New member with questions.
08-26-2013, 11:19 AM
#1
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New member with questions.
I have a 2004 Rx8 (manual trans, grand touring) that has been giving me some trouble lately. I’m too new to post a new thread concerning my issues and I really need some answers as soon as possible. I have handed the stealership $240 and revived exactly zero answers in return. I’ve already scoured other threads that addressed problems similar to mine but none of their suggestions have worked for me so far. Any suggestions as to how I should continue across this forum will be greatly appreciated!
08-26-2013, 11:23 AM
#2
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I have a 2004 Rx8 (manual trans, grand touring) that has been giving me some trouble lately. I’m too new to post a new thread concerning my issues and I really need some answers as soon as possible. I have handed the stealership $240 and revived exactly zero answers in return. I’ve already scoured other threads that addressed problems similar to mine but none of their suggestions have worked for me so far. Any suggestions as to how I should continue across this forum will be greatly appreciated!
08-26-2013, 11:25 AM
#3
You gonna eat that?
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I have a 2004 Rx8 (manual trans, grand touring) that has been giving me some trouble lately. I’m too new to post a new thread concerning my issues and I really need some answers as soon as possible. I have handed the stealership $240 and revived exactly zero answers in return. I’ve already scoured other threads that addressed problems similar to mine but none of their suggestions have worked for me so far. Any suggestions as to how I should continue across this forum will be greatly appreciated!
A specific question may be helpful.
08-26-2013, 11:25 AM
#4
08-26-2013, 12:01 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Sorry guys, I wasn’t sure if this was the appropriate place to post things besides general questions concerning how the rx8 club forum works.
Anyways, My car has been going in and out of limp home mode for the past couple of weeks. I took it to my local dealership and they told me they didn’t find anything since all of the CEL codes they pulled were related to my Agency Power exhaust/cat-less mid pipe and would not put the vehicle into limp mode. They told me to do the 20 pump brake pedal if the issue came back (told me it shouldn’t), took my money and sent me on my way. Car worked fine for about 3 days then it came back. Did the brake pedal reset memory thing car works fine for a day. Then it got to the point where I would have to do the brake pump reset each time I wanted to go anywhere after turning the engine off. I went to Chicago over the weekend and the car sat in my garage. It is now permanetly stuck in limp mode. It will come out of limp for about 10 seconds after 2 or more 20 brake pedal pump resets then it goes back to limp (revs very slowly to max of about 5.5k while parked, top speed of 11 mph in first). After clearing codes by disconnecting battery the car ran fine (revved to 9k no misfires or anything) for 3 seconds then CEL came back on and car went back to limp.
These are the CEL codes that were left after reset and driving the vehicle about 4 miles in limp mode.
P0102- Mass Air Flow circuit low input
PO113- Intake Temp circuit high input
P2259-Air solenoid valve circuit low on 2 CCM
Took it to a general mechanic shop down the street and they found and fixed a minor vacuum leak. After that car would not idle by itself for a little bit (had to keep foot on gas pedal or engine would eventually die). It now idles fine but the car is still stuck in limp with same 3 CEL codes.
2004 rx8 Grand touring
-107,055 miles
-Passed compression test
-Plugs and ignition coils replaced at 98k still look fine
-Cleaned gunk off MAF sensor, didn’t help
-stock besides Agency Power exhaust/cat-less mid pipe
-no misfires idles perfectly
Anyways, My car has been going in and out of limp home mode for the past couple of weeks. I took it to my local dealership and they told me they didn’t find anything since all of the CEL codes they pulled were related to my Agency Power exhaust/cat-less mid pipe and would not put the vehicle into limp mode. They told me to do the 20 pump brake pedal if the issue came back (told me it shouldn’t), took my money and sent me on my way. Car worked fine for about 3 days then it came back. Did the brake pedal reset memory thing car works fine for a day. Then it got to the point where I would have to do the brake pump reset each time I wanted to go anywhere after turning the engine off. I went to Chicago over the weekend and the car sat in my garage. It is now permanetly stuck in limp mode. It will come out of limp for about 10 seconds after 2 or more 20 brake pedal pump resets then it goes back to limp (revs very slowly to max of about 5.5k while parked, top speed of 11 mph in first). After clearing codes by disconnecting battery the car ran fine (revved to 9k no misfires or anything) for 3 seconds then CEL came back on and car went back to limp.
These are the CEL codes that were left after reset and driving the vehicle about 4 miles in limp mode.
P0102- Mass Air Flow circuit low input
PO113- Intake Temp circuit high input
P2259-Air solenoid valve circuit low on 2 CCM
Took it to a general mechanic shop down the street and they found and fixed a minor vacuum leak. After that car would not idle by itself for a little bit (had to keep foot on gas pedal or engine would eventually die). It now idles fine but the car is still stuck in limp with same 3 CEL codes.
2004 rx8 Grand touring
-107,055 miles
-Passed compression test
-Plugs and ignition coils replaced at 98k still look fine
-Cleaned gunk off MAF sensor, didn’t help
-stock besides Agency Power exhaust/cat-less mid pipe
-no misfires idles perfectly
Last edited by onestrokewonder; 08-26-2013 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Replied with same answer twice
08-26-2013, 12:06 PM
#6
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Can you define exactly what happens when it's in "limp mode"? There are several versions of limp mode that can help indicate what is triggering it. Additionally, sometimes new members think it's limp mode, when it actually isn't.
Offhand though, it sounds like MAF failure. Know anyone else in the area with an RX-8? Try looking for a regional thread in the midwest subforum to see if anyone nearby would let you try their MAF briefly before buying a brand new one. Do you get the feeling like the engine is flooding out with excess fuel? Stumbling and sputtering, possibly gas pooling from the exhaust tips? Or is is really really really impossibly smooth with a gradual drop in power?
Have you cleaned the ESS? Resetting the profile may not help you if there is junk on it that is throwing the sensor off.
Offhand though, it sounds like MAF failure. Know anyone else in the area with an RX-8? Try looking for a regional thread in the midwest subforum to see if anyone nearby would let you try their MAF briefly before buying a brand new one. Do you get the feeling like the engine is flooding out with excess fuel? Stumbling and sputtering, possibly gas pooling from the exhaust tips? Or is is really really really impossibly smooth with a gradual drop in power?
Have you cleaned the ESS? Resetting the profile may not help you if there is junk on it that is throwing the sensor off.
08-26-2013, 12:32 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
My “Limp mode”: Will not rev past 5.5k, I have noticed if it is hot out (high 80’s+) the revs will sometimes not reach past 4k. Top speed of about 50 mph in 6th gear after a long and slow series of gear changes. Contrary to some of the info I’ve come across in other threads concerning limp mode, my car does not rev to 5.5k and then act like it’s reached the 9K+ fuel supply limit. It revs slowly to 5.5k and sounds powerless while doing so. it idles perfectly and does’t stutter or anything. If I hold the gas pedal steady in the 2-5k rpm range I notice that the rpm needle will rise a about 300 rpm then fall back down to 2500 or whatever I’m holding my foot at. Throttle body (or whatever then thing connected to the intake is called) has full range while in limp.
There is a significant amount of low, soft sounding back fire if I suddenly release the gas pedal when the revs reach 4k+(roommate claims it spits a quick series of small blueish/yellow flames while backfiring). The back fire does not sound anything like the quick, aggressive, "whap!” that usually accompanies a gear shift at 7k + when the car functioned properly. When I do get if out of limp mode the engine spits flames every time I release then tap the gas pedal over 5k. Proir to my current issues the car would be hard pressed to dump flames out of the exhaust while parked, doing so required a perfect gear change above 7k.
I do not beat the crap out of my pride and joy very often. 7k+ revs happened twice a week at most when the car functioned properly.
There is a significant amount of low, soft sounding back fire if I suddenly release the gas pedal when the revs reach 4k+(roommate claims it spits a quick series of small blueish/yellow flames while backfiring). The back fire does not sound anything like the quick, aggressive, "whap!” that usually accompanies a gear shift at 7k + when the car functioned properly. When I do get if out of limp mode the engine spits flames every time I release then tap the gas pedal over 5k. Proir to my current issues the car would be hard pressed to dump flames out of the exhaust while parked, doing so required a perfect gear change above 7k.
I do not beat the crap out of my pride and joy very often. 7k+ revs happened twice a week at most when the car functioned properly.
Last edited by onestrokewonder; 08-26-2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason: grammar issues
08-26-2013, 12:41 PM
#8
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Ok, that doesn't sound like any limp mode. All limp modes are actual hard limits on RPM and/or throttle that are very precise, and until you hit those limits it acts perfectly fine. For example a throttle pedal failure sticks the RPM at exactly 3,000rpm and locks it there, regardless of what you do. OMP limp mode I believe is a 4,000rpm hard limit, etc...
Since you are getting up to the limit without any studdering or stumbling, I'd point at a clogged cat, expect you already noted that you don't have one. So instead I'm expecting that you are running WAY lean, the engine is just simply not injecting fuel. It idles fine, but as the RPMs come up, no additional fuel is being injected. This will KILL your ability to make power in a gradual slope as RPMs increase and the AFR gets leaner and leaner. If it was flooding out and choking on fuel, it has a similar impact on the ability to make power, but the loss of power is very lumpy and full of spits, burps, stumbles, etc... as the ignition managers to fire the mixture with varying degrees of success.
I'm sticking with a MAF failure. Low MAF voltage means low air flow, high MAF voltage means high airflow. So if you have a MAF failure that is locking the voltage low (as the code suggests), then you are flowing more and more air with higher RPMs, but the ECU doesn't know this, so it's not injecting any more fuel.
If the MAF was "High input", the opposite would happen, the ECU would think you are flowing tons of air and be flooding the engine with far more fuel than it should be (i had that problem at one point)
See if you can swap MAFs with someone else in the area to confirm.
Since you are getting up to the limit without any studdering or stumbling, I'd point at a clogged cat, expect you already noted that you don't have one. So instead I'm expecting that you are running WAY lean, the engine is just simply not injecting fuel. It idles fine, but as the RPMs come up, no additional fuel is being injected. This will KILL your ability to make power in a gradual slope as RPMs increase and the AFR gets leaner and leaner. If it was flooding out and choking on fuel, it has a similar impact on the ability to make power, but the loss of power is very lumpy and full of spits, burps, stumbles, etc... as the ignition managers to fire the mixture with varying degrees of success.
I'm sticking with a MAF failure. Low MAF voltage means low air flow, high MAF voltage means high airflow. So if you have a MAF failure that is locking the voltage low (as the code suggests), then you are flowing more and more air with higher RPMs, but the ECU doesn't know this, so it's not injecting any more fuel.
If the MAF was "High input", the opposite would happen, the ECU would think you are flowing tons of air and be flooding the engine with far more fuel than it should be (i had that problem at one point)
See if you can swap MAFs with someone else in the area to confirm.
08-26-2013, 12:48 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Ok, that doesn't sound like any limp mode. All limp modes are actual hard limits on RPM and/or throttle that are very precise, and until you hit those limits it acts perfectly fine. For example a throttle pedal failure sticks the RPM at exactly 3,000rpm and locks it there, regardless of what you do. OMP limp mode I believe is a 4,000rpm hard limit, etc...
Since you are getting up to the limit without any studdering or stumbling, I'd point at a clogged cat, expect you already noted that you don't have one. So instead I'm expecting that you are running WAY lean, the engine is just simply not injecting fuel. It idles fine, but as the RPMs come up, no additional fuel is being injected. This will KILL your ability to make power in a gradual slope as RPMs increase and the AFR gets leaner and leaner. If it was flooding out and choking on fuel, it has a similar impact on the ability to make power, but the loss of power is very lumpy and full of spits, burps, stumbles, etc... as the ignition managers to fire the mixture with varying degrees of success.
I'm sticking with a MAF failure. Low MAF voltage means low air flow, high MAF voltage means high airflow. So if you have a MAF failure that is locking the voltage low (as the code suggests), then you are flowing more and more air with higher RPMs, but the ECU doesn't know this, so it's not injecting any more fuel.
If the MAF was "High input", the opposite would happen, the ECU would think you are flowing tons of air and be flooding the engine with far more fuel than it should be (i had that problem at one point)
See if you can swap MAFs with someone else in the area to confirm.
Since you are getting up to the limit without any studdering or stumbling, I'd point at a clogged cat, expect you already noted that you don't have one. So instead I'm expecting that you are running WAY lean, the engine is just simply not injecting fuel. It idles fine, but as the RPMs come up, no additional fuel is being injected. This will KILL your ability to make power in a gradual slope as RPMs increase and the AFR gets leaner and leaner. If it was flooding out and choking on fuel, it has a similar impact on the ability to make power, but the loss of power is very lumpy and full of spits, burps, stumbles, etc... as the ignition managers to fire the mixture with varying degrees of success.
I'm sticking with a MAF failure. Low MAF voltage means low air flow, high MAF voltage means high airflow. So if you have a MAF failure that is locking the voltage low (as the code suggests), then you are flowing more and more air with higher RPMs, but the ECU doesn't know this, so it's not injecting any more fuel.
If the MAF was "High input", the opposite would happen, the ECU would think you are flowing tons of air and be flooding the engine with far more fuel than it should be (i had that problem at one point)
See if you can swap MAFs with someone else in the area to confirm.
08-29-2013, 11:00 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Swapped MAF’s with my friend. My mass air flow sensor functions perfectly in his Rx8. My car is still stuck in limp. It revs fine for the first 10 seconds after starting or until I put the car in gear then it won’t rev past 5k. If its hot out my car will often times not rev past 3000 rpm. I don’t know what to do at this point. After $240 of diagnostics my local mazda dealership told me they didn’t know what is up with my car and then handed me a $2200 quote on replacing a collection of items that would “hopefully fix the problem”. Every time I remove battery cables, do brake pedal pump, and restart the car the check engine light comes back on in within 10 seconds (Codes below) and the car can’t idle (revs slowly drop then it dies but it starts right back up) without me pushing the gas for the first 5 or so minutes. depending on the outside air temperature; the max I can rev it is between 2 and 5.5k. Small vacuum leak was fixed and my problems still exist. Compression test passed with flying colors.
P0102- Mass Air Flow circuit low input
PO113- Intake Temp circuit high input
P2259-Air solenoid valve circuit low on 2 CCM
P0102- Mass Air Flow circuit low input
PO113- Intake Temp circuit high input
P2259-Air solenoid valve circuit low on 2 CCM
Last edited by onestrokewonder; 08-29-2013 at 11:02 PM.
08-30-2013, 04:55 AM
#11
You gonna eat that?
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Swapped MAF’s with my friend. My mass air flow sensor functions perfectly in his Rx8. My car is still stuck in limp. It revs fine for the first 10 seconds after starting or until I put the car in gear then it won’t rev past 5k. If its hot out my car will often times not rev past 3000 rpm. I don’t know what to do at this point. After $240 of diagnostics my local mazda dealership told me they didn’t know what is up with my car and then handed me a $2200 quote on replacing a collection of items that would “hopefully fix the problem”. Every time I remove battery cables, do brake pedal pump, and restart the car the check engine light comes back on in within 10 seconds (Codes below) and the car can’t idle (revs slowly drop then it dies but it starts right back up) without me pushing the gas for the first 5 or so minutes. depending on the outside air temperature; the max I can rev it is between 2 and 5.5k. Small vacuum leak was fixed and my problems still exist. Compression test passed with flying colors.
P0102- Mass Air Flow circuit low input
PO113- Intake Temp circuit high input
P2259-Air solenoid valve circuit low on 2 CCM
P0102- Mass Air Flow circuit low input
PO113- Intake Temp circuit high input
P2259-Air solenoid valve circuit low on 2 CCM
That might relate to the other 2 affecting the intake?
Just a guess.
Good luck.
08-30-2013, 07:01 AM
#12
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The P0102 is pretty specific. Start checking wiring between the MAF and the ECU.
From the OEM documentation for this code:
http://foxed.ca/rx7manual/2003mazdarx8/
Engine -> Control System -> P0102
For the full article
From the OEM documentation for this code:
MAF sensor malfunction
Connector or terminal malfunction
Open circuit in wiring harness between main relay terminal C and MAF/IAT sensor terminal A
Short to ground in wiring harness between main relay terminal C and MAF/IAT sensor terminal A
Open circuit in wiring harness between MAF/IAT sensor terminal C and PCM terminal 5N
Short to ground in wiring harness between MAF/IAT sensor terminal C and PCM terminal 5N
PCM malfunction
Connector or terminal malfunction
Open circuit in wiring harness between main relay terminal C and MAF/IAT sensor terminal A
Short to ground in wiring harness between main relay terminal C and MAF/IAT sensor terminal A
Open circuit in wiring harness between MAF/IAT sensor terminal C and PCM terminal 5N
Short to ground in wiring harness between MAF/IAT sensor terminal C and PCM terminal 5N
PCM malfunction
Engine -> Control System -> P0102
For the full article
Last edited by RIWWP; 08-30-2013 at 07:11 AM.
09-01-2013, 04:51 PM
#13
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The P0102 is pretty specific. Start checking wiring between the MAF and the ECU.
From the OEM documentation for this code:
M A Z D A
Engine -> Control System -> P0102
For the full article
From the OEM documentation for this code:
M A Z D A
Engine -> Control System -> P0102
For the full article
Last edited by onestrokewonder; 09-01-2013 at 04:54 PM.
09-04-2013, 11:42 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
I got tired of my local dealership trying to milk me for every penny I was worth so i took my car to an Audi dealership that’s know for having reputable techs. They identified the problem as Oil Metering Pump failure. I refuse to pay $1800 for a new one/ labor at Mazda so I’m going to try and use some of the DIYs from the thread on OMP failure or swap it out for a mazdamart unit. Reguardless, thanks for all the opinions and suggestions. I appreciate your collective kindness.
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