, sunroof and running boards are able to be residualized. Add on CD changers are often a $200 add to residual.

Dealerships don't lease the cars, they arrange it, as a third party, between You and Mazda USA. It's their car and their terms. The dealership doesn't get to sell the car later, as they don't own it. Typically when Mazda sells the cars at auction, options such as are listed provide little to no increase in value.