2005 RX8 - LS1/T56 Swap
03-03-2015, 03:32 PM
#76
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yeah Tein Basis and PSS9's are not really in the same class as the PSS9's. The Basis are not adjustable for damping and the PSS9's are a unique setup (rear mainly) and according to Bilstein have a good amount of R&D in them specific to the RX-8. The Basis are targeted for those that want to just get low.
Honestly I would run something that you can customize later to dial the car in and the PSS9's would fit that bill. The Basis use specific tapered springs that are harder to find. Also consider the KW variant, they are a great setup. Anything beyond that will be $$$$. Fir $1500.00 shipped I feel the PSS9's make the most sense and your odds of having a Bilstein shock tuner in your area for later are pretty high.
Honestly I would run something that you can customize later to dial the car in and the PSS9's would fit that bill. The Basis use specific tapered springs that are harder to find. Also consider the KW variant, they are a great setup. Anything beyond that will be $$$$. Fir $1500.00 shipped I feel the PSS9's make the most sense and your odds of having a Bilstein shock tuner in your area for later are pretty high.
03-03-2015, 04:18 PM
#77
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info!
Definitely not just trying to get the car low, though obviously I would like it a bit lower.
It sounds like the PSS9's are a really good bang for your buck overall, especially for a car that is not a track only car. Im figuring 80/20 for Street/track use, mostly due to the fact that I will daily drive this car through the summer, but time attack race most weekends, so it will see 20k+ miles over the season.
The ability to re-valve them seems to be a big + for them over some other options, and the $500ish difference over the KW's is enough that I would probably try the PSS9's.
I am going to look at some heavier sway bars also to tune handling further, but I feel I am going to be having to do some trial and error as I start to find out how much of an impact the swap has on the dynamics of the car.
I have a ZR1 Corvette sway bar in my basement that I had from when I worked at GM, it actually would fit fairly easily into the front of the with some fabbed up mounting points as it is nearly identical to the 8's width wise, though I believe the Diameter of the ZR1 bar is going to be a bit much and would require a fairly big bar out back to balance it out.
Endless amount of re-engineering things on this car, but admittingly thats exactly why I selected this chassis. I am thoroughly enjoying the challenge of the build, despite hating it almost equally
This car is starting to bleed me dry, so trying to save a few bones where I can safely do so without ruining the car any further then I already am lol.
Definitely not just trying to get the car low, though obviously I would like it a bit lower.
It sounds like the PSS9's are a really good bang for your buck overall, especially for a car that is not a track only car. Im figuring 80/20 for Street/track use, mostly due to the fact that I will daily drive this car through the summer, but time attack race most weekends, so it will see 20k+ miles over the season.
The ability to re-valve them seems to be a big + for them over some other options, and the $500ish difference over the KW's is enough that I would probably try the PSS9's.
I am going to look at some heavier sway bars also to tune handling further, but I feel I am going to be having to do some trial and error as I start to find out how much of an impact the swap has on the dynamics of the car.
I have a ZR1 Corvette sway bar in my basement that I had from when I worked at GM, it actually would fit fairly easily into the front of the with some fabbed up mounting points as it is nearly identical to the 8's width wise, though I believe the Diameter of the ZR1 bar is going to be a bit much and would require a fairly big bar out back to balance it out.
Endless amount of re-engineering things on this car, but admittingly thats exactly why I selected this chassis. I am thoroughly enjoying the challenge of the build, despite hating it almost equally
This car is starting to bleed me dry, so trying to save a few bones where I can safely do so without ruining the car any further then I already am lol.
03-03-2015, 04:21 PM
#78
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yeah and being able to play with spring rates as well will be a huge advantage. But if you get into the serious business of suspension tuning then you might want to send a PM to TeamRX8.
03-04-2015, 10:48 AM
#79
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I would love to keep the function, mostly since I am a tech guy and part of the complete package of function of is the electronics, so I would like to make them work since it is not a track only car.
Traction control is last on my list of module functions though, mostly due to the need for newer electronics then im currently working with, and the time to work through a perfect code to have no function hiccups with traction control.
On a note of suspension, I've been doing some research on coilover setups for this car to figure out which route would be best to take.
I know the extra weight on the front end, and overall balance of the car will make a big impact on the performance of the front suspension especially, so its proving to be a bit of a job to figure out which is the best route to take.
At this point, I'm still a novice driver at best, with very little time on the track, despite a huge amount of time behind the wheel of some very powerful and balanced cars, so I know my ability to tell the difference between Tein Basis and Bilstein PSS9's is going to be very limited.
It seems as if my best route would likely to be something like the Tein Basis setup for now to learn the car, as it will still be seeing a fair bit of track even if I am slow as ****, then as I am able to improve, I can make suspension changes accordingly.
9K, I have seen you pop up in several threads I have dug through in regards to coilovers, maybe you could shed some light for me?
Appreciate everyone's input on this build so far!
Traction control is last on my list of module functions though, mostly due to the need for newer electronics then im currently working with, and the time to work through a perfect code to have no function hiccups with traction control.
On a note of suspension, I've been doing some research on coilover setups for this car to figure out which route would be best to take.
I know the extra weight on the front end, and overall balance of the car will make a big impact on the performance of the front suspension especially, so its proving to be a bit of a job to figure out which is the best route to take.
At this point, I'm still a novice driver at best, with very little time on the track, despite a huge amount of time behind the wheel of some very powerful and balanced cars, so I know my ability to tell the difference between Tein Basis and Bilstein PSS9's is going to be very limited.
It seems as if my best route would likely to be something like the Tein Basis setup for now to learn the car, as it will still be seeing a fair bit of track even if I am slow as ****, then as I am able to improve, I can make suspension changes accordingly.
9K, I have seen you pop up in several threads I have dug through in regards to coilovers, maybe you could shed some light for me?
Appreciate everyone's input on this build so far!
03-04-2015, 10:52 AM
#80
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Trying to look at the big picture with this build and do more then just slam a heavy engine/trans into it with no concern for the rest of the car.
On that note, finally got a big piece of the puzzle that I've been missing! God damn expensive hunk of aluminum. Guess they know people will happily pay $370CAD for this thing
With that here, tonight I can finally make the transmission crossmember!
03-04-2015, 10:54 AM
#81
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Fat Cat Motorsports offers custom built Bilstein based coilovers. They're more than the PSS9's, but you will literally talk to the guy building your CO's, tell him what mods you have, what your roads are like, what kind of handling balance you like, etc, and he'll suggest spring rates and will valve the shocks to suit. He may also recommend sways if he thinks that's the best way to get the ride/handling balance you're looking for. With a V8 swap, anything OTS is going to be less than optimal. I highly recommend them.
It is seeming that the shocks/springs will be something that I am going to have to get over the cost of them, as they are going to need to be tailored to suit the car.
Planning to have this done long before the HotRod power tour as I have already got the time booked off work to take it down, probably be a good time then to see what shops I can find stateside to help me out with the suspension.
03-04-2015, 10:28 PM
#82
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Test fit the transmission tonight,
Results are that I have lots of space for headers, but with the trans being moved back the shifter is different then what everyone else has done so far it seems, the F body shifter is too far forward, but the GTO one is too far back.
It seems that I have the motor at least a 3/4" further back then alot of the kits place the motor, which is cool, but no easy GTO shifter install, suppose I will just have to machine out a offset shifter lever for it.
More goodies arriving tomorrow, lots of progress coming up this weekend.
Empty T56 is way lighter for mockup
Would have to trim away a fair bit of the tunnel in front of the shifter still for it to have room to throw, but the GTO shifter would be at the back of the opening and need trimming also, so I suppose Im one step forward, one step back on chasing a better weight balance lol
Been digging into some crazy good IPA's lately, nothing like a high IBU craft beer
Results are that I have lots of space for headers, but with the trans being moved back the shifter is different then what everyone else has done so far it seems, the F body shifter is too far forward, but the GTO one is too far back.
It seems that I have the motor at least a 3/4" further back then alot of the kits place the motor, which is cool, but no easy GTO shifter install, suppose I will just have to machine out a offset shifter lever for it.
More goodies arriving tomorrow, lots of progress coming up this weekend.
Empty T56 is way lighter for mockup
Would have to trim away a fair bit of the tunnel in front of the shifter still for it to have room to throw, but the GTO shifter would be at the back of the opening and need trimming also, so I suppose Im one step forward, one step back on chasing a better weight balance lol
Been digging into some crazy good IPA's lately, nothing like a high IBU craft beer
03-05-2015, 06:34 AM
#84
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
This is an idea of about how much I figure I will need it to lean back to be in the optimal position, I know this isnt a T56 shifter, but gives an idea. I had a pro 5.0 base in my old Camaro and a Hurst in my old C5 vette and I preferred the Pro5.0, may give one of those a shot again, will see.
03-05-2015, 07:29 AM
#85
Water Foul
Fat Cat Motorsports offers custom built Bilstein based coilovers. They're more than the PSS9's, but you will literally talk to the guy building your CO's, tell him what mods you have, what your roads are like, what kind of handling balance you like, etc, and he'll suggest spring rates and will valve the shocks to suit. He may also recommend sways if he thinks that's the best way to get the ride/handling balance you're looking for. With a V8 swap, anything OTS is going to be less than optimal. I highly recommend them.
03-07-2015, 09:36 PM
#88
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Started to install some of the new goodies today, spending the whole weekend working on this thing as I need to make some serious progress.
Starting with the fuel system, here is the filter/regulator setup that there is just enough space to mount up above the tank near the fuel module, fittings will make the plumbing look nice
Onto the pump situation, I got a summit 320lph in tank pump, looks like a nice unit and fits very well into the fuel pump housing
Pump installed. Looking at the setup here, I am thinking I will have the pump feed a corrugated tube to a bulkhead fitting which will feed the filter/regulator setup, then I will have the return from there go back into the old feed fitting, and a corrugated tube goes from the return into the siphon tube, where I have removed the old fuel pressure regulator. In my mind it seems like it will work and still siphon fuel properly? Maybe some more experienced RX8 fuel system guys can chime in for me
So I finally built up the stones to give fabricating the headers a shot, and I am pretty impressed with the outcome! Beginners luck maybe lol
First steps
The outcome!
Just tacked together for now as I want to test fit the subframe and driveline into the car one more time just in case
Tomorrow I will be doing the passenger side header, and mounting the rad, along with test fitting everything!
Starting with the fuel system, here is the filter/regulator setup that there is just enough space to mount up above the tank near the fuel module, fittings will make the plumbing look nice
Onto the pump situation, I got a summit 320lph in tank pump, looks like a nice unit and fits very well into the fuel pump housing
Pump installed. Looking at the setup here, I am thinking I will have the pump feed a corrugated tube to a bulkhead fitting which will feed the filter/regulator setup, then I will have the return from there go back into the old feed fitting, and a corrugated tube goes from the return into the siphon tube, where I have removed the old fuel pressure regulator. In my mind it seems like it will work and still siphon fuel properly? Maybe some more experienced RX8 fuel system guys can chime in for me
So I finally built up the stones to give fabricating the headers a shot, and I am pretty impressed with the outcome! Beginners luck maybe lol
First steps
The outcome!
Just tacked together for now as I want to test fit the subframe and driveline into the car one more time just in case
Tomorrow I will be doing the passenger side header, and mounting the rad, along with test fitting everything!
03-08-2015, 06:29 PM
#90
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Fabricated the passenger side header, and it was a bit of a bitch, must be something to do with who occupys that side of the car :yay:
Not overly happy with this header, I may re fabricate it at a later point, the starter makes for a tough space to work into with some awkward angles for the tubes to still clear the frame rail. Ended up fitting into the car perfectly with enough clearance everywhere, so I guess ill get over the fact that it isnt pretty for now lol
Engine back in the car for like the 50th time, Started doing some mock up for the rad, on the fence of whether I want to have some mounting tabs tig welded onto the rad to sit on brackets off the frame, or whether to fabricate a little cradle for it. Less weight penalty to go with mounting tab route so think ill do that, just have to design something.
Going to be digging into the wiring a bunch this week while I wait for a bunch of my fluid fittings to arrive to do the power steering hydraulic feed, and cooler lines, oil cooler lines, and clutch hydraulics.
Not overly happy with this header, I may re fabricate it at a later point, the starter makes for a tough space to work into with some awkward angles for the tubes to still clear the frame rail. Ended up fitting into the car perfectly with enough clearance everywhere, so I guess ill get over the fact that it isnt pretty for now lol
Engine back in the car for like the 50th time, Started doing some mock up for the rad, on the fence of whether I want to have some mounting tabs tig welded onto the rad to sit on brackets off the frame, or whether to fabricate a little cradle for it. Less weight penalty to go with mounting tab route so think ill do that, just have to design something.
Going to be digging into the wiring a bunch this week while I wait for a bunch of my fluid fittings to arrive to do the power steering hydraulic feed, and cooler lines, oil cooler lines, and clutch hydraulics.
03-09-2015, 09:10 PM
#91
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
13 hour day at work today, so only had time for a couple hours tonight on the car, but finalized the position for my steering rack and tacked the mounting together so I can finish welding it when the subframe comes out again.
Much happier with the positioning now, will probably still need a bumpsteer kit, but oh well. Steering shaft will have to be shortened by about 1/2" and I have found a universal joint that will work for it
Was looking at the positioning for the rad again and have figured out mounting plans, will have my buddy with a tig welder make some brackets off the side of the rad, and I will fab up brackets to fit to the RX8 frame to hold it with no lower cradle. Planning to run a 14" single cooling fan for it.
Much happier with the positioning now, will probably still need a bumpsteer kit, but oh well. Steering shaft will have to be shortened by about 1/2" and I have found a universal joint that will work for it
Was looking at the positioning for the rad again and have figured out mounting plans, will have my buddy with a tig welder make some brackets off the side of the rad, and I will fab up brackets to fit to the RX8 frame to hold it with no lower cradle. Planning to run a 14" single cooling fan for it.
03-16-2015, 06:02 AM
#92
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Alright guys,
Not much of an update right now as I have been busy with other things over the past week, and with the fuel tank partly opened up, the garage is pretty stinky and dont want to do anything that might turn it into a bomb lol
That being said, some parts rolled in this morning for the RX8!
Finally can finish the fuel system for it tonight, then can button the tank up and get onto the transmission crossmember!
Today I got parts to do the hydraulics for the rack, I am reusing the oil coolers on the RX8, one I will use as an engine oil cooler, the other will be a power steering oil cooler. Got PTFE parts to do the high pressure feed, and the return system will feed to the cooler, then back to the reservoir.
Also got the braided feed line for my clutch master cylinder, waiting for a few more parts from Speedway for the remote bleeder, adapter fitting into the slave feed, and they have the adapters to hook into the hydraulic steering rack to convert to 6an.
Heater hose was way cheaper from summit then I get it up here, so I can also do my heater hoses tonight
Figuring I'll probably need to place a couple more orders for parts to do the exhaust from the headers back, brake hoses, and a few others goodies I need.
Think I am going to abandon plans for DBW throttle system, mostly due to the fact that I already have a harness for a cable throttle, a cable throttle body, and I dont know if I want to buy another harness.
Weekend off next weekend so I am hoping to get as close as I can to the engine/trans rebuild point by the end of the weekend, Having a buddy tig weld some brackets onto my aluminum rad this week so I can get it mounted up and start my search for rad hoses!
Not much of an update right now as I have been busy with other things over the past week, and with the fuel tank partly opened up, the garage is pretty stinky and dont want to do anything that might turn it into a bomb lol
That being said, some parts rolled in this morning for the RX8!
Finally can finish the fuel system for it tonight, then can button the tank up and get onto the transmission crossmember!
Today I got parts to do the hydraulics for the rack, I am reusing the oil coolers on the RX8, one I will use as an engine oil cooler, the other will be a power steering oil cooler. Got PTFE parts to do the high pressure feed, and the return system will feed to the cooler, then back to the reservoir.
Also got the braided feed line for my clutch master cylinder, waiting for a few more parts from Speedway for the remote bleeder, adapter fitting into the slave feed, and they have the adapters to hook into the hydraulic steering rack to convert to 6an.
Heater hose was way cheaper from summit then I get it up here, so I can also do my heater hoses tonight
Figuring I'll probably need to place a couple more orders for parts to do the exhaust from the headers back, brake hoses, and a few others goodies I need.
Think I am going to abandon plans for DBW throttle system, mostly due to the fact that I already have a harness for a cable throttle, a cable throttle body, and I dont know if I want to buy another harness.
Weekend off next weekend so I am hoping to get as close as I can to the engine/trans rebuild point by the end of the weekend, Having a buddy tig weld some brackets onto my aluminum rad this week so I can get it mounted up and start my search for rad hoses!
03-17-2015, 09:27 AM
#93
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Managed to get a few hours in on it last night working with the fuel system, fingers crossed this will work as well in real life as it seems it will in my mind
Started with getting the insanely expensive bulkhead through the module
Modified the siphon to allow some more flow through it, and melted the top cap to make sure nothing pops apart, crossing my fingers this works out okay. Flex tube from the new 320LPH fuel pump to bulkhead fitting installed, very tight in the top of the module, but everything did fit okay!
Fuel module installed back into the tank, with feed line to filter setup, return line from filter setup, and a 6an stainless braided line drops down the front of the tank to run up to the fuel rails. Still need to pull all of this out one more time to clean everything, tighten it all, shorten the mounting bolt, but everything mocked up perfectly, very happy with the fuel system so far.
Also mounted up the driver side oil cooler which I will repurpose as a power steering oil cooler, will be fed from the rack return, to the cooler, back to the reservoir. Took a bit of a gamble on what fitting the cooler was and won!
Going to work on the hoses for the cooler tonight, as my adapter fittings for the steering rack came in this morning!
And of course, work didnt happen without beer :chug: My uncle and I have a badass little craft beer exchange going on and he brought me a few of these Robo Hop's by Great Lake Brewery to try and good ******* lord they are amazing! Developing even more expensive addictions :D
Started with getting the insanely expensive bulkhead through the module
Modified the siphon to allow some more flow through it, and melted the top cap to make sure nothing pops apart, crossing my fingers this works out okay. Flex tube from the new 320LPH fuel pump to bulkhead fitting installed, very tight in the top of the module, but everything did fit okay!
Fuel module installed back into the tank, with feed line to filter setup, return line from filter setup, and a 6an stainless braided line drops down the front of the tank to run up to the fuel rails. Still need to pull all of this out one more time to clean everything, tighten it all, shorten the mounting bolt, but everything mocked up perfectly, very happy with the fuel system so far.
Also mounted up the driver side oil cooler which I will repurpose as a power steering oil cooler, will be fed from the rack return, to the cooler, back to the reservoir. Took a bit of a gamble on what fitting the cooler was and won!
Going to work on the hoses for the cooler tonight, as my adapter fittings for the steering rack came in this morning!
And of course, work didnt happen without beer :chug: My uncle and I have a badass little craft beer exchange going on and he brought me a few of these Robo Hop's by Great Lake Brewery to try and good ******* lord they are amazing! Developing even more expensive addictions :D
Last edited by Chezmanbespoke; 03-17-2015 at 09:29 AM.
03-18-2015, 06:06 AM
#94
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Little more progress made on it last night, spent most of the night looking for parts which I didn't end up finding 
so I just got the lines for the power steering done. Feed is a 6an PTFE hose into high pressure inlet of rack, then stainless braid line from low pressure outlet to oil cooler, oil cooler to reservoir.
I will use the passenger side oil cooler as an engine oil cooler for the LS1, while the drivers side is power steering fluid cooler.
so I just got the lines for the power steering done. Feed is a 6an PTFE hose into high pressure inlet of rack, then stainless braid line from low pressure outlet to oil cooler, oil cooler to reservoir. I will use the passenger side oil cooler as an engine oil cooler for the LS1, while the drivers side is power steering fluid cooler.
03-22-2015, 08:18 AM
#95
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
Did some stuff yesterday and Im gonna do more stuff today
Im going to do some research later today, but can i retain the brake reservoir as clutch reservoir? Cause that would be pretty cool if I can. Ill see what I can figure out, hoping so.
Thinking maybe I should just add like 30 more zip ties to hold the rad in and just go with that because racecar. Then I can be like joker!
Building myself a little list for another order I need to place for this car this week.
Hopefully less then $1000 in parts to support the swap, then hopefully less then $3000 putting my motor together, then hopefully less then $2000 putting my trans and clutch together.............. My bank account is not having fun anymore.
To anyone who thinks this swap is cheap or easy....... **** off.
Im going to do some research later today, but can i retain the brake reservoir as clutch reservoir? Cause that would be pretty cool if I can. Ill see what I can figure out, hoping so.
Thinking maybe I should just add like 30 more zip ties to hold the rad in and just go with that because racecar. Then I can be like joker!
Building myself a little list for another order I need to place for this car this week.
Hopefully less then $1000 in parts to support the swap, then hopefully less then $3000 putting my motor together, then hopefully less then $2000 putting my trans and clutch together..............
My bank account is not having fun anymore. To anyone who thinks this swap is cheap or easy....... **** off.
03-22-2015, 10:21 AM
#97
Pistons Please
Thread Starter
I searched high and low for into and ended up taking a gamble and winning with Vibrant 16627.
Vibrant is directly across the road from my work but won't sell direct to me so everything ships down to Summit to come right back in front of them lol, supply chain ridiculousness.
03-22-2015, 08:40 PM
#99
Hopefully less then $1000 in parts to support the swap, then hopefully less then $3000 putting my motor together, then hopefully less then $2000 putting my trans and clutch together.............. My bank account is not having fun anymore.
To anyone who thinks this swap is cheap or easy....... **** off.
My bank account is not having fun anymore. To anyone who thinks this swap is cheap or easy....... **** off.
Oh, common! Isn't that just a redneck junkyard motor you just throw in there? Can't cost that much! LMAO
Now on a serious note: Why did you guys change the fuel pump module? Isn't it a returnless system just like any newer LS? I'm debating on a fuel cell or not. It would save me a good change to keep the OE fuel tank, but if I'm gonna have to modify it and not be sure about the outcome, I'll just get the cell I've been thinking about.
