Has anyone ever swapped a Piston into an RX-8?
12-31-2007, 02:58 PM
#29
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12-31-2007, 03:10 PM
#32
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I'll basically start of with a rebuilt KA without Turbo. Power is not an issue for me at all. I don't get to drive too fast anyway. The highway reconstruction is going to take at least a couple more years so the speed limit is 55MPH (I do 65MPH)
Any piston I put in the RX-8 will be completely rebuilt. No point putting in a worn engine into a new body. Nothing like $1,200 set of Rods or anything like that though. Just new bearings, cams and better lifters.
I'm going to plan this out carefully to keep the cost down.
It takes about $7,000 to put in a VQ35DE into a Nissan 240SX. I believe it should cost less to put in a KA24DE into a RENESIS. Especially with the RENESIS selling back for $3,000. Nobody wants a KA on the other hand. They're dirt cheap.
Any piston I put in the RX-8 will be completely rebuilt. No point putting in a worn engine into a new body. Nothing like $1,200 set of Rods or anything like that though. Just new bearings, cams and better lifters.
I'm going to plan this out carefully to keep the cost down.
It takes about $7,000 to put in a VQ35DE into a Nissan 240SX. I believe it should cost less to put in a KA24DE into a RENESIS. Especially with the RENESIS selling back for $3,000. Nobody wants a KA on the other hand. They're dirt cheap.
Last edited by Soravia; 12-31-2007 at 03:16 PM.
12-31-2007, 03:23 PM
#33
Sorry, but I don't see the sense of spending a couple of thousand of dollars to put in a more fuel efficent engine. You will be saving pennies per mile for all your work. It will take a long time to recover all the time and money spent.
A better mod would be a bigger fuel tank.
A better mod would be a bigger fuel tank.
12-31-2007, 03:27 PM
#34
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LOL. Saving gas is a good idea if you plan to keep the car and use it for daily driving.
And that's my plan. I'm NOT going to buy a Civic and keep RX-8 in the garage.
I estimate the swap to cost $1,500 for engine and fabs. $500 for renting place. No Labor since I'll do it myself.
I'll sell the RENESIS for $3,000.
I'll pay about $11,000 for RX-8. So even if the swap cost me $3,000 I still get an RX-8 with Mazda3 Mileage for the Price of a Mazda3 Hatch.
And that's my plan. I'm NOT going to buy a Civic and keep RX-8 in the garage.
I estimate the swap to cost $1,500 for engine and fabs. $500 for renting place. No Labor since I'll do it myself.
I'll sell the RENESIS for $3,000.
I'll pay about $11,000 for RX-8. So even if the swap cost me $3,000 I still get an RX-8 with Mazda3 Mileage for the Price of a Mazda3 Hatch.
Last edited by Soravia; 12-31-2007 at 03:45 PM.
12-31-2007, 03:35 PM
#36
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Go shoot yourself. I said I hate Honda or any FWD.
If I can't buy a car I like, I make one.
People said I was crazy spending so much on a 240SX w/o Turbo. They changed their mind after riding in it.
If I can't buy a car I like, I make one.
People said I was crazy spending so much on a 240SX w/o Turbo. They changed their mind after riding in it.
Last edited by Soravia; 12-31-2007 at 03:38 PM.
12-31-2007, 03:51 PM
#37
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LOL. Saving gas is a good idea if you plan to keep the car and use it for daily driving.
And that's my plan. I'm NOT going to buy a Civic and keep RX-8 in the garage.
I estimate the swap to cost $1,500 for engine and fabs. $500 for renting place. No Labor since I'll do it myself.
I'll sell the RENESIS for $3,000.
I'll pay about $11,000 for RX-8. So even if the swap cost me $3,000 I still get an RX-8 with Mazda3 Mileage for the Price of a Mazda3 Hatch.
And that's my plan. I'm NOT going to buy a Civic and keep RX-8 in the garage.
I estimate the swap to cost $1,500 for engine and fabs. $500 for renting place. No Labor since I'll do it myself.
I'll sell the RENESIS for $3,000.
I'll pay about $11,000 for RX-8. So even if the swap cost me $3,000 I still get an RX-8 with Mazda3 Mileage for the Price of a Mazda3 Hatch.
12-31-2007, 03:52 PM
#38
He's as bad as Can
It was crazy fast down the straight. I think the V8 would change the balance of the car though.http://hinsonsupercars.com/ has been doing V8 => RX-7's for some time now. Maybe some RX-8's people should start bugging them???
12-31-2007, 03:57 PM
#39
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everyone should stop trying to get this guy to come to his senses. if he really thinks he can get a swap without spending much more power to him. if he thinks he won't have plenty of problems down the road and spending more to maintain then let's see it. i'll be first in line to say i was wrong if he comes in 5 years down the road to say that he did it for that cheap and he didn't have more than average issues maintaining it.
12-31-2007, 03:59 PM
#40
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$1500, huh? I suppose rebuilding the engine will be free, right? $300 junk yard transmissions are usually immaculate, so that won't need a rebuild. I suppose a $2500-$4700 KA24 turbo kit will come free, too, along with an ECU that's compatible. And what if the steering rack needs to be moved? Different radiators? Clutch cylinder and assemblies? Alternator? Ancillary systems? There's a lot you haven't thought about here, and it's a hell of a lot to save $100 a month (best case scenario).
Steering rack is one of the things I'm considering. KA uses hydrolic.
Here's the cost of a rebuilt KA on the outside parts
Clutch Master $35
Clutch Slave $30
Alternator $120 + Core
Starter $120 + Core
Clutch Kit with Pressure Plate $150
Water Pump $50
Gasket Set $200
OEM O2 Sensor $35
NGK Iridium Plugs $10 Each
Try looking up the cost of those parts for RENESIS.
And calculating the cost is one of the biggest things in the plan. I'm not going to do it if it cost me $3,000 in addition to the cost of the car.
The way I see it, The mod can save $1,000 each year with 30 miles a day. (more if I drive faster)
If the cost is $2,000 in addition to the car the cost is recovered within 2 years and well justified. Selling the RENESIS and related parts such as ABS, CAT, etc will recover about $3,000 so I can afford to spend up to $5000 on the mod.
If any part with the engine breaks, they will be cheaper to replace or rebuild compared to RENESIS.
All in all it's very economical. If I'm lucky I'll find an RX-8 with broken RENESIS and out of warranty for less than $7,000. (auction price)
At the worst case scenario, I'll end up with a fully rebuilt KA24DE engine and $500 or so in renting garage. In that case I'll just pop that KA into my 240sx and replace the 200K old engine.
Last edited by Soravia; 12-31-2007 at 04:14 PM.
12-31-2007, 04:33 PM
#42
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Thanks, I'll look into that.
Transmission is going to be the stock RX-8 6-Speed. KA comes with only 5 Speed. I'll have to fab a bell housing and a connecting rod.
I'll probably cut a KA Trans bell housing and bolt the RX-8 Transmission onto that and use an extender for the connecting rod.
Is that idea possible? I'm trying to minimize the mods being done on stock RX-8 parts.
Transmission is going to be the stock RX-8 6-Speed. KA comes with only 5 Speed. I'll have to fab a bell housing and a connecting rod.
I'll probably cut a KA Trans bell housing and bolt the RX-8 Transmission onto that and use an extender for the connecting rod.
Is that idea possible? I'm trying to minimize the mods being done on stock RX-8 parts.
Last edited by Soravia; 12-31-2007 at 04:46 PM.
12-31-2007, 04:53 PM
#43
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Uh what was the purpose for this thread again? You seem pretty set on putting that engine in the rx8 , why not just do it? If you do go through with it , good luck 
. Isnt this process a little too much just for a little more torque and gas mileage? Thats a little too extreme , IMO get a WRX or something lol (its got 4 seats) not really sure on the gas mileage.
. Isnt this process a little too much just for a little more torque and gas mileage? Thats a little too extreme , IMO get a WRX or something lol (its got 4 seats) not really sure on the gas mileage.
12-31-2007, 05:46 PM
#45
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LOL.
I hear that WRX gets good milage so long as the gas is not being stepped on. But I don't want a Sedan with Turbo. I want a sports car with 4 seats. Plus have you looked up on the WRX insurance cost?
Every dollar you put into a car comes back at least a penny. But every hundreds and thousands you put into insurance never really comes back.
I'll have to check on the gas mileage a KA24DE would get in a RX-8 though. I'll put about 300LB on my 240sx and see how much mileage it gets.
A KA24DE rebuilt would definitely be getting higher compression and ECU re-mapping to get more torque per liter to make even better mileage. Stock KA24DE got 26MPG on highway but now I get 30MPG on highway after removing EGR system and fowarding timing with 93 Octane gas.
Part of the gas mileage plan also includes getting smaller front Rotors from RX-8 Automatics and putting on lighter 16" wheels. But that's for later.
I hear that WRX gets good milage so long as the gas is not being stepped on. But I don't want a Sedan with Turbo. I want a sports car with 4 seats. Plus have you looked up on the WRX insurance cost?
Every dollar you put into a car comes back at least a penny. But every hundreds and thousands you put into insurance never really comes back.
I'll have to check on the gas mileage a KA24DE would get in a RX-8 though. I'll put about 300LB on my 240sx and see how much mileage it gets.
A KA24DE rebuilt would definitely be getting higher compression and ECU re-mapping to get more torque per liter to make even better mileage. Stock KA24DE got 26MPG on highway but now I get 30MPG on highway after removing EGR system and fowarding timing with 93 Octane gas.
Part of the gas mileage plan also includes getting smaller front Rotors from RX-8 Automatics and putting on lighter 16" wheels. But that's for later.
12-31-2007, 06:17 PM
#47
I read your thread on NICO
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=302473
The only comment I'd make is that fuel economy is quite possibly the worst reason (after bling) to do an engine swap.
You will never recoup the dollars spent on the modification in fuel savings.
Even if you doubled the Renesis' fuel economy, it would take you 5 to 7 years to break even.
As I noted elsewhere, for a similar cost, you could swap in an engine with double the potential of the SR (and I like the SR).
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zeropost?cmd=tshow&id=302473
The only comment I'd make is that fuel economy is quite possibly the worst reason (after bling) to do an engine swap.
You will never recoup the dollars spent on the modification in fuel savings.
Even if you doubled the Renesis' fuel economy, it would take you 5 to 7 years to break even.
As I noted elsewhere, for a similar cost, you could swap in an engine with double the potential of the SR (and I like the SR).
12-31-2007, 06:18 PM
#48
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Well the Nico people were mostly childish, save for a few and mods.
They think popping in a VQ35DE into a 240sx for $7,000 is cool but putting in a rebuilt KA into an RX-8 is not.
I don't know how possible it is on the budget I have planned for, but what this thread is about. To get ideas of what I'll run into from people who have experience with swaps.
I know the KA engine inside out now but I have no clue on wiring that thing into the RX-8 or how I can convert an electrical steering unit into a hydrolic.
Will a Miata steering system be able to power RX-8 steering?
SR is too expensive on parts. I already talked with a guy who has done SR swaps on 240sx cars. That's why I'm picking the KA without turbo.
A complete KA24DE with trans on eBay runs $900. I can get the same thing at junkyard for $300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-96...QQcmdZViewItem
The main cost will be at fabricating stuff to fit that engine inside the RX-8, namely the Transmission and the Steering.
For break even, I already calculated it to be $1,000 a year (10K miles per year). That's a lot of savings right there. Even without selling the RENESIS it'll take about three years. Selling the RENESIS for $3,000 will break it even right when the car starts.
If I can't sell the RENESIS I'll go about on putting it on the 240sx to reduce weight for auto-cross. But that's for later.
They think popping in a VQ35DE into a 240sx for $7,000 is cool but putting in a rebuilt KA into an RX-8 is not.
I don't know how possible it is on the budget I have planned for, but what this thread is about. To get ideas of what I'll run into from people who have experience with swaps.
I know the KA engine inside out now but I have no clue on wiring that thing into the RX-8 or how I can convert an electrical steering unit into a hydrolic.
Will a Miata steering system be able to power RX-8 steering?
SR is too expensive on parts. I already talked with a guy who has done SR swaps on 240sx cars. That's why I'm picking the KA without turbo.
A complete KA24DE with trans on eBay runs $900. I can get the same thing at junkyard for $300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-96...QQcmdZViewItem
The main cost will be at fabricating stuff to fit that engine inside the RX-8, namely the Transmission and the Steering.
For break even, I already calculated it to be $1,000 a year (10K miles per year). That's a lot of savings right there. Even without selling the RENESIS it'll take about three years. Selling the RENESIS for $3,000 will break it even right when the car starts.
If I can't sell the RENESIS I'll go about on putting it on the 240sx to reduce weight for auto-cross. But that's for later.
Last edited by Soravia; 12-31-2007 at 06:26 PM.
12-31-2007, 06:28 PM
#49
your ? show that you dont have any idea what it takes to do this... trying to have the car function normal with the ecu alone is a task few here could do...
if you insist on doing this you should first get a base car.. it will make it easier...
then post when done... please go do it and prove us wrong..
make sure you have about 10k extra.
beers
if you insist on doing this you should first get a base car.. it will make it easier...
then post when done... please go do it and prove us wrong..
make sure you have about 10k extra.
beers
12-31-2007, 06:30 PM
#50
You will be replacing the entire drive train, front to back, as well as all of the wiring harnesses, engine management, cluster, fuel delivery and all of the "creature comforts" like HVAC, power steering and much of the front frame.
Its very doable. Its also very expensive, even if you did all of your own work.
At some point in its life cycle, it is likely my '8 will receive an aluminum V-8. I'll be doing all of my own work, but I expect the costs to run between $10k and $15k.
Its very doable. Its also very expensive, even if you did all of your own work.
At some point in its life cycle, it is likely my '8 will receive an aluminum V-8. I'll be doing all of my own work, but I expect the costs to run between $10k and $15k.