Kickers V6 swap thread
01-10-2013, 04:07 PM
#276
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01-10-2013, 06:29 PM
#279
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I don't mind splicing wires but why would I bother if I'm taking the EPS out?
I have more then the car going on. Just got through the holidays (thank god), have a Michigan trip coming up, and I'm leasing another building to open a second store. LOTS going on this winter. That's why now is a great time to count the bugs before I let them out.
Last edited by kickerfox; 01-10-2013 at 06:35 PM.
01-10-2013, 07:16 PM
#280
hey kickerfox-- there will always be people that will critize you no matter what.
I too feel that the RX8 has a steering issue that COULD be dangerous under certain situations. Of course this could also apply to hydraulic systems accept for one thing. A hydraulic system will never JERK the steering away from you like this one can. Yes --I have had the steering jerk to the left side so hard that the car almost changed lanes before I could forceably stop it. I fixed the connector and no more problems--but it did scare me a little. If my wife had been driving she would have had, more than likely, a lost of control event. I love the way this car steers--but I am cautious about the general safety of the system.
The viper engine was a truck engine also--to begin with
I too feel that the RX8 has a steering issue that COULD be dangerous under certain situations. Of course this could also apply to hydraulic systems accept for one thing. A hydraulic system will never JERK the steering away from you like this one can. Yes --I have had the steering jerk to the left side so hard that the car almost changed lanes before I could forceably stop it. I fixed the connector and no more problems--but it did scare me a little. If my wife had been driving she would have had, more than likely, a lost of control event. I love the way this car steers--but I am cautious about the general safety of the system.
The viper engine was a truck engine also--to begin with
And the guy with the 6 paths of whatever. He can talk about engines all he wants but the idiot failed to remember the engine in a ford gt is from a ford f150.`
01-10-2013, 10:08 PM
#281
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This "truck engine" has many of the features that a high performance "car engine" may have.
Such as:
-DOHC 4 valves per cylinder
-Large valves
-Mechanical cam-over-bucket followers
-Large intake ports
-Straight intake ports
-Rigid main bearing and bottom end support
-Direct driven oil pump (front of block. Crank-driven)
-Reliable method of cam drive
-Multi-port fuel injection
-Semi-siamesed cylinder bores
-Lightweight block
-Large water jackets
-Large coolant inlet/outlet ports
-Forged rods
-Oil squirters (in rod)
-Cast pistons
-Easy access to oil feed for external cooler/filter
Being a "truck engine" it was designed to work hard. THE limiting HP factor is it's cast crank. I doubt it takes kindly to high RPM or boost but guys do run 10psi non-intercooled superchargers on the stock internals. The guys down-under beat the hell out of these things. As daily drivers here in the states, 150-200k miles isn't uncommon. In fact, most of the used engines are all high mileage (150k+).
I'm going to give it a chance. The torque curve is tuned low but look at that intake manifold I posted a few posts back. No wonder. Now I could tune the intake higher and shift some torque up the RPM band but I'd probably loose a bit in the low end due to the cams. It may balance out just fine and give me a long torque curve at the expense of peak torque. I can live with that.
Tell you what guys. I'll make this drama worth something. I'll paypal $10 to someone who plots me a crank dyno of the 13b-msp AND provides a HP curve. (hopefully that's not against forum rules. If so, please delete it). That will shed some light on the subject of this being a minimal upgrade to the stock engine...or prove I'm wrong.
Such as:
-DOHC 4 valves per cylinder
-Large valves
-Mechanical cam-over-bucket followers
-Large intake ports
-Straight intake ports
-Rigid main bearing and bottom end support
-Direct driven oil pump (front of block. Crank-driven)
-Reliable method of cam drive
-Multi-port fuel injection
-Semi-siamesed cylinder bores
-Lightweight block
-Large water jackets
-Large coolant inlet/outlet ports
-Forged rods
-Oil squirters (in rod)
-Cast pistons
-Easy access to oil feed for external cooler/filter
Being a "truck engine" it was designed to work hard. THE limiting HP factor is it's cast crank. I doubt it takes kindly to high RPM or boost but guys do run 10psi non-intercooled superchargers on the stock internals. The guys down-under beat the hell out of these things. As daily drivers here in the states, 150-200k miles isn't uncommon. In fact, most of the used engines are all high mileage (150k+).
I'm going to give it a chance. The torque curve is tuned low but look at that intake manifold I posted a few posts back. No wonder. Now I could tune the intake higher and shift some torque up the RPM band but I'd probably loose a bit in the low end due to the cams. It may balance out just fine and give me a long torque curve at the expense of peak torque. I can live with that.
Tell you what guys. I'll make this drama worth something. I'll paypal $10 to someone who plots me a crank dyno of the 13b-msp AND provides a HP curve. (hopefully that's not against forum rules. If so, please delete it). That will shed some light on the subject of this being a minimal upgrade to the stock engine...or prove I'm wrong.
Last edited by kickerfox; 05-25-2013 at 08:42 PM.
01-11-2013, 08:59 AM
#285
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The viper engine is an engine derived from one of lamborghinis designs even after getting help from them building the v10 for it.
And the guy with the 6 paths of whatever. He can talk about engines all he wants but the idiot failed to remember the engine in a ford gt is from a ford f150.`
And the guy with the 6 paths of whatever. He can talk about engines all he wants but the idiot failed to remember the engine in a ford gt is from a ford f150.`
OP is planning on using a truck engine for it's low-end torque, but then plans on modding and tuning it to change it's power band. In doing so he's going to shift that low end torque further up the rev range, which will no longer make it "low-end" torque. This basically contradicts his original reason for picking the engine: "It's higher low-end torque." I don't care what engine he uses. It's the fact that in his desperate attempt to justify his decision, he contradicts himself over and over.
01-11-2013, 10:09 AM
#286
actually, it's ford's modular block that they use for all v8 applications. Different specs and displacement for different vehicles. I can assure you that it's not running the same crank, rods, pistons, or heads that the truck is. Actually the 5.4 in the GT is a 4 valve DOHC where all of ford's truck engines are SOHC and 2 valve. Before calling people names, you should know what you are talking about. I most certainly am an idiot. I posted in this thread.
OP is planning on using a truck engine for it's low-end torque, but then plans on modding and tuning it to change it's power band. In doing so he's going to shift that low end torque further up the rev range, which will no longer make it "low-end" torque. This basically contradicts his original reason for picking the engine: "It's higher low-end torque." I don't care what engine he uses. It's the fact that in his desperate attempt to justify his decision, he contradicts himself over and over.
OP is planning on using a truck engine for it's low-end torque, but then plans on modding and tuning it to change it's power band. In doing so he's going to shift that low end torque further up the rev range, which will no longer make it "low-end" torque. This basically contradicts his original reason for picking the engine: "It's higher low-end torque." I don't care what engine he uses. It's the fact that in his desperate attempt to justify his decision, he contradicts himself over and over.
Your failing to see that. Also another car you forgot is the noble 600 runs from a twin turbo volvo v8.
01-11-2013, 10:18 AM
#287
You're the one failing to consider that the block and head of an engine aren't as important as the internals... and that converting a truck block to a sports car engine means investing thousands of dollars to reach the goal.
Also... he wants low end torque. Sports car engines come alive up top.
Also... he wants low end torque. Sports car engines come alive up top.
01-11-2013, 10:33 AM
#288
You're the one failing to consider that the block and head of an engine aren't as important as the internals... and that converting a truck block to a sports car engine means investing thousands of dollars to reach the goal.
Also... he wants low end torque. Sports car engines come alive up top.
Also... he wants low end torque. Sports car engines come alive up top.
01-11-2013, 10:35 AM
#289
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Thats the point im getting across... if the block is the Same as a truck to me its essentially the same rngine as the f150 adding a supercharger and even heads someone has done to there ford lightnings .look how well that dame block is doing for an american sports car. So whats the difference of hin using a trucks block and just switching initial **** to rev and make power.
Your failing to see that. Also another car you forgot is the noble 600 runs from a twin turbo volvo v8.
Your failing to see that. Also another car you forgot is the noble 600 runs from a twin turbo volvo v8.
crank, bearings, bearing journals, main caps, rods, pistons, heads, cams, valves and the rest of the valve train, intake, exhaust, water pump, thermostat, oil system, and all of the accessories are completely different between the gt engine and the truck engine. Same block must mean same engine.
If the OP builds his isuzu engine to be more sports car, it will completely change it, cost him money, and his beloved "low-end torque" will no longer be in the low-end of the rev range because it can't. If he wants it to rev and feel sporty it will have to shift up to support a broader and higher power band. he needs to change almost all of the stuff i mentioned above to do so. He's basically going to have to re-engineer the engine to make it what he wants. That will cost money, lots of money. He has already talked about modifying rods from other cars to get what he wants. I sure hope he understands the implications of doing so.
Any engine can be made sporty, regardless of what it's original intent was. The difference between the op and his shitsuzu engine and ford using and modular block to build a sports car engine is millions of dollars in R&D, an engine factory, and a team of engineers doing the work.
Im not saying it can't be done. I'm saying it's a really dumb place to start and it's going to blow his budget.
01-11-2013, 10:40 AM
#290
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It doesn't need to by all high end, but you want the majority of you power in the second half of the rev range for a sports car. You don't tool around a race track at 2k rpm.
01-11-2013, 12:17 PM
#292
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In doing so he's going to shift that low end torque further up the rev range, which will no longer make it "low-end" torque. This basically contradicts his original reason for picking the engine: "It's higher low-end torque." I don't care what engine he uses. It's the fact that in his desperate attempt to justify his decision, he contradicts himself over and over.
For those who don't understand tuning, intake runner length or header length doesn't do jack for part throttle driving. You only see gains at WOT. If properly designed, you'll see a hump in VE when everything comes into tune. You can even excede 100% VE.
Anyone know the VE for a rotary?
01-11-2013, 04:49 PM
#293
01-11-2013, 05:08 PM
#294
Sure... that would mean that since we're both human beings you're just like me because we're made of the same parts?
No thanks.
It's like saying that Maserati engines are like those found on their Ferrari counterparts. Lol, sure.
No thanks.
It's like saying that Maserati engines are like those found on their Ferrari counterparts. Lol, sure.
01-11-2013, 05:26 PM
#296
01-11-2013, 05:51 PM
#297
If an alien came from space could he tell the difference? ...thats something i dont wanna find out not worth risking an **** probe
01-11-2013, 05:55 PM
#298
Voids warranties
There's more to classifying an engine than just the block.
By your logic, If you strip down the Mazda Ranger B2000 to just a frame, then build a purpose built track car on it, is it still a truck? no
Or the small block Chevy engine that's in most Chevy trucks. That started life as a corvette engine. Does that mean that all chevy truck engines are corvette engines? no.
01-11-2013, 05:59 PM
#299
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All the calculating I do I've had to learn on my own just like everyone else.I was curious to know how efficient an NA Renesis breathes. Does it ever break 100% VE? What is the average VE across the usable power band?
01-11-2013, 06:00 PM
#300
Thats the most ignorant thought process I've heard so far.
There's more to classifying an engine than just the block.
By your logic, If you strip down the Mazda Ranger B2000 to just a frame, then build a purpose built track car on it, is it still a truck? no
Or the small block Chevy engine that's in most Chevy trucks. That started life as a corvette engine. Does that mean that all chevy truck engines are corvette engines? no.
There's more to classifying an engine than just the block.
By your logic, If you strip down the Mazda Ranger B2000 to just a frame, then build a purpose built track car on it, is it still a truck? no
Or the small block Chevy engine that's in most Chevy trucks. That started life as a corvette engine. Does that mean that all chevy truck engines are corvette engines? no.
A b2000 is still at the end of a day a ranger In my eyes.