b_r

So I leased my 8 last week and instead of 12K miles (like it should have been), they had 15k miles written on the agreement. I signed the agreement, made payment, now I have my car.

Now the dealer wants me to sign a different agreement with the 12K miles because the bank won't fund the dealership. It sounds like the poor guy is in hot water, but...

The contract is signed. It's a done deal.

What would happen if I decided to call them and say that I want something changed on the agreement? Do you think they would redo it?

What do you guys think? Can I tell the dealer that I'm sorry, but they should have read their own fine print?

expo1

How long is the lease and what is the penalty for going over the miles?
For example if it’s a two year lease and .10 a mile over “15,000” you want $600 in goods or service PLUS something for the aggravation.
( 6,000 lost miles X .10) = $600.00

dmp

Agreed - don't re-sign.

czr

iTrader: (3)

Yea what everyone said. Don't settle for anything else. Just make sure to keep the money around if you think you are going to return the car after the lease. If you go over mileage you will be raped at the end. You might need that money for new tires and other bs when they go through your car with a fine tooth comb.

musicola

I would submit that the right thing to do is re-sign. Maybe with a little compensation for your trouble. You negotiated honestly for the deal you got, I assume, and you should be willing to stand up and live with it.

I find it disappointing that whenever a business makes an HONEST mistake, and they ask a customer to help rectify things, people are always jumping in with the "screw them" attitude. That's an attitude with no integrity.

If they accidentally wrote it for 10,000 instead of 12,000, and you signed it and were legally stuck with it, you'd want them to change it, that's for sure.

BlueEyes

What do they mean the bank won't fund the dealership? You'll have to exuse my lack of lease knowledge.

dwynne

I think I would tell them that I was not inclined to sign again - but it is really not that big a deal.

Sometimes, they give you a copy the lease contract that THEY HAVE NOT SIGNED when you leave. Then once it is funded you will get a "Real" copy in the mail that they have signed. If this is your case, then you might have to go back and re-sign in order to get a legit contract.

For sure, I have talked to lots of folks who signed really bad lease deals and you know the dealer is not going to let them out of it because they made a mistake and didn't look at it carefully - or ask someone to help them before they signed.

What is your residual and what is your MSRP? 12k VS 15 is normally only 1% or 2% lower residual on a 3 year lease.

For example, if your car has a $32,000 MSRP and the 12k/3yr residual is 49% ($15,680) and 15k/3yr residual might be 47% ($15,040). The difference is really not that much, and if you gave me your money factor and cap cost I could tell you the difference. This would be maybe $10 a month difference on a $0 down lease with a $2k discount - so not that much.

What is your over miles charge? Say it is $0.15 per mile. Tell the dealer that if they pay you for the missings miles (3 years x 3,000 miles per year x $0.15 = $1,350) that you will be glad to re-sign the contract. Since they, if effect offered you 9,000 free miles you signed up. At the end of the lease, if you turn the car in with 45k miles rather than 36k this would be the charge to you. So the dealer should give you this money now, so you will have it and the end of the lease.

If they will not go for cash, then accessories or Mazda maintenance agreement or something.

My reaction would depend on if I had a lease agreement that the dealer signed and how many other dealers are around you can go to if you really cheeze this one off.

Note that this is "principle of the thing" deal - your payment would not change and if you were not going to drive the car > 36k in 3 years then no effect on your wallet at turn in either.

Dennis

dmp

...ask them for $1350 in gas cards.

czr

iTrader: (3)

But would they? hmm...

dmp

When was the last time your credit card company didn't charge you a late fee because you made an 'honest mistake' and forgot to mail your payment?

It's 'us' vs. 'them' in business.

BlueEyes

I remember I worked at a marine store. A gentleman came in bought some goods on his debit card and when I punched in the total I put 10.41 instead of 100.41. I noticed this as the customer was jumping in his car, ran out and asked politely for him to come back in to fix it. He said he noticed and I shouldn't have screwed up. Being that we were the largest and best marine store around he had to come back. He was going on a trip with his family and really needed a new gps system. We had 2 in stock of the model he wanted, no wait, none in stock and they wouldn't be in before he leaves unless we rushed the order, which would cost him 90 bucks. Plus I treated him like **** from then on.

GotZoom

All the time you spend haggling with the dealer. Then waiting for the Sales Manager, F&I, etc. That took a lot of time away from your job and you life.

You should be reimbursed something for the first time you were there, and then having to take more time to go back because they got it wrong.

You are doing them a favor by returning and signing the new contract.

That should be worth something.

PUR NRG

On one hand, character is what you do in the dark. On the other, do unto them as they do unto you. Ethics (for me at least) is balancing the two.

It's strange but I have been undercharged/overpayed more times at checkout lines than I have been overcharged/underpayed. Regardless of the dollar amount if I notice, I always tell the cashier, "Excuse me, but you made a mistake" and proceed to pay the correct amount. My rationale is this: when I put the item in my basket I knew its price and was prepared to pay that. Just because the cashier made a mistake and undercharged me, or gave too much change back, doesn't negate my willingness to pay the correct amount.

This situation is similar, but the other rule applies as well. Did they try to jerk you around or make a bad deal? If they did I'd be more inclined to tell them "tough nuts", but if they treated you fairly and were up front then I'd willing sign the correct lease--especially since I knew it should have been 12k miles/year.
________
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musicola

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. As a business owner I am honest and fair and I would expect my customers to act the same way.

Please read the "marine store" post a couple down from yours -- that's the sort of example I'm talking about. Forgetting to mail a credit card payment is apples to oranges.

I'm all for a little compensation for his trouble, but not this outrageous $600-1000 stuff.

goforwand

Bank of America...we were moving, misplaced the statement and forgot all about it. Called CS, removed the late fee, and interest (we pay off our balance monthly)

So, it CAN happen (just maybe not the majority of the time)

dmp

I read the Marine Store post - and if I were the customer, I'd do the right thing. That's a typographical error on the part of the cahsier. I have pointed out when I've been under-charged, AND if I get an extra burger in my drive-thru order, I offer to give it back.

What we're talking of here is something like this:

Dealer issues a contract, 'Buyer' agrees in good faith to execute the contract. Later, Dealer decides they can't be out the money (terms) they agreed to. It's like 'sellers remorse' here...



Maybe they can find another 'bank' who WILL sign off on 15K/year.

dmp

Indeed.

PUR NRG

You realize this is total apples and oranges, right? You're comparing your experience where a dealer is trying a well-known tactic to up the price to a different dealer who probably made an honest mistake in the paperwork. I agree that in your case declining to sign a new agreement and telling them to take the car back is the correct thing to do, but trying to extend that example to apply here is rediculous.

BlueEyes

2 5
maybe the dude has dyslexia!! you wouldn't take advantage of someones handicap would you!!! :p

b_r

The specifics are this: When we negotiated it was at the 12K mileage limit at .18/mile over.

On my signed (both by me and the dealership) copies of the lease agreement and the the purchase agreement they have 15k limit at .18/mile over.

I had them fax me the lease agreement the night before I signed so I could go over it with a fine tooth comb. I saw the 15K, and we had been negotiating so much all I could figure was that they sweetened the pot for me.

I would like to remind everybody that the lease agreement has "read this entire agreement" written several times on it including the integration clause which states that only what is written in this agreement is binding and nothing that has been seen orally or in writting previously or contemporaneously means anything. They really want you to understand that once you sign it, there is no turning back. Since contracts require two parties, these warning equally apply to the other party, i.e. dealership.

What makes this different than the marine store is that you are given ample time to check and double check the transaction. That goes for the dealership as well, who actually drew up the agreement and the purchase agreement!

What happens if I had negotiated a certain mileage, but sign an agreement with a lower mileage and realize my mistage a week later? I think we all know that the dealer would point out to the at least three locations on the contract that say you should read the agreement before you sign it because it is binding and tell me I was out of luck.

I'm not looking to "screw" the dealership, but I didn't really know that they had made an error. I signed the agreement assuming I would have the 15K miles like it said on both the purchase agreement and the lease agreement. Two documents! Asking me to have removed 9K at .18/mile is taking about $1600 out of my pocket which is more of a burden to me than it is to them.

In good faith I thought they were giving me a great deal, and I can reasonably assume that they made a good faith error, but the fact remains that it is there error (which was easily avoidable with ample time to correct) and the burden of fixing it should be on them. All I want is what can be considered fair to me for changing the deal after the ink has dried. I think the auto dealer can take resposibility for their error without being overburdened.

drsinfla

Here's what's going on. The salesman screwed up by putting down the 15,000 miles instead of 12,000. The lease finance company now is charging him additional $ which is eroding his profit, and maybe putting him at a loss. I'm sure it has wiped out his commission, no big deal from the dealership's perspective, but if the deal is now costing the dealership money, it is going to be a big problem for him. It could even cost him his job.

Let's face facts - the car dealers are going to screw ya - that's how they make their profit. They also have high overhead, so they kinda need to make a profit too. When I bought my wife's toyota, which I had negotiated a very favorable price on, a $500 rebate magically disappeared from the invoice at the last minute. "Oops, we're sorry. We'll put that right back on." Do you think it would have been placed back on once I came back to the dealership the next day after signing and driving? I doubt it...

However, there should be a happy medium. Legally, you are well within your rights to make them honor the terms of the contract. No discussion. Now, if this mistake is going to cost them $3000, that's a bit of a different story. It is one thing to copper your clients and grow rich, but another thing to rip their eyeballs out. That puts you out of business.

Here's what I suggest. Call the general manager and arrange for an appointment with him. Discuss this, and see the price of the lease service agreement for both 12,000 and 15,000 miles that THEY deal with. Figure out how much they have lost from this mistake. If it is $500 or less, they should eat it and it should come out of the salesperson's fee. He should treat it as a learning experience. Be a mensch and warn him you will be calling the GM and if his incompetence is revealed, he may lose his job. If its $1500 or more, it would be ethical to do the 12000 agreement AT COST and fair value. They won't make any money on the sale, but they won't lose any either. That should be a fair resolution. Any funny business, or impropriety, you say "C'ya!" & make them honor the terms of their contract. That's how I would handle it.

DaveT

I guess I'm more than a little confused here. The original post says that the dealer wants to change the contract because the bank won't fund it. If such is the case, then it appears to me that the dealer knew exactly what the contract says, and the request to re-sign a new or modified contract is driven by something other than what you are being told.

I'm also confused by a bank being involved in a lease deal, since all my leasing experience has always involved the manufacturer's financial arm (GMAC, Ford Motor Credit, etc). Who actually owns the car? Who are the lease payments made to? These 2 things are surely covered in the details of the lease. If it is clearly stipulated that "the bank" is the owner, and payments are to be made to "the bank", then the dealer is acting solely in the capacity as an agent for the bank.

Does the lease agreement say that the deal is subject to review and/or approval by anyone other than you and the dealer? If so, then you don't have a deal until such a contingency has been removed.

As far as the mileage difference is concerned, if you agreed to 12,000 miles/year then what's the big deal if that's all that is changed? You'll be getting what you agreed to irrespective of how it got be 15,000 vs. 12,000. Don't know that anything other than revised numbers initialed and dated by both parties on the existing contract should be required, but maybe they require "un-altered" documents - in which case the onus is on you to make sure that nothing else is changed.

As far as it being worth something - maybe a good-will gesture of a few free oil changes is in order, but only in the interest keeping you happy. You've lost nothing but a little time, and you have to live with your conscience.

If, on the other hand, this is a scheme to re-negotiate the deal, then they weren't acting in good faith from the start - get your down payment back, hand them the keys, call somebody to pick you up, report them to the Better Business Bureau, and call Mazda North American Operations and file a complaint with them.

Sigma

I'm confused.

Apparently you had been negotiating with these guys under the pretense of 12K miles for a while. You yourself said that you "had been negotiating so much". And you came to an agreement (with 12K miles) and had them fax you the documents so you could really go over them. At which point you noticed it was 15K.

How are you "out" the 9,000 miles ($1600)? You agreed to 12K miles, so obviously 12K miles was acceptable to you. You either didn't think you would be driving 15K miles or you felt that the $1600 was acceptable to you when you finally came to agreement and had them fax the documents. So why, when they want to go back to the agreed-upon 12K, are you any more "out of pocket" than you would have been if the mistake had never been made?

By correcting the mistake, The dealer isn't "screwing you over" any more than they would be if the deal went through as originally agreed upon. You, on the other hand, are screwing the dealer by not allowing them to correct the mistake.

If you and your buddy were talking about doing some work on his house, and you agreed on $800 for the help, and when he wrote the check he wrote it for $1,000 -- would you say "Hey, why the extra money?" or would you shut your mouth and take the money? And, if the next day before you even cashed the check (remember, it's not like you've already driven the miles thinking you had them, you're out nothing here), he came to you and said, "Hey, man, I accidentally overpaid you yesterday, could I get that $200 back", would you think he was screwing you over? He's just correcting the mistake and you still get what was agreed upon.

frig

If I didn't sign the new deal, I'd be afraid to go back for service. They have ways of getting even. Choose your battles wisely. You may need to deal with these people at a later date. Play nice!!!!!

nomopistons

Sorry I would not sign again. Whenever you go to a dealer they try to give you as little as possible for your car and get as much as they can for theirs. Then you get to the finance guy and he hits you up with a finance rate that he makes his commission off of. Let the finance guy take the hit.

Maybe I'm sour on dealerships, but I traded in a 2001 FORD conversion van that was fully loaded that listed for 42,000 new. I had it 2 1/2 years, just put new tires on it and they gave me 10,000 for it on trade for the 8. When I traded it in, it did not have the DVD/TV in it and the salesman had the nerve to ask for me to bring it in. Yeah, I'll give you a 600.00 unit for the 10,000.00 trade in.

F**k you verry much! Bommarito South Mazda.