Car in shop Compression problems?
12-29-2014, 04:44 PM
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Car in shop Compression problems?
I recently moved out of state and did not bring my AT 2005 RX8 with me. I wanted to have it checked out before I shipped it from michigan to California. Naturally the person I tasked thought it would be cool to start it every week and the car stalled and never started again. I assume it flooded because the battery was weak. I ordered a new battery. Mazda dealership in Kalamazoo didn't have anyone who works on rx8's so I finally found a place called Halli's Auto.
Took him a week to look at it. He said it needed new plugs. My plugs have less than 1000 miles on them. I wanted a compression test... he said there was so compression so he would wait til the morning to change the plugs to see if he can started and maybe do a test. I guess he put chemicals in it to bring up the compression. Does this sound right to anyone?
Took him a week to look at it. He said it needed new plugs. My plugs have less than 1000 miles on them. I wanted a compression test... he said there was so compression so he would wait til the morning to change the plugs to see if he can started and maybe do a test. I guess he put chemicals in it to bring up the compression. Does this sound right to anyone?
12-29-2014, 04:50 PM
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Does it sound like a typical corner shop who has no actual idea what is going on with a flood and what needs to be addressed? Yes.
Does it sound like a wise course of action? No.
Tell him to ...
1) hook up the car to jumper pack or another car to keep the battery from dying out
2) hold the gas pedal to the floor, and keep it there
3) Crank for 5-10 seconds
4) let the starter rest for 5-10 seconds
5) repeat 3-4 10 times
6) let the starter rest for a few minutes
7) repeat 3-6
8) let up the gas pedal
9) try starting normally
if it doesn't start but coughs, repeat 3-9. If it still doesn't start after a 2nd round of 3-9, then there is a deeper problem that needs to be solved, and it won't just "be the plugs".
If he wishes, he can pull the plugs after 8 and squirt a bit of ATF into each housing, which will temporarily restore the compression that was lost when the oil film was washed away from the flooding.
If he tested the compression with a standard analog compression tester, it is entirely possible he did the test completely wrong (which is typical for non-rotary shops, and one particularly common wrong way will always produce a "zero compression" result), and even if he tested it "right", the numbers he would produce are not actually useful since the numbers will vary on current air density and the cranking speed of the test (which isn't captured with an analog tester), and on top of that, you need 3 different pressure numbers for each rotor, 1 pressure number is useless.
If you want, point him to this thread and we can help educate him.
Does it sound like a wise course of action? No.
Tell him to ...
1) hook up the car to jumper pack or another car to keep the battery from dying out
2) hold the gas pedal to the floor, and keep it there
3) Crank for 5-10 seconds
4) let the starter rest for 5-10 seconds
5) repeat 3-4 10 times
6) let the starter rest for a few minutes
7) repeat 3-6
8) let up the gas pedal
9) try starting normally
if it doesn't start but coughs, repeat 3-9. If it still doesn't start after a 2nd round of 3-9, then there is a deeper problem that needs to be solved, and it won't just "be the plugs".
If he wishes, he can pull the plugs after 8 and squirt a bit of ATF into each housing, which will temporarily restore the compression that was lost when the oil film was washed away from the flooding.
If he tested the compression with a standard analog compression tester, it is entirely possible he did the test completely wrong (which is typical for non-rotary shops, and one particularly common wrong way will always produce a "zero compression" result), and even if he tested it "right", the numbers he would produce are not actually useful since the numbers will vary on current air density and the cranking speed of the test (which isn't captured with an analog tester), and on top of that, you need 3 different pressure numbers for each rotor, 1 pressure number is useless.
If you want, point him to this thread and we can help educate him.
12-29-2014, 05:09 PM
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Thank you. I well try and tell him this first thing in the morning. He was recommended. The only one that I could find that would even work on it. I just found it shady that he is talking about putting a new engine in it before really trying to get it started. Not to mention I called him. Its frustrating.
12-29-2014, 05:12 PM
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Shrug, if he refuses to listen, take back your car. I acknowledge the difficulty of that being across the country from it, but you are under no obligation to accept his determination of the problem.
12-29-2014, 05:17 PM
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You gonna eat that?
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Thank you. I well try and tell him this first thing in the morning. He was recommended. The only one that I could find that would even work on it. I just found it shady that he is talking about putting a new engine in it before really trying to get it started. Not to mention I called him. Its frustrating.
12-30-2014, 08:26 PM
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Yeah he got it started this morning. "ohhhh I had to use new plugs... Labor and suplies you are looking at $400" I'm like man what time did you start this morning? This is just so I can do a compression test to see if I will even keep the car.
12-31-2014, 01:57 PM
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Yeah, that starter speed indicates that the starter was on the verge of failure.
If that 4.3 on the rear rotor isn't a typo, then yeah, the engine fails on that value, as well as the difference between the 4.3 and 6.1 (greatest allowed is 1.2, and my personal opinion is that even that is too high). Indicates a probable side seal problem on that rotor face. The front rotor isn't good, but it would probably be just fine with a better starter.
If that 4.3 on the rear rotor isn't a typo, then yeah, the engine fails on that value, as well as the difference between the 4.3 and 6.1 (greatest allowed is 1.2, and my personal opinion is that even that is too high). Indicates a probable side seal problem on that rotor face. The front rotor isn't good, but it would probably be just fine with a better starter.
12-31-2014, 02:11 PM
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Yeah, that starter speed indicates that the starter was on the verge of failure.
If that 4.3 on the rear rotor isn't a typo, then yeah, the engine fails on that value, as well as the difference between the 4.3 and 6.1 (greatest allowed is 1.2, and my personal opinion is that even that is too high). Indicates a probable side seal problem on that rotor face. The front rotor isn't good, but it would probably be just fine with a better starter.
If that 4.3 on the rear rotor isn't a typo, then yeah, the engine fails on that value, as well as the difference between the 4.3 and 6.1 (greatest allowed is 1.2, and my personal opinion is that even that is too high). Indicates a probable side seal problem on that rotor face. The front rotor isn't good, but it would probably be just fine with a better starter.
12-31-2014, 02:23 PM
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With a 280-300rpm starter, that engine should start and run fine for another 10,000-20,000 miles, and running a bunch of seafoam through (via the gas tank and normal driving) or a serious steam cleaning might solve that one side seal. MIGHT. It may not. Depends on the reason for it's low score.
I would hope that you disclose that to any new buyer though.
I would hope that you disclose that to any new buyer though.
12-31-2014, 02:30 PM
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With a 280-300rpm starter, that engine should start and run fine for another 10,000-20,000 miles, and running a bunch of seafoam through (via the gas tank and normal driving) or a serious steam cleaning might solve that one side seal. MIGHT. It may not. Depends on the reason for it's low score.
I would hope that you disclose that to any new buyer though.
I would hope that you disclose that to any new buyer though.
12-31-2014, 03:27 PM
#14
Mine failed about a month ago. Picked this up for $80
12-31-2014, 04:04 PM
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12-31-2014, 05:51 PM
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Yes, though i think you will need to register it there unless you qualify to keep it registered elsewhere, like military. My sister moved to CA and was trying to keep her registration in Minnesota, and ended up getting nailed by CA for not registering it in CA.
12-31-2014, 07:22 PM
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I can't win. I'm essentially paying to fix up a car to see if its drivable. Which it may not be. Then CA is going to get me on the taxes and other charges. I love the rx8 but it might be time to part ways.
01-26-2015, 03:19 PM
#25
depends on where you are, and what is causing low compression.
You might want to talk to:
Kevin at: Rotary Resurrection
or Mazda Repair Services | 770.859.9643 | MAZCARE
or Atkins Rotary - Rx7 | Rx8 | Mazda | Rotary | Engine | Parts
If you want more go and can spend more $$$
Pettit Racing RX7 & RX8 Parts, Service & Performance
or Black Halo Racing
or Pineapple Racing
or Drummond Engines 541.761.5520
You might want to talk to:
Kevin at: Rotary Resurrection
or Mazda Repair Services | 770.859.9643 | MAZCARE
or Atkins Rotary - Rx7 | Rx8 | Mazda | Rotary | Engine | Parts
If you want more go and can spend more $$$
Pettit Racing RX7 & RX8 Parts, Service & Performance
or Black Halo Racing
or Pineapple Racing
or Drummond Engines 541.761.5520