Mantis Tips for Turbos
11-09-2007, 09:42 AM
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Mantis Tips for Turbos
I have an 04 RX8 which I am crazy about 
and it is non turbo. It has a few mods. Anyway, as you are out there with your turbos and are calling daily asking questions, finding things out the hard way or are asking for technical support I am learning and want to share a few tips.
I talk with many customers about their rotarys. I can share my opinion on some things to be cautious about when having a turbo with an RX8.
Seems like a good idea to pass some of my edumacashon on. My tips are in no way Mazsport tips. They are lowely tips from an RX8 lover that wants all RX8s to be as healthy as possible. Some of this stuff seems pretty logical or basic. Ye of stellar turbo knowledge please be kind.
No. 1
It is always a good idea to read the forums or istallation instructions provided before you install anything. It will save you time and daylight.
No.2
When you go turbo, be prepared to change your stock coils and spark plugs more often than non turbo. If you dyno, these items can foul and it is always a good idea to keep spares.
No. 3
Upgrade your plug wires! Mazsport sells custom plug wires that I use on my NA and they are great not only for the obvious reasons, but because they clip on. Stock wires can disconnect if not installed properly. One less thing to worry about.
No. 4
When going turbo switch from leading and trailing plugs to all trailing plugs to prevent detonation. There is more info about this on our website. We sell at Mazsport.
No.5
Thicken the blood. Do not use synthetic IMO ever! Mazsport doesnt.
No. 6
If you have a turbo, please try to keep a 1/4 of a tank of gas always. Guys never know when they are going to haul *** and it is just one more thing to not worry about.
No.7
Always use premium gas. And please dont premix. If you premix, learn about the different options and be aware that premixing can clog your fuel filter which can give you bad results.
No. 8
Let your car warm up. You will flood your car otherwise. It is reality of having a ROTARY. More attention is required or maybe you can consider it more care. Do not stop starting your car until you hear the engine run.
No.9
My personal mantra Function before fashion.
No. 10
My car modding mantra:
Always keep these in order.....maintenance, performance, fashion.....
No. 11
If you cant keep your 8 clean, FI might not be for you.
No. 12
My motor mounts needed replacing at 20k on a non turbo car. Your motor mounts will go bad at some point. Do some research (mazsport motor mounts) and prepare for this upgrade.
No. 13
Never put time before attention to detail.
No. 14
Recognize that you dont have to be rogue. The Mazda community is quite unique in its enthusiasm. Learn from others mistakes.
No. 15
If you buy your first set of tools to install a turbo. You may not want to install your turbo alone.
No. 16
Nothing for any rotary is cheap. If you think you can install a safe turbo kit for $3k you will be sadly mistaken. Forced induction and fuel system upgrades go hand in hand. If you can't afford to upgrade the fuel system, dont upgrade the power.
No. 17
Really read the reviews on the Cooling Fan Control Kit Mazsport sells. It makes a gigantic difference. Keeping your rotary cool is key to its life. Consider cooling mods as investments in the non refundable investment called modding your car.
Ha ha, that is all for now. On to cup 3 of coffee.
Please feel free to add your experiences and tips. This is not to be a gigantic hate thread of arguments. Just a fun thread.
DONT CALL ME AT HOME AFTER HOURS FOR RX8 HELP OR AN UPDATE UNLESS YOU PLAN ON PAYING ME IN CHOCOLATE
and it is non turbo. It has a few mods. Anyway, as you are out there with your turbos and are calling daily asking questions, finding things out the hard way or are asking for technical support I am learning and want to share a few tips.I talk with many customers about their rotarys. I can share my opinion on some things to be cautious about when having a turbo with an RX8.
Seems like a good idea to pass some of my edumacashon on. My tips are in no way Mazsport tips. They are lowely tips from an RX8 lover that wants all RX8s to be as healthy as possible. Some of this stuff seems pretty logical or basic. Ye of stellar turbo knowledge please be kind.
No. 1
It is always a good idea to read the forums or istallation instructions provided before you install anything. It will save you time and daylight.
No.2
When you go turbo, be prepared to change your stock coils and spark plugs more often than non turbo. If you dyno, these items can foul and it is always a good idea to keep spares.
No. 3
Upgrade your plug wires! Mazsport sells custom plug wires that I use on my NA and they are great not only for the obvious reasons, but because they clip on. Stock wires can disconnect if not installed properly. One less thing to worry about.
No. 4
When going turbo switch from leading and trailing plugs to all trailing plugs to prevent detonation. There is more info about this on our website. We sell at Mazsport.
No.5
Thicken the blood. Do not use synthetic IMO ever! Mazsport doesnt.
No. 6
If you have a turbo, please try to keep a 1/4 of a tank of gas always. Guys never know when they are going to haul *** and it is just one more thing to not worry about.
No.7
Always use premium gas. And please dont premix. If you premix, learn about the different options and be aware that premixing can clog your fuel filter which can give you bad results.
No. 8
Let your car warm up. You will flood your car otherwise. It is reality of having a ROTARY. More attention is required or maybe you can consider it more care. Do not stop starting your car until you hear the engine run.
No.9
My personal mantra Function before fashion.
No. 10
My car modding mantra:
Always keep these in order.....maintenance, performance, fashion.....
No. 11
If you cant keep your 8 clean, FI might not be for you.
No. 12
My motor mounts needed replacing at 20k on a non turbo car. Your motor mounts will go bad at some point. Do some research (mazsport motor mounts) and prepare for this upgrade.
No. 13
Never put time before attention to detail.
No. 14
Recognize that you dont have to be rogue. The Mazda community is quite unique in its enthusiasm. Learn from others mistakes.
No. 15
If you buy your first set of tools to install a turbo. You may not want to install your turbo alone.
No. 16
Nothing for any rotary is cheap. If you think you can install a safe turbo kit for $3k you will be sadly mistaken. Forced induction and fuel system upgrades go hand in hand. If you can't afford to upgrade the fuel system, dont upgrade the power.
No. 17
Really read the reviews on the Cooling Fan Control Kit Mazsport sells. It makes a gigantic difference. Keeping your rotary cool is key to its life. Consider cooling mods as investments in the non refundable investment called modding your car.
Ha ha, that is all for now. On to cup 3 of coffee.
Please feel free to add your experiences and tips. This is not to be a gigantic hate thread of arguments. Just a fun thread.DONT CALL ME AT HOME AFTER HOURS FOR RX8 HELP OR AN UPDATE UNLESS YOU PLAN ON PAYING ME IN CHOCOLATE
Last edited by mazsportmantis; 11-09-2007 at 10:19 AM.
11-09-2007, 09:55 AM
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LOOOL...at no. 15...it wasn't my first set of tools....I just moved ;p
Something to add is.....listen to your car daily.
A new vibrartion or noise are early signs.......
I wouldn't call Betsey after hours either for RX8 tech support...rofl
Something to add is.....listen to your car daily.
A new vibrartion or noise are early signs.......
I wouldn't call Betsey after hours either for RX8 tech support...rofl
11-09-2007, 10:06 AM
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LOL, these are not geared towards any one person!
Everyone calls for status on the their cars and I enjoy updating them and talking about 8s. And, it is completely normal to be obsessive about a car. I get it, I am the dealer of crack called mods. Or am I a pusher? or a pimp. My job description here is so blurred at times. Scott calls me Elizabeth Pushington....?
Everyone calls for status on the their cars and I enjoy updating them and talking about 8s. And, it is completely normal to be obsessive about a car. I get it, I am the dealer of crack called mods. Or am I a pusher? or a pimp. My job description here is so blurred at times. Scott calls me Elizabeth Pushington....?
11-09-2007, 10:20 AM
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LOL, these are not geared towards any one person!
Everyone calls for status on the their cars and I enjoy updating them and talking about 8s. And, it is completely normal to be obsessive about a car. I get it, I am the dealer of crack called mods. Or am I a pusher? or a pimp. My job description here is so blurred at times. Scott calls me Elizabeth Pushington....?
Everyone calls for status on the their cars and I enjoy updating them and talking about 8s. And, it is completely normal to be obsessive about a car. I get it, I am the dealer of crack called mods. Or am I a pusher? or a pimp. My job description here is so blurred at times. Scott calls me Elizabeth Pushington....?
I just personally don't follow 5 or 7...different strokes.
11-09-2007, 12:55 PM
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Rumor has it they were created cause of your BEAST!!!
Yes I'm jealous I am feining for them.lololol
Can I at least get a pic.lololol
Psst mantis has them in her sig lololololol
Yes I'm jealous I am feining for them.lololol
Can I at least get a pic.lololol
Psst mantis has them in her sig lololololol
11-09-2007, 02:17 PM
#10
#4 needs a qualifier - You can use RX-7 trailing plugs in the leading plug position and RX-8 trailing plugs in the trailing position.
This is the ONLY combination that works.
DO NOT use RX-7 trailing plugs in the Renesis trailing position or RX-8 trailing plugs in the leading position.
#5 Is completely incorrect. It should read:
"Thicken the blood. Use synthetic Oil ONLY! Were not sure why Mazsport doesn't and every other rotary tuner does, including Mazdspeed, RB, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing."
#7 Is just plain uninformed. Always use pre-mix ESPECIALLY if you are turbo. New flash not withstanding, pre-mix can only help you and never hurt you. Stories of "gumming fuel filters" and "lowered octane" are misleading.
#8 Is not really relevant anymore - maybe the Int-X is different, but with any good EMS, you won't flood your motor - especially if you use one that utilizes the OE tuning with the newest flash. It is nearly impossible to flood the Renesis these days - and I've tried.
Still, warming up isn't a bad idea in theory.
This is the ONLY combination that works.
DO NOT use RX-7 trailing plugs in the Renesis trailing position or RX-8 trailing plugs in the leading position.
#5 Is completely incorrect. It should read:
"Thicken the blood. Use synthetic Oil ONLY! Were not sure why Mazsport doesn't and every other rotary tuner does, including Mazdspeed, RB, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing."
#7 Is just plain uninformed. Always use pre-mix ESPECIALLY if you are turbo. New flash not withstanding, pre-mix can only help you and never hurt you. Stories of "gumming fuel filters" and "lowered octane" are misleading.
#8 Is not really relevant anymore - maybe the Int-X is different, but with any good EMS, you won't flood your motor - especially if you use one that utilizes the OE tuning with the newest flash. It is nearly impossible to flood the Renesis these days - and I've tried.
Still, warming up isn't a bad idea in theory.
11-09-2007, 11:05 PM
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I have seen first hand that it does.....
11-09-2007, 11:08 PM
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11-09-2007, 11:10 PM
#13
LOL, these are not geared towards any one person!
Everyone calls for status on the their cars and I enjoy updating them and talking about 8s. And, it is completely normal to be obsessive about a car. I get it, I am the dealer of crack called mods. Or am I a pusher? or a pimp. My job description here is so blurred at times. Scott calls me Elizabeth Pushington....?
Everyone calls for status on the their cars and I enjoy updating them and talking about 8s. And, it is completely normal to be obsessive about a car. I get it, I am the dealer of crack called mods. Or am I a pusher? or a pimp. My job description here is so blurred at times. Scott calls me Elizabeth Pushington....?
beers
11-09-2007, 11:10 PM
#14
Several people have "seen it first hand" and it is a conclusion that does not follow the premise.
Pre-mix will not clog your fuel filter.
Other junk might and pre-mix may exacerbate the issue, but pre-mix on its own is not capable of doing that.
If you dump a handful of talc in the tank, there is a chance that the pre-mix may bind it to the filter.
So, what is the proper conclusion from that situation?
Like most things rotary, there is a ton of bad info being thrown around and, for the most part, voodoo and superstition are the main supporting arguments.
Pre-mix will not clog your fuel filter.
Other junk might and pre-mix may exacerbate the issue, but pre-mix on its own is not capable of doing that.
If you dump a handful of talc in the tank, there is a chance that the pre-mix may bind it to the filter.
So, what is the proper conclusion from that situation?
Like most things rotary, there is a ton of bad info being thrown around and, for the most part, voodoo and superstition are the main supporting arguments.
11-10-2007, 03:42 AM
#16
#5 Is completely incorrect. It should read:
"Thicken the blood. Use synthetic Oil ONLY! Were not sure why Mazsport doesn't and every other rotary tuner does, including Mazdspeed, RB, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing."
#7 Is just plain uninformed. Always use pre-mix ESPECIALLY if you are turbo. New flash not withstanding, pre-mix can only help you and never hurt you. Stories of "gumming fuel filters" and "lowered octane" are misleading.
#8 Is not really relevant anymore - maybe the Int-X is different, but with any good EMS, you won't flood your motor - especially if you use one that utilizes the OE tuning with the newest flash. It is nearly impossible to flood the Renesis these days - and I've tried.
Still, warming up isn't a bad idea in theory.
"Thicken the blood. Use synthetic Oil ONLY! Were not sure why Mazsport doesn't and every other rotary tuner does, including Mazdspeed, RB, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing."
#7 Is just plain uninformed. Always use pre-mix ESPECIALLY if you are turbo. New flash not withstanding, pre-mix can only help you and never hurt you. Stories of "gumming fuel filters" and "lowered octane" are misleading.
#8 Is not really relevant anymore - maybe the Int-X is different, but with any good EMS, you won't flood your motor - especially if you use one that utilizes the OE tuning with the newest flash. It is nearly impossible to flood the Renesis these days - and I've tried.
Still, warming up isn't a bad idea in theory.
11-12-2007, 10:48 AM
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#5 Is completely incorrect. It should read:
"Thicken the blood. Use synthetic Oil ONLY! Were not sure why Mazsport doesn't and every other rotary tuner does, including Mazdspeed, RB, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing."
Simple really, I have to recommend what I know works. I have built over 300 engines in my career and have NEVER had an oil related failure using mineral oil in rotary engines. I have used it in everything from stock 12a's, singles turbo N20 drag race motors to 24 hour road race engines and a ton of street cars I have built and never any issues. Are there synthetic oils that have advantages over mineral oil? Without a doubt. I have used various brands in racing applications over the years with no negative results but that doesn't mean I can tell you what the engine internals will look like at 150,000 miles. Until I can do that, I have to recommend what I know works.
#7 Is just plain uninformed. Always use pre-mix ESPECIALLY if you are turbo. New flash not withstanding, pre-mix can only help you and never hurt you. Stories of "gumming fuel filters" and "lowered octane" are misleading.
Glad to hear you have not had any bad experiences with it Jeff, you must be using an oil that mixes very well with gasoline. The reality is alot of people are not, we have pulled out many pumps only to find a oily dark substance covering the sock and people having pressure/flow issues from it. The only constant I have found here is people that are premixing are the ones having the problem.
#8 Is not really relevant anymore - maybe the Int-X is different, but with any good EMS, you won't flood your motor - especially if you use one that utilizes the OE tuning with the newest flash. It is nearly impossible to flood the Renesis these days - and I've tried.
Still, warming up isn't a bad idea in theory.[/QUOTE]
The bad news is even though improvements have been made, we are still not out of the woods on this one. If you never want to have an issue, allowing a little time to get some heat in the engine is simple, good insurance. We do even now, still have stock cars towed in flooded. Usually from the same old start it, move it, shut it off. We have installed turbo timers in n/a cars over the years just to prevent this.
"Thicken the blood. Use synthetic Oil ONLY! Were not sure why Mazsport doesn't and every other rotary tuner does, including Mazdspeed, RB, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing."
Simple really, I have to recommend what I know works. I have built over 300 engines in my career and have NEVER had an oil related failure using mineral oil in rotary engines. I have used it in everything from stock 12a's, singles turbo N20 drag race motors to 24 hour road race engines and a ton of street cars I have built and never any issues. Are there synthetic oils that have advantages over mineral oil? Without a doubt. I have used various brands in racing applications over the years with no negative results but that doesn't mean I can tell you what the engine internals will look like at 150,000 miles. Until I can do that, I have to recommend what I know works.
#7 Is just plain uninformed. Always use pre-mix ESPECIALLY if you are turbo. New flash not withstanding, pre-mix can only help you and never hurt you. Stories of "gumming fuel filters" and "lowered octane" are misleading.
Glad to hear you have not had any bad experiences with it Jeff, you must be using an oil that mixes very well with gasoline. The reality is alot of people are not, we have pulled out many pumps only to find a oily dark substance covering the sock and people having pressure/flow issues from it. The only constant I have found here is people that are premixing are the ones having the problem.
#8 Is not really relevant anymore - maybe the Int-X is different, but with any good EMS, you won't flood your motor - especially if you use one that utilizes the OE tuning with the newest flash. It is nearly impossible to flood the Renesis these days - and I've tried.
Still, warming up isn't a bad idea in theory.[/QUOTE]
The bad news is even though improvements have been made, we are still not out of the woods on this one. If you never want to have an issue, allowing a little time to get some heat in the engine is simple, good insurance. We do even now, still have stock cars towed in flooded. Usually from the same old start it, move it, shut it off. We have installed turbo timers in n/a cars over the years just to prevent this.
Last edited by MazsportScott; 11-12-2007 at 10:53 AM.
11-12-2007, 12:20 PM
#19
11-12-2007, 01:14 PM
#20
No doubt that is a proper recommendation - one made from experience (even though saying you are for natural oil is not the same thing as saying you are against synthetic, which is what was originally stated). However, Betsy 1) is not you and 2) added the "IMO" after the fact, so it might have looked like an absolute anti-endorsement of synthetic. I understand where you are coming from, but that is completely contrary to many of your great brethren like Mazdspeed, Racing Beat, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing. Personally, if Mederer and Downing say its OK, I'm gonna go with that.
Pro mineral <> Anti Synthetic
I use the Idemitsu, which is what Mazdaspeed uses. I've had my pump out twice now, and pulling the casing apart reveals no gunk. That said, I am going to a return system soon so I can balance injection pressure against boost, so I'll have the pump out yet again.
Its not the oil that makes the gum, it the reaction of junk in the tank to the solvents in the oil and gasoline.
Well, the proper "insurance" against this is to simply rev it and then pull the key. Simply stabbing the pedal to get the revs up to 5k or so and just letting go is more than enough to fix the issue, without exposing the motor to an incomplete heat cycle and wasting gas.
Pro mineral <> Anti Synthetic
Glad to hear you have not had any bad experiences with it Jeff, you must be using an oil that mixes very well with gasoline. The reality is alot of people are not, we have pulled out many pumps only to find a oily dark substance covering the sock and people having pressure/flow issues from it. The only constant I have found here is people that are premixing are the ones having the problem.
Its not the oil that makes the gum, it the reaction of junk in the tank to the solvents in the oil and gasoline.
The bad news is even though improvements have been made, we are still not out of the woods on this one. If you never want to have an issue, allowing a little time to get some heat in the engine is simple, good insurance. We do even now, still have stock cars towed in flooded.
11-13-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazsportScott
Simple really, I have to recommend what I know works.
No doubt that is a proper recommendation - one made from experience (even though saying you are for natural oil is not the same thing as saying you are against synthetic, which is what was originally stated). However, Betsy 1) is not you and 2) added the "IMO" after the fact, so it might have looked like an absolute anti-endorsement of synthetic. I understand where you are coming from, but that is completely contrary to many of your great brethren like Mazdspeed, Racing Beat, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing. Personally, if Mederer and Downing say its OK, I'm gonna go with that.
Pro mineral <> Anti Synthetic
Originally Posted by MazsportScott
Simple really, I have to recommend what I know works.
No doubt that is a proper recommendation - one made from experience (even though saying you are for natural oil is not the same thing as saying you are against synthetic, which is what was originally stated). However, Betsy 1) is not you and 2) added the "IMO" after the fact, so it might have looked like an absolute anti-endorsement of synthetic. I understand where you are coming from, but that is completely contrary to many of your great brethren like Mazdspeed, Racing Beat, Atkins, Pineapple, Pettit and Downing. Personally, if Mederer and Downing say its OK, I'm gonna go with that.
Pro mineral <> Anti Synthetic
Most people dont take a part their engines, fuel pumps, blow their engines or buy engine management systems out there to compare. You know you are unique and it would be unfair to assume everyone out there that owns a rotary would be at your level of rotary understanding.
These are great tips for RX8 owners that don't live on the boards to discuss every detail. I have found in my own experiences that if you follow the basic tips you will avoid certain pitfalls that could easily be avoided. I thought there was a disclaimer at the top of my tips smarty pants.
Sometimes, too much information is too much information.....
Tip
No. 18
Rotary vehicles are like women. If you can't handle a relationship with a female, you may not want to give her more power.
Last edited by mazsportmantis; 11-13-2007 at 09:33 AM.
11-13-2007, 09:18 AM
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Educate yourself before considering adding anything to your fuel.
Do not do it if you arent going to take the time to learn about why premix or octane boosters are used and what applications are recommended.
Do not do it if you arent going to take the time to learn about why premix or octane boosters are used and what applications are recommended.
Last edited by mazsportmantis; 11-13-2007 at 09:34 AM.
11-13-2007, 09:59 AM
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