When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Now I do have to ask. Is there a risk that I seize the motor up with this water treatment? I'm all for it, but what if the motor stalls while doing this process with water in the combustion chamber. Is there any risk that I should know of going into this??
It's a pretty old and tried method for clearing out of carbon. The chemistry behind it is pretty easy to understand. Just be careful when you do it; you don't want too much water in the motor at once. You don't want to hydro-lock the engine.
Decarbonization is also more of a preventive measure. It won't fix much. If you actually have compression that low(which I am still skeptical about), chances are, it won't do much to improve the compression.
Another way to decarbonize is to just go to an auto-crossing event, provided your car checks out(especially the ignition), where you get to drive hard safely, but not to the point you'd need to do cooling and exhaust mods. You also get to learn about the car's limits and improve your skills. I really want to go to one at some point. Sounds like fun. Maybe someone who's been to one can shed some light.
Hey guys, just so you know I'm not pulling anyone's leg about not showing any symptoms of low compression I took two videos. The first video is the car idling at operating temperatures. The second video is a short clip of me driving it a bit. (Before anyone asks. I shoved my phone in a space between my steering wheel and the gauges, I did not and will not hold my phone filming while I drive) Let me know if anything seems out of the ordinary in your opinion.
Now I do have to ask. Is there a risk that I seize the motor up with this water treatment? I'm all for it, but what if the motor stalls while doing this process with water in the combustion chamber. Is there any risk that I should know of going into this??
you have two lines getting T'd together and 1 line sucking the water through. you can feed the water at a sipping pace where you feed it let it suck air, feed it, suck air, etc.
You are not going to hydrolock an engine this way. you need a lot of water to do that.
The steam will clean the engine internals, and compression may first get worse as you just cleaned off all the oil on the housings. That is why I sip a little 2-cycle oil in at the end to get everything lubed back up. you then need to change the oil, or perhaps not, and run the car hard. you need to get it heated up and cooled, heated up and cooled. If you baby the car it might not get enough heat into the engine to loosen up the seals which are carbon locked or stuck. it might take multiple water treatments and multiple thousands on miles to really loosen it all back up, or might need a rebuild to get everything unstuck if carbon is the main issue. If the engine is damaged, say the housings are bad or what not this is not going to help you, but if you drove the car softly and never really pushed it much, then it could be carboned up. it should help if its carboned up.
When I take my car out on some of the roads I get on it. there are some pretty long 8% inclines at 7-8K feet where I might floor the car in 4th gear the whole 2-3 miles up the mountain where the car can only hit like 90-100mph tops. I also do a lot of other wide open throttle mayhem back there which means I am wide open throttle for perhaps a good 15 minutes to 30 minutes straight (on and off full throttle). water temps at autoX get up to 100-102C max cause of heat soak and I run the car hard at those temps. typically when I am in the mountains the car is in the 78C to 85C range since I have good airflow.
The odometer just rolled over 105k miles a few days ago. She's still running like a champ. I did get a chance to seafoam the car through the intake ports according the procedures shown on this forum. Besides making clouds of smoke so big that people thought my car was on fire, it actually did liven the engine up a bit, it feels more responsive and idles a tad smoother. I'm going to be doing plugs, wires, and a new starter. I'm still not sold on the terrible compression numbers. Also shout out to whoever told me about Rotary Bum bottles, so much more convenient than the tote with premix. If anyone has any more ideas like the decarbonization or other maintenance tasks, I'm all ears and want to make this engine last as long as I can.
I forgot to mention in the initial post, when I purchased the car I performed an oil change and put a more viscous oil 5w-30 instead of the 5w-20 they call for. I saw it on the forums that the reasoning behind 5w-20 was for meeting efficiency standards and that the 5w-30 would benefit the engine more. I also had an AEM CAI installed prior to purchasing the vehicle. Could either of these things affect the compression numbers. I didn't think so, but you never know.
Thanks!
Last edited by RotaryLife99; 08-07-2017 at 07:21 AM.
That's an interesting place to put your Rotary Bum bottles, BTW. I only have one bottle, and I put it in the trunk organizer with all the other stuff I have. In hind sight, I should buy more for my engine oil.
As for the engine oil, I personally just run 5W-20. A common misconception is more viscosity = more protection. That's not necessarily true. The exact viscosity number for the same grade differs a bit between brands, and one brand's 5W-20 may end up being more protective than one brand's 5W-30. 5W-30 will be more stable at higher temperatures, however, so if you live in a warmer climate, 5W-30 will be a better choice. Where I live, 5W-20 is just fine.
How is "protective" defined? You can read this if you want. This is a more scientific way to look at oil than just the "thicker is better" myth.
Either way, it shouldn't skewer with your compression numbers.
I have a question regarding the catalytic converter on my vehicle. I drove it hard the other day and got it up to temp. I noticed that the back was glowing at night, just slightly. I understand that my cat is clogged, so I am in the process of getting it fixed. It looks as though it has already been replaced once because the current one on there is relatively new looking. Is a bad cat the cause of low compression or is low compression the cause of a bad cat? Just curious. I'm taking it off and putting on a catless midpipe regardless.
Typically bad ignition is the cause of a bad cat. Ensure your spark plugs are replaced and your coils/wires are still firing strong. Once the cat gets clogged from the waste product of poor ignition then the back pressure and heat build up slowly deteriorates your engine seals.
My recommendation if you can get away with it is to gut your cat or run a midpipe. If a cat is a must there is one or two great high-flow options (My recommendation: https://black-halo-racing.myshopify....onated-midpipe) but they are pricey.
Typically bad ignition is the cause of a bad cat. Ensure your spark plugs are replaced and your coils/wires are still firing strong. Once the cat gets clogged from the waste product of poor ignition then the back pressure and heat build up slowly deteriorates your engine seals.
My recommendation if you can get away with it is to gut your cat or run a midpipe. If a cat is a must there is one or two great high-flow options (My recommendation: https://black-halo-racing.myshopify....onated-midpipe) but they are pricey.
Thanks for your input. Before I posted about the cat, I actually pulled the trigger on the catless black halo racing midpipe with the single resonator. Everyone was raving about them on here, so I figured why not. I plan on keeping my stock cat for future inspections/emissions tests.
I have new plugs and wires as well. Do you know how to test the ignition coils, I feel like those are either good or bad, no in between. Any thoughts on a test for bad coils?
I have a question regarding the catalytic converter on my vehicle. I drove it hard the other day and got it up to temp. I noticed that the back was glowing at night, just slightly. I understand that my cat is clogged, so I am in the process of getting it fixed. It looks as though it has already been replaced once because the current one on there is relatively new looking. Is a bad cat the cause of low compression or is low compression the cause of a bad cat? Just curious. I'm taking it off and putting on a catless midpipe regardless.
Unfortunately your US Emissions warranty (8 years I think) for the cat has run out. Your best bet as mentioned is to go catless and BHR's product is the best.
Thanks for your input. Before I posted about the cat, I actually pulled the trigger on the catless black halo racing midpipe with the single resonator. Everyone was raving about them on here, so I figured why not. I plan on keeping my stock cat for future inspections/emissions tests.
I have new plugs and wires as well. Do you know how to test the ignition coils, I feel like those are either good or bad, no in between. Any thoughts on a test for bad coils?
You won't regret the midpipe, I've had mine on the turbo setup since 2010 and around 40,000kms.
I recommend doing this test on your coils for starters:
For ignition, you can get a spark tester(like the one RotaryMachineRx showed) from Autozone or some other auto product shops. I saw them in Canadian Tires in my neck of woods.
As for the cat, yes, typically it's caused by failing ignitions, although low compression can also come into play. Rotaries are pretty hard on cats, so make sure your ignition is running well. OEM ones are only good for 30k miles or so. A long term solution is a BHR ignition coil set, which eliminates the need to replace the coils, and they also give off stronger sparks.
Personally, I'd run a cat because I don't want the people behind me to smell the unbearable stink. If you must have a cat, you need to research a bit, since cheap ones will just melt quickly. HJS cat is proven to withstand even track uses(Steve Dallas has one with BHR mid-pipe, which is the setup I want to get eventually), although it's pricey and hard to obtain nowadays(you'd have to order one from Germany).
As promised I have returned to the forum to update all that are curious.
Car is almost at 106k miles.
I have been doing a lot of work to sort out any possible issues that I can control myself.
What I have done so far:
New plugs and wires
New stronger starter
BHR Catless Midpipe
Seafoamed each Rotor Housing
What I have planned:
New Tein Street Basis Z coilovers
New Coils
The slight hot start issues decreased slightly after the seafoam and significantly after the midpipe, plugs&wires, and starter. It is now to the point where the throttle response is even stronger than when I first purchased it. Upon inspection my plugs were toast and my cat had failed significantly to the point where the initial first layer was just bouncing around inside the catalytic converter.
I'm not sure what else needs to be done next besides normal fluid inspection and changes. If anyone has a checklist of items that they normally check/change let me know. I want to keep this engine going as long as I possibly can, so any comments help.
New coils should absolutely be your next priority. The cat was killed by failing coils at some point in the past. Otherwise:
RX8 Club’s recommended maintenance schedule, more comprehensive and proactive than Mazda’s schedule.
30,000 miles:
- Replace Ignition coils
- Replace Plug wires
- Replace Spark plugs
- Clean MAF (mass air flow sensor)
- Clean ESS (e-shaft sensor)
- Reset ESS profile
- Clean power steering connections
- Clean battery terminals and clamps
- Replace transmission fluid
- Replace coolant (Mazda FL-22 is highly recommended)
- Replace air filter
- Replace brake fluid (fluid in the brake lines AND the clutch line)
~$300 USD in parts if you shop smartly.
every 60,000:
...all 30,000, plus...
- Clean all chassis electrical grounding points
- Replace accessory belts
- Clean OMP lines
- Replace rear differential fluid
- Replace thermostat
- Clean / Straighten AC condenser fins
- Clean / Straighten oil cooler fins
- Inspect catalytic converter
- Clean / Inspect intake valving
- Consider / inspect all points in 90,000+ as well, many items fail early
~$130 USD in parts if you shop smartly.
90,000:
...all 30,000, plus any 60,000 not yet done, plus...
- Replace coolant bottle
- Replace radiator hoses
- Replace radiator
- Replace front O2 sensor
- Replace motor mounts
- Inspect clutch pedal assembly for flex / weld breaks
~$900 USD in parts if you shop smartly.
At 100k, anything original in the cooling system is really suspect and failure prone. It represents the biggest threat to your engine.
Also, if you have not read the New Owner sticky in its entirety, you have been cheating yourself.
I just crested 106.5K miles and I have the new coils installed as well as the other components listed in the post above. I have been having an issue that I have seen is quite common, but almost impossible to find a solution too according to the forums. I have been receiving a P0191 code just about every 2nd or 3rd start after I clear the code. This is a Too lean Code. I have a tool to measure all the parameters when this code comes up as well. It only occurs during the start process. I attempted to see if there was a vaccuum leak to no avail and also cleaned the MAF sensor because it was recommended. Due to the CAI and Catless Midpipe Mazda cannot trouble shoot the issue for me.
I also had the O-ring fuel pump recall and lower control arm recall completed recently, but I don't thing those could have caused an issue. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. If I can confirm that the Catless Midpipe is the cause and it won't cause any harm I will ignore the code, but I would really like to solve this problem.
The LTFT plus stft shows something is very much out of whack. As you have an aftermarket Cai and your mass air flow is very low compared to stock , this is the first place to look . More details on what it is might help ...
Is there any possibility that the fuel pump recall could have somehow caused this? I did the catless midpipe, plugs, wires, starter and coils around the same time that I had the recall resolved and that's when it started showing up.
Originally Posted by RotaryMachineRx
You wrote P0191 above, not P0171.... reason for my comment
Your LTFT definitely shows that you are running lean, very hard to diagnose any more than that without real time data though
My bad I didn't realize I put the wrong code. Thanks.
Is there any possibility that the fuel pump recall could have somehow caused this? I did the catless midpipe, plugs, wires, starter and coils around the same time that I had the recall resolved and that's when it started showing up.
My bad I didn't realize I put the wrong code. Thanks.
No. The fuel pump is at the other end of the car from anything related to airflow.
Did you undo the intake to install the coils? Check that you didn't leave any open gaps in the intake after the MAF. The code might be triggering on startup only, but the STFT/LTFT values show at idle show that there is a persistent problem. Both of those values should be 0.
Which CAI is it? If it's the K&N, this is about par for the course, get rid of it.
This problem was occurring before the coils were swapped and I personally never took off the intake.
It's an AEM intake.
I'm starting to think that it has to be a vacuum leak then. That's what everything is pointing to. Those caps for the service ports look like they have been on there since day one. I never thought they may have cracked, but I'm going to try to get new ones and see if the LFTL/STFT stays down after that. It's a shot, but I feel like I am chasing down a problem that could have 100's of different causes.
If those caps don't work, I will get the vacuum system smoked.
This problem was occurring before the coils were swapped and I personally never took off the intake.
It's an AEM intake.
I'm starting to think that it has to be a vacuum leak then. That's what everything is pointing to. Those caps for the service ports look like they have been on there since day one. I never thought they may have cracked, but I'm going to try to get new ones and see if the LFTL/STFT stays down after that. It's a shot, but I feel like I am chasing down a problem that could have 100's of different causes.
If those caps don't work, I will get the vacuum system smoked.
Check that the VFAD nipple on the underside of the throttle body also. Something must have been used to cap it, perhaps that something came off.
07-16-2017, 07:48 PM
It's so sad.
