Esmeril Racing Apex Seals on an FI'd renesis - post your experience good or bad
04-19-2010, 06:17 PM
#1
Esmeril Racing Apex Seals on an FI'd renesis - post your experience good or bad
There are a few of us now that have fitted these seals , but there is some doubt as to whether they are worthwhile or not . The Esmeril website states that these seals tend to "bend rather than break" - under severe conditions (EG detonation).
Please post your experiences good or bad with these so we can over time see if they are a worth fitting for FI use .
Please fill in the following :
Number of miles travelled : 6500 miles
Maximum daily boost : 11psi
Ever detonated ? : yes minor detonation x 2 times
Any other abuse ? : no
Seals still ok - yes or no ? : yes
Any other factors that may influence seal life ? : premix at 200:1
Esmeril Blurb on the seals :
At Last! After extensive testing and re-testing over a period of almost 2 years and with countless miles, Esmeril Racing is proud to release their Apex Seals to the public market.
A first in the aftermarket industry for the Renesis engine, our seals are designed to handle the high stress operation normally associated with high boost applications in rotary engines. They are made from a proprietary material that allows them to handle a certain degree of detonation without suffering from brittleness which in OEM apex seals cause cracks to develop and propagate. At the same time they surpass the strength of the OEM apex seals and withstand elevated boost levels without issues.
Our Apex Seals were designed to not cause premature rotor housing wear; the OEM ones will actually wear out the housings faster than these. In the event that the engine is operated at elevated temps, for instance when running very “lean” conditions such as extreme pre-ignition/detonation due to over advancing ignition timing: they will deform before they break. This deformation serves as a warning instead of instantly encountering a severly broken engine which occurs with OEM seals. This deformation will cause a loss in compression associated with loss of optimal seating against the internal surfaces of the engine but it will be as simple as replacing the seals themselves instead of the rotor, housing, etc. as is normally the case with the OEM seals when breakage occurs.
These seals have been proven to withstand boost pressure levels of more than 30psi with proper fueling and tuning. They have seen WHP levels well above 500whp while being safe for engine internals.
This is the ultimate internal upgrade for the Mazda Renesis engine
Please post your experiences good or bad with these so we can over time see if they are a worth fitting for FI use .
Please fill in the following :
Number of miles travelled : 6500 miles
Maximum daily boost : 11psi
Ever detonated ? : yes minor detonation x 2 times
Any other abuse ? : no
Seals still ok - yes or no ? : yes
Any other factors that may influence seal life ? : premix at 200:1
Esmeril Blurb on the seals :
At Last! After extensive testing and re-testing over a period of almost 2 years and with countless miles, Esmeril Racing is proud to release their Apex Seals to the public market.
A first in the aftermarket industry for the Renesis engine, our seals are designed to handle the high stress operation normally associated with high boost applications in rotary engines. They are made from a proprietary material that allows them to handle a certain degree of detonation without suffering from brittleness which in OEM apex seals cause cracks to develop and propagate. At the same time they surpass the strength of the OEM apex seals and withstand elevated boost levels without issues.
Our Apex Seals were designed to not cause premature rotor housing wear; the OEM ones will actually wear out the housings faster than these. In the event that the engine is operated at elevated temps, for instance when running very “lean” conditions such as extreme pre-ignition/detonation due to over advancing ignition timing: they will deform before they break. This deformation serves as a warning instead of instantly encountering a severly broken engine which occurs with OEM seals. This deformation will cause a loss in compression associated with loss of optimal seating against the internal surfaces of the engine but it will be as simple as replacing the seals themselves instead of the rotor, housing, etc. as is normally the case with the OEM seals when breakage occurs.
These seals have been proven to withstand boost pressure levels of more than 30psi with proper fueling and tuning. They have seen WHP levels well above 500whp while being safe for engine internals.
This is the ultimate internal upgrade for the Mazda Renesis engine
Last edited by Brettus; 04-22-2010 at 04:53 PM.
04-19-2010, 08:13 PM
#5
OK - kinda knew you would say that .
Then again -these particular seals are supposed to bend rather than break so if they had bent there would be a drop in compression/vacuum .
BTW : the detonation event was mild and it happened 5000 miles ago ....
Then again -these particular seals are supposed to bend rather than break so if they had bent there would be a drop in compression/vacuum .
BTW : the detonation event was mild and it happened 5000 miles ago ....
Last edited by Brettus; 04-19-2010 at 08:20 PM.
04-20-2010, 01:15 AM
#8
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04-21-2010, 08:31 AM
#9
There are a few of us now that have fitted these seals , but there is some doubt as to whether they are worthwhile or not . The Esmeril website states that these seals tend to "bend rather than break" - under severe conditions (EG detonation).
Please post your experiences good or bad with these so we can over time see if they are a worth fitting for FI use .
Please fill in the following :
Number of miles travelled : 6500 miles
Maximum daily boost : 11psi
Ever detonated ? : yes minor detonation x 2 times
Any other abuse ? : no
Seals still ok - yes or no ? : yes
Any other factors that may influence seal life ? : premix at 200:1
Please post your experiences good or bad with these so we can over time see if they are a worth fitting for FI use .
Please fill in the following :
Number of miles travelled : 6500 miles
Maximum daily boost : 11psi
Ever detonated ? : yes minor detonation x 2 times
Any other abuse ? : no
Seals still ok - yes or no ? : yes
Any other factors that may influence seal life ? : premix at 200:1
I got these seals in my engine. So far for incidents that would ruin the engine, during tuning we forgot to check where the rev limiter was set at (8500 rpm instead of at 9200) and we went pass 8500 rpm and heard 3 loud bang bang bang from the engine. We reset the rev limiter and the car drove fine. Note that I am running snowperformance methanal on my car. Car is tuned to around 10.5 AFR. However, I am running microtech on mine and car tends to flood easily. This has nothing to do with the seal. It is just the cranking map needs to be fine tuned. Car pulls good vacuum.
# of miles so far: ~ 7000 miles
Max daily boost: 10 psi.
Ever detonated?: Beside during what happen during tuning, no.
Any other abuse: No.
I premixed mine. 5 oz of premix per full tank.
04-22-2010, 11:18 AM
#15
I am wondering if by "bend", Chris from Esmeril actually means to say "flex"?
If someone is going to be machining apex seals they better have some damned good machines to do it; the seal-to-tip clearance is often less than .001". When I measured NRS's ceramic apex seals while doing Kane's build they were within .0001" of each other on all dimensions.
If someone is going to be machining apex seals they better have some damned good machines to do it; the seal-to-tip clearance is often less than .001". When I measured NRS's ceramic apex seals while doing Kane's build they were within .0001" of each other on all dimensions.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 04-22-2010 at 11:21 AM.
04-22-2010, 11:47 AM
#16
If someone is going to be machining apex seals they better have some damned good machines to do it; the seal-to-tip clearance is often less than .001". When I measured NRS's ceramic apex seals while doing Kane's build they were within .0001" of each other on all dimensions.
And it is nice!
Now that I have had the Ray treatment, I really wonder how many issues with stock motors (HP output, hot start etc) are seal clearance ones...
04-22-2010, 11:54 AM
#17
04-22-2010, 01:03 PM
#18
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At some point my engine will have to come out. I still cant decide whether to try to rebuild it myself(would love the experience), get Ray to build me one or just bite the bullet and do an LSx swap. hmmmmm
05-02-2010, 08:36 PM
#22
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no problems here. I have ran the car to its fullest and no problems! I can actually feel the car can handle more than of course the original seals. I have had them since they first came out and I have ran them about 5,000 miles, hard!!!!! No problems up to now.... Sorry I took so long to post and nice picks brettus, haha
05-19-2010, 11:58 AM
#24
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I am currently having these seals put in my motor. It was just completed yesterday and is still sitting at Steve Kan's shop in Texas. I wont get the motor back till memorial day weekend though. Hopefully things go well.
