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I bought an S2 in great shape, engine may need rebuilt... DONE :-)
This has turned into sort of an RX purchase / rebuild chronicle. Mods may want to move it to the Series 2 forum.
Scroll down to #7 for the solution to the James Bond style smoking issue. Questions about this problem is the original reason for this post. The resolution to that problem is pretty interesting. Spoiler: it was NOT due to internal engine issues.
I did decide to have the engine rebuilt by Rotary Resurrection. Pics below show the car as well as the engine tear down / rebuild.
Like the title says, I recently bought myself a 2009 Grand Touring package in Galaxy Gray. It's loaded out and in remarkably good condition with 94,XXX miles.
Read the last sentence of this if you want me to get to the point or read on for details.
Interestingly it is a series 2 (has the elo instrumentation, triangle turn signal side lights, rectangular fogs, etc.) even though it has an April of 2008 build date on the door sill plate. When I first started researching these I thought that series 2 models started in November of 2008. I then read that Mazda began production of the S2 in April of that year after having the factory shut down for a few months for retooling. I guess that makes mine one of the first ones.
I got it cheap because the woman I bought it from said it suddenly started billowing smoke as she was driving it. She said she was about a mile from home so she drove it there and parked it. She said it never overheated but she was afraid the engine was shot. She lost her job around the same time so she just wanted rid of it.
I was able to start it and drive it on and off the car hauler I rented to get it to my house but that little bit is all I've run it. To say it smokes like a chimney is an understatement. This thing billows great plumes of bluish smoke to the point that nearby observers reach for their phones and birds loose their ability to navigate. In the 5 minutes it ran at my house I'm convinced that I've eradicated all mosquitoes for a one mile radius.
Anyway, the smoke is most definitely produced by oil. It smells like burnt oil and is so excessive that oil is dripping out of the tailpipes. The oil level is at the low end of the normal range on the dipstick. The coolant level is good. I consider myself to be a very competent do-it-yourselfer and have successfully undertaken and completed many, many automotive projects over the years. This is my first foray into the world of rotary engines and I'm looking forward to learning. In the crash course I've given myself in the last few days I've come to the conclusion that the issue is most likely the oil control rings. I haven't looked in the airbox yet so I don't know if there is oil where it shouldn't be.
I'm going to pull the engine myself. After that I'm debating whether to rebuild it myself or have it done professionally. There is a very reputable (from what I can find out) rotary rebuilder only an hour from my house. Anyone have experience rebuilding these themselves? Any suggestions, thoughts, or pitfalls with this particular engine?
Thanks in advance and thanks for such a great site.
Last edited by EarlyS2; 09-25-2020 at 03:28 AM.
Reason: Update
Welcome aboard.
Is there oil in the intake tract? That's usually what causes smoke billowing. It's not supposed to happen, but as the engine ages, blow by can force oil up the PCV and into the intake. While annoying, it's not the end of the engine. All depends on the compression test.
I would be surprised if it's the OMP(s), but being a series 2 with the EOMPs you should get Mazda to scan it for Mazda-specific check engine codes. If they're having trouble your car should be in limp mode and not go about 3000rpm.
I would STRONGLY suggest you not rebuild it yourself. You don't generally want to put new seals into your big parts, what you want is a known good collection of good seals and good big parts, which gets real expensive. Rebuilders typically collect confirmed good parts and assemble their rebuilds out of those. Go with that. Mazda can provide you an engine as well, the choice is down to total cost of replacement including labour, delivery, etc.
Is the rebuilder you mentioned Rotary Resurrection? You may want to go visit him, he can do the proper comp test, code scane and help diagnose at the same time.
I've not had a chance to check out the intake. I've read that that should be part of my troubleshooting and fully intend to.
The rebuilder IS Rotary Resurrection. With the mileage on this engine (I'm assuming it's all original) I had resigned myself to a rebuild. Maybe I'll get lucky. I guess it would be worth the time and little bit of expense to trailer the entire car to Rotary Resurrection and get it checked. I'll email and see what it takes to get that set up.
Thanks for the advise!
Loki,
I haven't had time yet to check the intake. I plan on doing that this evening.
I appreciate the insight into the rebuild. I will most likely leave it to a professional. And yes, Rotary Resurrection is the rebuilder I would consider. Upon your advice I've emailed him to see if I can bring the car by (trailered of course) and have him compression check it and give it an assessment. I'm waiting for his response.
Thanks.
I checked the fuse on my car that is referenced in the post and, sure enough, it was blown! This fuse is rated at 15 amps and is located in the under-hood fuse box.
Turns out it WAS over-delivery of oil by the OMPs (there are 2 on a series 2). The pumps were dumping oil because the fuse that was blown supplies power to the OCV and rear O2 sensor. Apparently the fail-safe for the system is to send the OMPs into wide open mode if the OCV should fail. A new fuse got the system working again.
The reason my fuse was blown: The woman I bought it from said she had recently had a catalytic converter put on by a local muffler shop. She said she did this because the person she had bought it from told her he had "gutted" the cat and she thought it should be put back. Fast forward to this morning when I finally found time to climb under the car. I found that not only was the cat VERY poorly welded but that the 02 sensor wires were cut, the ends stripped, and just hanging in the transmission tunnel. One of the 4 wires must have shorted, as described in the post above.
I now have to try to find a donor harness so that I can re-terminate the wires. If I can't do that I'll have to just hard-wire in an O2 sensor. The car still has O2 sensor error codes of course and idle is a bit rough. I will probably also replace the cat with a better quality one.
Oh and yes, I will still get a compression test to be sure that I don't have bigger problems.
Compression test performed. Numbers in the 80s (psi) on both rotors, all faces. At least it appears to be consistent wear so hopefully no surprises in the rebuild.
Interesting coincidence. I also have a 04/2008 build date.
That is interesting. Same color and both Grand Touring models. Both of ours from the southeast too (assuming yours was originally sold in Alabama). Things that make you go hmmmm...
Compression test performed. Numbers in the 80s (psi) on both rotors, all faces. At least it appears to be consistent wear so hopefully no surprises in the rebuild.
Sounds like new engine time to me. Thats only 5.5 bar, it won't run well or for long.
No it won't. Thankfully Rotary Resurrection is just up the road from me. The only reason I'm considering "resurrecting" it, is because it's in such good condition.
No it won't. Thankfully Rotary Resurrection is just up the road from me. The only reason I'm considering "resurrecting" it, is because it's in such good condition.
Okay folks, update time. I heard from Kevin at Rotary Resurrection. He got my engine pulled and torn down and shared his thoughts with me via email today. I'm including the photos he made available to me. The good news is that my engine is in generally good, rebuildable, condition. As Kevin explained it to me: "The block is composed of 8 major components, 6 appear to be fine to reuse with mild wear, pending further cleaning and inspection." That's the good news. The bad news is in the condition of the remaining 2 components: the rotor housings. Mine aren't in good condition and Kevin rates them as grade D to C minus. They could be reused but doing so would place this in the "budget build" category. This car's condition is quite nice and I'd like the engine build to match sooo...
I gave Kevin the go-ahead to replace the rotor housings with new. Hopefully this will contribute to many years of future zoom zoom!
And here's today's teaching moment with some visual evidence for any doubters out there: CHANGE YOUR OIL!!! Kevin put it quite well when he said: "The main bearings were worn more than usual and not too far from spinning/failing completely, which indicates the oil change history was probably poor. Someone treated it like a "regular car" and ran higher oil change intervals than the engine needed so that needs to be improved going forward. The main bearings get replaced during all renesis builds regardless, so it's no issue."
Anyway, I'll keep this post updated as things move forward.
Now without further ado... PICS!!!
Interesting. I wonder if the engine was premixed at all or if it survived strictly on the stock oil metering system.
If Kevin's speculation regarding the PO's oil change mentality is correct then I'm thinking that pre-mixing wasn't even considered. It was a two-owner car though so perhaps it was better maintained by one of the two. I'm just glad that it's not worse.
As I suspected. Big chunks of carbon built up in the points of the exhaust ports.If I ever build a Renesis I'm going to have those exhaust ports polished.
08-03-2020, 08:39 AM
