Eradicator

My roommate just got back from cruising around this morning in his Miata and got pulled over at a _roadblock_ where several cops were pulling over lots of people for not having their front license plates mounted. I guess the cops have nothing better to do and figure blocking traffic on a major thoroughfair was a good way to pass a Saturday. I'm not sure how much the fine is for, but he got it on Clear Lake City Blvd. So keep an eye out.

DrKillJoY

HPD has recently been spotted doing this same thing on the Sam Houston Tollway on the West-side at the Tollway exit ramps.

MrWigggles

I guarantee that the increase scrutiny for front license plates is do to the city wanting to install traffic cameras.

No front plate should be a "tack-on" ticket for other crimes such as speeding etc.

Setting up roadblocks for something like that is just stupid.

Get a lawyer. Get a jury trial. Case dismissed.

-Mr. Wigggles

rotarygod

This are personal opinions and are no way indicative of the views expressed on the RX8forum and I apologize if this offends anyone but some cops just suck! I praise a couple later so don't think this is just a negative thing.

I witnessed a traffic accident on Bay Area Blvd about a mile from an HPD station. I got a good description of both cars, drivers, and their license plate numbers. The car at fault slowly drove off into an apartment parking lot. The other car sat there and then finally drove off since the car at fault left and he didn't see where it went to. I saw where both cars were parked and went down and told HPD. They basically said that since no one was left at the scene of the crime that they couldn't do anything about it. What kind of lazy bs is that?! If one person leaves they get mad so what gives? I even told them where the cars were but they still did nothing. It must have required effort.

On another occassion there was a woman driving terribly on I-45 going south near N. Shephard on the north side of town. She almost caused many wrecks. Me and another car turned on our hazard lights to warn other people. I called HPD and told them the license number of the vehicle and stayed with them on the phone and told them where we were. The line got disconnected 3 times. Each time I called back and no one knew of the previous dispatchers conversations with me. This went on for over a half an hour and over 30 miles!!! We passed 5 yes 5 cops while I was on the phone with them. One cop the lady almost hit. Still they do nothing. I kept following this person trying to get help. She was going to kill someone and I would feel bad if I saw that car on TV the next day. The chase, albeit a very slow and hazardous one, finally ended at Beltway 8 and Telephone road on the south side of town! The only reason that it ended here was because a cop drove past us in the same direction while this lady was swerving madly. This isn't what got his attention though. The beltway stoplight was red and I floored it to catch up with him. I got out of the car and knocked on his window. He looked a little agitated and I pointed out the woman's car. He finally caught her. Way to go HPD! (you f'in morons!). This was tragic. Aren't they supposed to "serve and protect"? We know they don't serve for crap and this definitely isn't protection. I'd feel safer using a condom with a lightbar attached to it. I will never go out of my way to stop a drunk driver again! It wasn't worth it. Sorry world you are on your own.

Now these 2 incidents have me pissed off at HPD and then what happens on I-45 south? TICKET!!! It was the very last day of August at about 11:00 pm. I was driving in the flow of traffic (no really!!!). I was just the car that he radared. I quizzed this idiot in a very nice and innocent way to see how knowledgeable he was about his radar gun. I curiously asked him what the deflection angle of the beam was. He didn't even know what that word was. Then I told him that every radar gun has a deflection angle to which he replied no it doesn't it's a lazer. Really? I built a lazer in 1988 when I was in 7th grade!!! Don't give me that crap! There were 3 other people pulled over right alone that same small stretch of road. Quota meeting I guess. It's amazing that when you tell them where the real problems are they do nothing but when you are doing 8 miles an hour over the speed limit or have no front license plate you get punished. HPD has never ever been nice and polite when I was pulled over by them. I least expect courtesy even if I'm getting ticketed. They have none. It is a fine example of how absolute power corrupts absolutely. HPD my hat's off to you. You have stooped to a new level of public service. Too bad it was in the wrong direction!

As a contrast to this I have nothing but respect for a couple of officers in Houston. Neither of them works for HPD and I can't help but think this is no coincidence. One very good cop is on the north side. He is a Sherrif named Willie Hodge. You are a good man Will! The other is 2nd in charge for the Constables in Precinct 4. Woody you rock! These are 2 fine cops and it is unfortunate that bad cops affect these mens reputations. These men have been extremely nice when they didn't have to (tickets or not). Woody went out of his way to help me once in a trivial little problem. He didn't have to do that but did anyways and I thank him. Willie is serious when he needs to be but is fun with a good sense of humor the rest of the time. I'm proud to call him a friend.

Remember that it only takes 1 or 2 worthless people in any job to make everyone else look bad. It's unfortunate that many cops would rather do as little as they can yet still retain their jobs while the rest of the people suffer. The news this week has had a couple of very bad cop related incidents. Unfortunate that we trust our lives to these people. Some are good some are bad. The standards should be much higher for them but who am I to judge. After all, according to HPD on August 31st at 11:00 PM, I'm jsut a criminal like everyone else.

Sorry to ramble and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

MrWigggles

Rotary,

I had a similar experience to yours in Houston.

I was rear-ended earlier this year by "slammed" riceboy Civic. It wasn't serious, but the damage was about $900 to my car (his damage was MUCH worse).

Anyway he took off going the wrong way on the street before I got his plate number. So I thought I was screwed.

Well, I was assessing the damage at the local gas station and two ladies in a Camry come up to me ask me if I was just hit. They ran after the guy and got his plate number. Sweet!!!

So, armed with all of this I went to the local policy station the next day. This is where my complaints start.

1. First, they didn't want to take my case because the accident was close to the 24 deadline (?) for filing a complaint. So I told the HPD "investigator" that they weren't open on Sunday and Monday morning was as soon as I could come in. (duh!) I also called 911 when the accident happened, but obviously that didn't initiate a case number or help me make their "deadline"

2. So I am there at the "Hit and Run" department at HPD downtown and the first thing they tell me is that they only have 30 investigators for Houston. So they might not be able to persue my case.

3. I then tell him that I have two eyewitnesses and the guy's plate number. So he says they will run the plate and send a letter to guy.

4. They send a letter to the guy and he never shows. That is basically all they did.

I have a lot of different problems here. Yes, big cities have more crimes but they also have more tax dollars to afford more cops and police those crimes. Property tax in Houston is plenty high so please employ some cops who want to get some results.

The other problem is that in Texas like many states there is dual jurisdiction. I really think HPD is as lazy as they can get away with. I probably would have had better results going through Harris County Police Department and that would have suited HPD just fine. It would have been one less case they would have to worry about.

So in Houston, crime does pay if you are smart and since my insurance picked-up the tab, that means essentially all of are a paying a little bit for this guy hitting me.

So bye-bye Mayor Brown and thank God for term limits. I hope the next mayor will clean up this town.

All I ask is that the streets are in good working order and that the streets are safe. Both of which have declined significantly over the last few years.

-Mr. Wigggles

IWANTMYRX8

Sorry, butg I've had enough cop-bashing in this forum...

No offense was taken. I appreciate the fact that everyone has their opinions, and ultimately, theses opinions are based on personal experience. I can respect that. What I do not respect is that this country praises our troops for risking their lives across the world, yet when it comes to our troops back home, it is constant bitching about how they do their job. These men and women risk their lives every day for 25-45k a year. They are under constant public scrutiny. They are always faced with danger. Thedon't know if the next traffic stop they do will get them killed. They don't know if the next domestic disturbance they respond to will get them j=killed. They don't know if the next time they respond to a burglar alarm if THEY themselves will have to take another human life. And what do they get out of this? It's obviously not the money. It's the fact that they want to SERVE and PROTECT the citizens and enforce the laws of their state, county, and city.
I will not even get into how underpaid/under-appreciated their dispatchers and 911 call takers are. That is another whole story.

Perhaps I am biased. Wonder why? Well, I am a dispatcher. I serve with thses men and women everyday. I see not only what the public goes through, but what my officers must go through. Maybe I'm biased because I've had people commit suicide while on 911 with them. Maybe I'm biased because I get to hear a husband beating his wife over the telephone after she drops the phone and all I hear is the 'thunk' of his boot slamming down onto her face. Maybe I'm biased because I've had my officers get into vehicle and foot pusuits to try and stop a suspect that took off running after assualting, or god forbid, killing, another person. Maybe I am biased because I've had an offer killed in the line of duty, while serving the public, and to have the public scrutinize how he handled the situation.

Take your pick on why I might have a problem with your comments. I agree that there are always bad apples. But don't ever, ever lump officers and deputies into one general catagory. I respect my fellow dispatchers and my officers. If you don't like it, et your associate in criminal justice, go through a 9 month training program, get your po, and join your local department. After your on the street for a few years, tell me if your attitude/opinions don't change.
God Bless

MrWigggles

IWANT,

You obviously did take offense and that is why you called it bashing.

Response times are up over the last few years and I am guessing that it is mainly a lack of manpower, but considering how much taxes we spend we should have enough officers to protect and serve us. That includes everything from murder to property damage. If you steal $900 dollars from someone, that is grand theft and a fellony correct? I see no difference between that and someone hitting someone speeding away.

Are you joking? The same thing happened to me. I got hit and was unable to pursue the guy so yes, I "Left The Scene". In my case, I sure as hell wanted to make a complaint. If someone gets hit, and the guy runs away, they aren't going to park their car in the middle of the street if the car is drivable. Rotorarygod brought up a completely legitimate example of a hit and run (Faliure to Stop and Give Information, correct?). Call it an LTS if you want, but that sure sounds like the easy way out.

And if you want to take the "we're to busy stopping real crimes" approach, then why is HPD setting up roadblocks for no front license plates?

-Mr. Wigggles

DrKillJoY

note: also maybe the police department in the Austin area has different priorities.

Come down here and take a look at our nightly news. In the last few weeks alone, the police department has come under heavy abuse because of several "emergency" calls where response time was in the hours. NOT mins, but yes hours.

this problem has plagued Houston for years.. see exhibits A, B, and C. In fact Houston Emergency Services cannot even take care of their own as they have shown several times.

A - Many Houstonians may remeber fine officer Troy Blando (R.I.P.) here is a exceprt from the office Mayoral investigation --

http://www.ci.houston.tx.us/citygovt...ess/060399.pdf


The findings released today by Mayor Brown began by tracing the significant events of Wednesday, May 19, the day Officer Blando was killed. The investigation confirmed that the overall response time, combining police and fire responses, amounted to 18 minutes and 23 seconds. This time period begins when Officer Blando notified HPD and ends when HFD ladder truck 51 arrives at 6800 Southwest Freeway to administer first aid to Officer Blando. The investigation determined that the unnecessary delay was caused by two different Fire Department dispatchers who failed to follow HFD dispatching procedures. There was a similar situation, although not as well publicized of a motorcycle cop, who was involved in a hit and run. that officer lost the use of one of his legs for purposes other than display. The response time for that call was also well over twenty mins.

Note, when an officer is down, should that not come as a priority call?

B. A recent open letter from the HPOU, poor guys... maybe its not all their fault, but they sure do take their frustrations out on the public...

http://www.hpou.org/news.cfm?newsID=25

. It is important to note that department staffing, especially patrol staffing in southwest and west Houston, is marginal, at best, and it is not unusual for large numbers of emergency calls to be holding due to the understaffing. Unfortunately, the tax roll-back consequences will only make that situation worse and exacerbate the problem of having patrol officers meet existing service demands emanating from the various neighborhoods throughout the city.

Please be advised if the city's current revenue deficit continues, further budget cuts and service reductions will likely occur beyond those prompted by the possible tax rollback scenario...

Hmm.. so maybe thats why the officers can roll 3-4 cars deep under neatht he freeway overpasses and do nothing but write tickets for seatbelts and other non-moving violations. Could it be that that might be the best possible way to aleivate the deficet they are incurring?

C. Houston cops are so notorious for their deeds that a website has sprung up to monitor them visit - http://www.houstoncopwatch.org for more details on the hijinks that are the Houston Police Department.


DISCLAIMER - As rotarygod mentioned not ALL police are bad... but not everyone reads I guess. We are just talking about the worst of the worst, and the fact that the local government allows these problems to fester and continue.

DrKillJoY

When you start dispatching Houston Cops maybe you can do some talking.. until then be happy with the perfect Austin system.... or wait.. maybe its not so perfect after all???

Seems like offical documents show that APD response times are down nearly 3 mins in the last 6 months... any comment sir?

Sounds like a fun conversation to get started in... so lets go!

IWANTMYRX8

1) Just because property taxes are up doesn't mean you get more police on the street. Take a look at where the money goes, and how much the pd 'actually' got for their budget. Just because we pay 2, 4, 5, 10%, etc, more each year doesn't mean they are getting it. The local commisioners court decides where the money goes. Not the police department. The pd is luckly if they see any of that money. Granted, there is a problem with that. But you need to take that up w/the commisioners court that decides what agencies in the city and county get how much money. (example : Travis County txes have increased dramatically this year, as well as being one of the highest population growth in the US. Guess how much was allotted to the sheriff's office in this particular county? Give up? 135k. Lets see, if you pay one deputy approximately 35k/year, plus a car for him w/equip and mobile puter (35k), plus his uniforms, supplies, health insurance, etc, (roughly 10-15k a/year)your almost there. If your lucky, you might have the money to TRAIN this deouty, but that would just be sqeaking buy within the 135k. So, for all of the money residents are paying that live withing the county limits, they get 1, that's right, ONE, new deputy. Doesn't seem right at all, does it? WEell, that's the way it works. Like I said, get with your local commisioners court/budget planning office. THEY deicide what happens with all that money.

2) Roadblocks are commonly used to crack down on ongoing dwi, pi, etc. Now then, you can have an officer on the street patrolling for dwi drivers, where he might catch 1 drunk person. After he arrests them, he will be back out on the street in about 3-4 hours. Why 3-4 hours, you ask? Because that is how much paperwork is involved in a DWI case. That is the paperwork that he is required to fill out to prosecute the person. This is all assuming he actually witnessed the person driving all over the roadway, or had some other probable cause to stop the vehicle.
Now then, your other option is to set up a roadblock. By doing this, you can see if the have no front plate, a light out, talk to the driver (and maybe smell alchohol in the car, gee wiz). This is a primary reason for roadblocks. It gives them the pc to stop a vehicle, and maybe get more, (like a drunk driver off the street). The plate check, etc, is tjsut the excuse to get the the pc to be allowed to stop the vehicle. Could there be another reason? Yes. Once again, the commisioners court. When citizens make complaints about people driving reckless in the area, drunks, drag racing, whatever, then sometimes they go to their local commisioner. What does the commisioner do? They direct to police to crack down on THAT PARTICULAR AREA. Why would the pd listen to the commisioners and not the public? Because the commioners give them the money to be out there in the first place. If they ignore them, they will be lucky to have a budget at all next year. So, once again, go to your local commisioner/budgeting auditor.

3) Response times are longer. Why? Several reasons. First off, Houston recently went to a new Computer Aided Dispatching system. Unfurtonately, this system is a piece of cr*p. Why did they buy it you ask? That's all the money the were allotted to spend on a new cad system. Tey system improperly coded the calls, so the dispatcher never even sees the calls until a preset amount of time went by. Screwed up, huh? But, not the dspatchers fault, nor the officers. Second, (and I'm using an example from here), lets say you have 1 officer on a disturbance, you have another on a dwi case, another enroute to back up the officer on the dsturbance, and 1 additional officer on a traffic stop where the driver has warrants. Now then, you get a priority call. Who do you send? All of your units are busy. You can't release the guy with the warrant, it's already been confirmed on and he's detained. The officer with the dwi is downtown writing a repoert, if you send him it will be at least a 35-45 minute response. (but wait, you can't send him...the judge says he has to stay there until he finishes his affidavit and pc paperwork as required by law). the officer at the disturbance can't leave, obviously. So, you can either send the officer that was on the way to assist the officer on the disturbance, or do nothing at all. Well, until the officer on the disturbance is cosde-4, that other officer is still on the way. Guess what? There's now a call holding. Now then, multiply that example times 2, 4, 5, 10, etc (depending on many units are workingeach area). Hmmm..no officers available. What can you do? You hold the call until someone becomes available. Can you pull a unit from a different area to respond? Not unless they want the commissioner in that area to complain and threathen to take away money from the department yet again.

4) I won't even comment on that copwatch bullsh*t. Funny how it's not approved/endorsed by the city or the county. And yes, Austin pd has it's civilian watch group too. However, it is a paid city posistion, which is held by a person who holds a bachelor degree in human behavior as well as criminal law, so that she can look at both sides of an incident. Alos electged by the voters of the city, not just a group of people who decide to follow around police officers.

5) Your right, I don't work for Houston. And yes, Austin has it's problems as well. Same one's as houston. I've descdribed them. I have also EXPLANINED WHY thesesw things happen. I've shown that just becuse a cop does something you don't understand, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. Hmmm, do I want to go to work in Houston? No thanks. I don't care for the coast much. But, maybe YOU should try working for them. Or try working in Austin. Or work for ANY agency, anywhere in the country. I try not to judge others in what they do. What about YOU? Why don't you go risk your lives everyday (I mentioned before...funny nobody wanted to take me up on this). Mind if I ask what YOU do for a living? I bet YOU have never rushed into a burning building to save a life. Or maybe taken a gunshot to defend someone's property, even though no one was even home. Let alone doing this every single day of your life. Like I said, people need to praise the police and the duputies for their work, not group all of them into a pile of sh*t. And yes, a acknowledged that their are a few bad apples out there. That doesn't give ANYONE a right to verbally **** on an entire agency.)


--Oh, afterthought...stealing 900 bucks is not grand theft. Too much tv Wig. Its still a misdemeanor. Class A, but still just a misdemeanor.

And I am not trying to offend anyone. I agree, this is a good debate. I do get heated about the topic though. As I said, I am biased, for obvious reasons.

MrWigggles

You are correct it is $1500 on up is a felony. I guess I was way off. But there easilly could have been that amount of damage to my car; that guy didn't know.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...ml#pe002.31.02

I don't spend too much time watching TV. If I want to read sappy cop stories, I just read your posts.

BTW, I design data acquisition systems for NASA. No, I don't jump through fires or take bullets on a daily basis. I try to prevent the them in the first place. My current project is designing return-to-flight impact detection systems for the upcoming shuttle flights.

People depend on me as I am sure they depend on you.

-Mr. Wigggles

rotarygod

I can't blaim 911 for the slow response time and lack of info when I called them over and over again over a half an hour. First of all it was 2 months before the lousy new system even went into service. It was only after the new system that we have had really bad times lately. Second, I called HPD DIRECTLY! Like I said I passed 5 cops. NONE of them was on a call. They were just sitting there waiting for tickets. They could have gotten one. I hope some rape victim isn't relying on that guy because he is far too busy waiting on someone who is going 5 over the speed limit or watching for the dangerous people who don't have a front license plate. Thank god I don't live in the city limits. I don't want my tax dollars going there. Like I said above, I know some very nice cops. They aren't HPD. Coincidence? I think not. It is true that it only takes a couple to make everyone else look bad. Unfortunately these are the only HPD cops I have ever seen. I know some very nice Humble PD, Sheriffs, and Constables. They actually seem to care. I really can't stand living in Houston for a number of reasons and I'll leave one day instead of complain about it forever. I don't like the enormous size of the city, I hate the traffic, but most importantly I don't trust HPD. I drive through this city and constantly have to wory about getting pulled over for a number of bs reasons. What is more dangerous, to go 10 mph over the speed limit when everyone else is so you are in the line of traffic, or to go the speed limit or under and be the car that everyone has to dodge and maneuver around? Its the slow people that are the biggest hazard. I may go a few over the speed limit but I always get passed at a high rate of speed on the freeway. Sometimes it is by cops who do it just because they can. Cops are supposed to set an example yet many don't, especially HPD. I won't bash all cops since I do know nice ones but I will bash HPD. If you take offense to this maybe you should show this thread to every cop in the office. They can know that if they are truly good legitimae cops, they won't take offense to this. They should be mad at their fellow cops who give them this stereotype. At the same time hopefully they will be made aware of their actions next time they are out and about just so they can be sure they are setting the example for everyone. I applaud the good cops. We need good cops. I would rather have no law enforcement than bad law enforcement though. A corrupt cop is just a criminal with more power. As you said, it takes many many months of training to get their jobs. Maybe ethics should be added to the cirriculum. some need it others don't. You make it sound like I hate all cops. I don't and neither does anyone else here. We hate the bad ones. The standards should be much higher due to their power and we should never have this problem.

IWANTMYRX8

Wiggy---Congrats on the job. Anyone who works to prevent disasters like we've had recently needs to be applauded.


Now then, back to the convo....Lets go for this. I propose we agree to disagree. As I've said, our views are all based on personal expierence and observations. We will never change each others minds, and I really don't think we should. After all, diversity is what makes us, well, us. So, Let's just nod our heads and respect each others views, and then forget about it. I don't want to get into a major debate that will end up with any of us despising the other. Not worth it. (plus, I don't wanna end up like Ike on here....lol j/k)
So, to each their own.

--Oh, and rotary...Can't stand the traffic down there either. I sympathize. Just be happy ur not having to drive on the 2nd deadlist stretch of hwy in the us everyday (I35 buda to georgetown)...yuck.

rotarygod

Yep it sucks here. If you are a dispatcher for a good group of people then be proud. I'd be pissed if someone said something bad about my job but it happens. I'm a real estate agent. Everyone has a horror story in real estate! I hope Austin is a place that HPD should look at for inspiration. They need it from somewhere.