No power...?
12-08-2015, 09:59 AM
#26
@BigCajun yea, u're right, cabin filters ARE overlooked, but I didn't mention that at all O.o
anyway, i did some more research. Haven't found a concrete answer from the new member sticky's, but there's a high chance my coils and/or my cat are gone... the cat is probably the bigger issue right now. Mechanic didn't take a good look at it when he swapped the engine, but he did say it looked kind of black and clogged on the side that connects to the exhaust manifold. Only way to really find out its condition is to disconnect the piping, and see how much light gets through if we shine something on one end LOL
But I think I'll replace it. Only problem is, I'm debating whether it's gonna last me until new year's or so. I'm like shot for money... if it needs to be fixed ASAP, my only option is a universal MagnaFlow cat... I only drive the car in the weekends. I would totally go catless further down the road, but only when I have someone (or buy myself) an Access port to delete the CEL from the cat. Here in Illinois apparently they only OBDII check the car if it has any lights and you can be out in like 5 minutes.
anyway, i did some more research. Haven't found a concrete answer from the new member sticky's, but there's a high chance my coils and/or my cat are gone... the cat is probably the bigger issue right now. Mechanic didn't take a good look at it when he swapped the engine, but he did say it looked kind of black and clogged on the side that connects to the exhaust manifold. Only way to really find out its condition is to disconnect the piping, and see how much light gets through if we shine something on one end LOL
But I think I'll replace it. Only problem is, I'm debating whether it's gonna last me until new year's or so. I'm like shot for money... if it needs to be fixed ASAP, my only option is a universal MagnaFlow cat... I only drive the car in the weekends. I would totally go catless further down the road, but only when I have someone (or buy myself) an Access port to delete the CEL from the cat. Here in Illinois apparently they only OBDII check the car if it has any lights and you can be out in like 5 minutes.
? You should have done some research here before even changing the engine 
.
12-08-2015, 10:26 AM
#28
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@FunRun8 the old engine was a gonner, either get one w/ lower miles or rebuild it. I figured I'd get a different engine. The old one had 120k miles on it, and just a simple change of apex seals wouldn't have done. I tried looking for some machine shops around me that would at least redo the rotor housings, but no one works w/ rotaries around here. I'll have to find a place sometime in the future, but for now, I got different issues at hand.
Now, I'm thinking, could the actual valve be gunked up? Is there a way to check w/out removing like half the engine bay to get to it? If the current engine has around 50k miles, I wouldn't think that the valve would have that much buildup on it. Unless somehow oil got to it. I DID have to change one or two oil seals cause they were gone, but nowhere near the valve.
I also read here that if the wires for the solenoids are switched, one would get different CEL's. I'm gonna try and take a look at the order of my wires, but I doubt that's an issue.
I'll keep this thread updated as soon as I get things done. Will have to wait a week or two until I can start buying parts or pay for labor.
Now, I'm thinking, could the actual valve be gunked up? Is there a way to check w/out removing like half the engine bay to get to it? If the current engine has around 50k miles, I wouldn't think that the valve would have that much buildup on it. Unless somehow oil got to it. I DID have to change one or two oil seals cause they were gone, but nowhere near the valve.
I also read here that if the wires for the solenoids are switched, one would get different CEL's. I'm gonna try and take a look at the order of my wires, but I doubt that's an issue.
I'll keep this thread updated as soon as I get things done. Will have to wait a week or two until I can start buying parts or pay for labor.
12-08-2015, 09:15 PM
#29
Ok so you misunderstood my post, but for some reason frustratingly that seems to be a common problem? So I'll try to explain further.
So what I was saying is that the mechanic should have done a thorough post mortem forensics on the previous engine since it had issues which caused it to go sour which often stems from several factors not the least of which is possibly a bad cat, so to install a new-ish engine without checking all of those possible factors at least visually while it is disassembled, things like the old cat possibly being clogged etc., then basically that's an oversight that may have definitely comeback to haunt you. Not being a "rotary" mech it seems, he didn't really know what was necessary or how to investigate and identify certain issues?
I'm also dubious about installing critical old parts like coils and spark plugs without knowing with absolute certainty, beyond visually, that they are not part of the original failure. Did you change over the OMP lines? Or did you replace them? What about the oil injectors? Checked or not? Cause at 120k plus miles if they've not been replaced since the engine was new, I'd be very suspicious of them all being in top working order as well. If you're not getting enough lubrication that will also hamper compression and therefore power, especially on the top end, because the oil does more then just lubricate, it also contributes to sealing the combustion chamber, and not getting enough oil speaks for itself and will lead you down the same path all over again.. Are you mixing?
So given that the new engine is now in jeopardy potentially and that's not a good circumstance to be in, especially when already short on change to address the current problem with.
Yes, I'm a talking about the actual SSV in the intake manifold, they get veeery gunked up over time and if it is not opening properly you'll be way down on power. I just pulled an engine apart that was so gunked up with oil and carbon I had to soak the intake for 2 days before I could even get it to move and take it out.
On the SSV removal the only major components that have to be removed really are the battery, air pump and the water pump thermostat housing to check it, it's not that complicated. Battery is just mostly for additional access convenience. At any rate there is no lost effort in removing it and cleaning it, it's likely due and will definitely not be a waste of time and may be the problem.
Crossing those solenoid wires is not so easy, you almost have to be really stubbornly trying to mis-connect them, because of their length and the way the wires develop memory but anything's possible?
So what I was saying is that the mechanic should have done a thorough post mortem forensics on the previous engine since it had issues which caused it to go sour which often stems from several factors not the least of which is possibly a bad cat, so to install a new-ish engine without checking all of those possible factors at least visually while it is disassembled, things like the old cat possibly being clogged etc., then basically that's an oversight that may have definitely comeback to haunt you. Not being a "rotary" mech it seems, he didn't really know what was necessary or how to investigate and identify certain issues?
I'm also dubious about installing critical old parts like coils and spark plugs without knowing with absolute certainty, beyond visually, that they are not part of the original failure. Did you change over the OMP lines? Or did you replace them? What about the oil injectors? Checked or not? Cause at 120k plus miles if they've not been replaced since the engine was new, I'd be very suspicious of them all being in top working order as well. If you're not getting enough lubrication that will also hamper compression and therefore power, especially on the top end, because the oil does more then just lubricate, it also contributes to sealing the combustion chamber, and not getting enough oil speaks for itself and will lead you down the same path all over again.. Are you mixing?
So given that the new engine is now in jeopardy potentially and that's not a good circumstance to be in, especially when already short on change to address the current problem with.
Yes, I'm a talking about the actual SSV in the intake manifold, they get veeery gunked up over time and if it is not opening properly you'll be way down on power. I just pulled an engine apart that was so gunked up with oil and carbon I had to soak the intake for 2 days before I could even get it to move and take it out.
On the SSV removal the only major components that have to be removed really are the battery, air pump and the water pump thermostat housing to check it, it's not that complicated. Battery is just mostly for additional access convenience. At any rate there is no lost effort in removing it and cleaning it, it's likely due and will definitely not be a waste of time and may be the problem.
Crossing those solenoid wires is not so easy, you almost have to be really stubbornly trying to mis-connect them, because of their length and the way the wires develop memory but anything's possible?
Last edited by FunRun8; 12-08-2015 at 09:22 PM.
12-09-2015, 10:48 AM
#30
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Ok, so yes, my mechanic isn't a rotary expert. This was his first (and maybe last, the way he put it XD) rotary swap. He has been in the business for around 15 years now, even worked at a shop, but now he's just doing private in his garage.
He swapped the engine as a whole, so whatever came with the "new" engine, that's what's on the car now. He kept those coils and wires, but took the plugs off the old engine, cause they were in better condition than the ones on the "new" engine. We checked if the coils and the wires work properly by using some device he had that shows a red light when the car is running. If the light sputters, then the things aren't firing properly... IDK what it's called...
Now, as I stated, when "changing the cat" we found out I have a resonated midpipe w/out a CAT, so the cat being the problem that killed the old engine is out of the question. I can ask him further questions as to what you mentioned in the previous post, but knowing he's done several piston engine swaps, I'm sure he would look at the condition of the injectors. I even mentioned that before the swap, saying that I'd want to pre-mix and he said we should throw some fuel system cleaner and stuff (which I did). Now, I'm skeptical about pre-mixing... I have a quart of oil that I bought specifically for that, but I think I'll wait until this issue is fixed before I do that.
As for the SSV, ofc, now I'm using the one in the "new" engine, cause, like I said, he swapped the whole thing at once. I'll have that checked soon. I don't drive the car daily, mostly weekends.
The main issue is that the car takes FOREVER to climb up from 5k to redline. As you can see in the video, I'm in 2nd gear, pedal to the floor, and it's barely budging. Same thing in 1st gear... haven't gotten to try 3rd, haven't been on the highway yet. The car is nimble in the low RPM range, though... it's got enough power to throw the tail out. It quickly climbs to 5k, no problem.
Like I said in my previous posts, I'll update this thread when I get more work done and stuff checked. Until then, it may be a few weeks.
He swapped the engine as a whole, so whatever came with the "new" engine, that's what's on the car now. He kept those coils and wires, but took the plugs off the old engine, cause they were in better condition than the ones on the "new" engine. We checked if the coils and the wires work properly by using some device he had that shows a red light when the car is running. If the light sputters, then the things aren't firing properly... IDK what it's called...
Now, as I stated, when "changing the cat" we found out I have a resonated midpipe w/out a CAT, so the cat being the problem that killed the old engine is out of the question. I can ask him further questions as to what you mentioned in the previous post, but knowing he's done several piston engine swaps, I'm sure he would look at the condition of the injectors. I even mentioned that before the swap, saying that I'd want to pre-mix and he said we should throw some fuel system cleaner and stuff (which I did). Now, I'm skeptical about pre-mixing... I have a quart of oil that I bought specifically for that, but I think I'll wait until this issue is fixed before I do that.
As for the SSV, ofc, now I'm using the one in the "new" engine, cause, like I said, he swapped the whole thing at once. I'll have that checked soon. I don't drive the car daily, mostly weekends.
The main issue is that the car takes FOREVER to climb up from 5k to redline. As you can see in the video, I'm in 2nd gear, pedal to the floor, and it's barely budging. Same thing in 1st gear... haven't gotten to try 3rd, haven't been on the highway yet. The car is nimble in the low RPM range, though... it's got enough power to throw the tail out. It quickly climbs to 5k, no problem.
Like I said in my previous posts, I'll update this thread when I get more work done and stuff checked. Until then, it may be a few weeks.
12-09-2015, 01:34 PM
#31
Ok so I get a sense I've some how offended you by trying to help and get the proper info across directly, your response is a bit snarky and defensive when I was trying to get to the point, so I'll bow out now.. But it sounds like a crudded up SSV not opening or not opening all the way. Good luck with it..
Thank you for the stand up PM Eirulisse, respect.. Have a chance to check out that SSV yet?
Thank you for the stand up PM Eirulisse, respect.. Have a chance to check out that SSV yet?
Last edited by FunRun8; 12-10-2015 at 08:36 PM.
12-30-2015, 08:35 PM
#32
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Hey guys! I got some updates...
I got me my own Bluetooth OBDII scanner and the Torque Pro app! It's awesome! I re-read my CEL codes and dug a little deeper into them. Apparently, from my P2259 it says that Secondary Air Injection System Control B has low circuit (which means it's not running from common knowledge), and my P0661 says Intake Maniford Tuning Valve Control Circuit Low (Bank 1).
From what I read, the secondary air thingy has to do with either the Air pump or the little thing next to it. When I put on my CAT, and turned on the car, the darn thing was going crazy, spewed some smoke, and then calmed down. Although that only regulates my emissions on a cold engine form what I read, so nothing to do with my power loss at high RPM, right? (I will have to get this fixed to pass emissions though X_X).
Now the other thing, that could be the VDI? but in both cases, the solenoids controlling those can be at fault, aka the AIR and VDI solenoids. So I really don't know until I open up the depths of the abyss under my engine bay and find out XD
I also ordered my AEM CAI, so when that gets installed, I'll prolly take apart the whole freaking intake manifold and see what's up. It'll prolly be another few weeks though until next update, cause my schedule is FUBAR and so is my mechanic's.
Any new input is appreciated. Thanks
I got me my own Bluetooth OBDII scanner and the Torque Pro app! It's awesome! I re-read my CEL codes and dug a little deeper into them. Apparently, from my P2259 it says that Secondary Air Injection System Control B has low circuit (which means it's not running from common knowledge), and my P0661 says Intake Maniford Tuning Valve Control Circuit Low (Bank 1).
From what I read, the secondary air thingy has to do with either the Air pump or the little thing next to it. When I put on my CAT, and turned on the car, the darn thing was going crazy, spewed some smoke, and then calmed down. Although that only regulates my emissions on a cold engine form what I read, so nothing to do with my power loss at high RPM, right? (I will have to get this fixed to pass emissions though X_X).
Now the other thing, that could be the VDI? but in both cases, the solenoids controlling those can be at fault, aka the AIR and VDI solenoids. So I really don't know until I open up the depths of the abyss under my engine bay and find out XD
I also ordered my AEM CAI, so when that gets installed, I'll prolly take apart the whole freaking intake manifold and see what's up. It'll prolly be another few weeks though until next update, cause my schedule is FUBAR and so is my mechanic's.
Any new input is appreciated. Thanks
12-30-2015, 11:15 PM
#33
Well For the moment I don't have any, but at least it sounds like you're making headway and it may not be as terminal as originally thought? Did you get to taking out the SSV and or at least check to make sure it's moving freely? You're going the right direction with getting your own code reader system and software, you're really flying blind without it.
01-23-2016, 01:51 PM
#34
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Just a quick update.
I haven't gotten a chance to get the serious business taken care of, just been to my mechanic's place yesterday, but I needed to change some brakes, get an oil change, and a few other minor things. At least I got rid of 1 more CEL light, by taking care of my clutch switch lol. To this day, I don't know why a shorted cable for the clutch switch would give you a CEL... oh well.
I just bought the BHR ignition system, cause I'm sure my current system is dying. Had a rough time starting this really cold Chicago month. It was -20 Celsius outside and the car BARELY started, and when it did, spewed smoke out the back, revved itself to like 3.5k RPM, and eventually let out to more normal idling... Poor thing... But ya, will get the big checkup in maybe a month or less. It's gonna take a whole day of work to take off the UIM, install my new intake, and change the solenoid, along w/ some other stuff I wanna get looked at while we're there.
On a side note, anyone know how I can find out about a tuner or something? Dyno or not, or if he can come to designated addresses? After I get this thing going, I'd most likely need a tune, and I probably need to recalibrate my accel pedal or the throttle, cause it's not opening as much as it should (at least, that's what my Torque app showed... it only showed the throttle open to 76%, but all other cars I tested it on showed around 84%).
I haven't gotten a chance to get the serious business taken care of, just been to my mechanic's place yesterday, but I needed to change some brakes, get an oil change, and a few other minor things. At least I got rid of 1 more CEL light, by taking care of my clutch switch lol. To this day, I don't know why a shorted cable for the clutch switch would give you a CEL... oh well.
I just bought the BHR ignition system, cause I'm sure my current system is dying. Had a rough time starting this really cold Chicago month. It was -20 Celsius outside and the car BARELY started, and when it did, spewed smoke out the back, revved itself to like 3.5k RPM, and eventually let out to more normal idling... Poor thing... But ya, will get the big checkup in maybe a month or less. It's gonna take a whole day of work to take off the UIM, install my new intake, and change the solenoid, along w/ some other stuff I wanna get looked at while we're there.
On a side note, anyone know how I can find out about a tuner or something? Dyno or not, or if he can come to designated addresses? After I get this thing going, I'd most likely need a tune, and I probably need to recalibrate my accel pedal or the throttle, cause it's not opening as much as it should (at least, that's what my Torque app showed... it only showed the throttle open to 76%, but all other cars I tested it on showed around 84%).
02-27-2016, 10:49 PM
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MAJOR UPDATE!
Ok guys, time finally came, and my mechanic and I got to work today. Problem was solved. It was the SSV Solenoid that was malfunctioning. My car now revs to oblivion and back w/ no problem.
The funny thing is, we actually took all the solenoids out and tested them manually, and they all worked. They all redirected the air properly. I think when the faulty one heated up, or, rather, under the engine's vacuum pressure, it would malfunction.
I also managed to install the AEM intake. I love it. I also put in BHR ignition system. The coils I had on my car showed signs of wear, and one of them had a dime sized (if not nickel sized) white spot on the back, so yeah, that one was definitely dead.
I also had the unfortunate opportunity to test my compression. I say unfortunate, because I have mixed feelings about the results. I hit 90 PSI on one rotor and 88-ish on the other. I looked at the graph, and at 250 RPM, that's pretty poor compression. But my RPM needle was below 250, it barely moved off the 0 mark, so it was probably at 150-200 RPM. Even so, at that range the compression should be 100 PSI for good readings, so I'm 10 PSI short (possibly).
So, end of story, and answers for anyone else reading this post in the future, the problem was the SSV solenoid, hence my "Vtec" didn't kick in and give me power in the high RPM range.
Ok guys, time finally came, and my mechanic and I got to work today. Problem was solved. It was the SSV Solenoid that was malfunctioning. My car now revs to oblivion and back w/ no problem.
The funny thing is, we actually took all the solenoids out and tested them manually, and they all worked. They all redirected the air properly. I think when the faulty one heated up, or, rather, under the engine's vacuum pressure, it would malfunction.
I also managed to install the AEM intake. I love it. I also put in BHR ignition system. The coils I had on my car showed signs of wear, and one of them had a dime sized (if not nickel sized) white spot on the back, so yeah, that one was definitely dead.
I also had the unfortunate opportunity to test my compression. I say unfortunate, because I have mixed feelings about the results. I hit 90 PSI on one rotor and 88-ish on the other. I looked at the graph, and at 250 RPM, that's pretty poor compression. But my RPM needle was below 250, it barely moved off the 0 mark, so it was probably at 150-200 RPM. Even so, at that range the compression should be 100 PSI for good readings, so I'm 10 PSI short (possibly).
So, end of story, and answers for anyone else reading this post in the future, the problem was the SSV solenoid, hence my "Vtec" didn't kick in and give me power in the high RPM range.
02-28-2016, 08:35 AM
#36
You gonna eat that?
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Thanks for the update, that's good to hear.
If you really want to know the health of your engine, you need to get a rotary specific compression test from a dealer or a shop that repairs rotaries.
2 sets of 3 numbers for each rotor face.
You want to know the health of your engine before you invest too much more into it.
Also, the white spots don't mean the coil is bad.
You can check it with a timing light or a spark tester.
I think you mentioned before in a post that your mechanic tested them with something that sounded like a timing light.
You've done well with the fixes you did already.
Good work.
If you really want to know the health of your engine, you need to get a rotary specific compression test from a dealer or a shop that repairs rotaries.
2 sets of 3 numbers for each rotor face.
You want to know the health of your engine before you invest too much more into it.
Also, the white spots don't mean the coil is bad.
You can check it with a timing light or a spark tester.
I think you mentioned before in a post that your mechanic tested them with something that sounded like a timing light.
You've done well with the fixes you did already.
Good work.
02-28-2016, 12:50 PM
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Yes, he did test them with that device, I was there when it happened, and they fired properly, but I wanted to get every core component new and working properly so that I can cross stuff off the list. I took it for a drive again today, and it feels like a totally different car. I'll have to see what I do about the engine. My current compression numbers might last me another 20k or 40k miles, or less. I only drive it in the weekends, so anyway I'd only be putting about 2-3k, max 4k miles a year on it. My mechanic said I might want to consider selling it now that it works so that I don't have to go through the rebuild trouble, but idk. I really don't want to get rid of the car of my dreams now that I own it, and if I have to invest in the rebuild myself, personally, I'm ok with it if I know that a rebuild will take me another 70k miles. It's like, what? $1500 for full rebuild kit, another $2000 to do it (including engine demount and remount)? Truth be told it's like buying another car, but I really like it 
After emissions, i gotta put my resonated midpipe back on for more ponies, better sound, and give the engine a little room w/out the CAT in the way.
After emissions, i gotta put my resonated midpipe back on for more ponies, better sound, and give the engine a little room w/out the CAT in the way.
02-28-2016, 02:51 PM
#38
You gonna eat that?
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The figure most people quote with a professional rebuild is around $5k.
You don't want to trust it to just anyone, as even though it seems simple, from what I gather, it's a very precise process.
Don't pay someone to rebuild it that's never done it.
Many take the time and trouble to remove the engine and ship them to proven rebuilders.
You can pay a good mechanic to remove it and install it back after it's been rebuilt.
You don't want to trust it to just anyone, as even though it seems simple, from what I gather, it's a very precise process.
Don't pay someone to rebuild it that's never done it.
Many take the time and trouble to remove the engine and ship them to proven rebuilders.
You can pay a good mechanic to remove it and install it back after it's been rebuilt.
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