Thanks guys! :bigok:

Chad it was my pleasure taking the time out of my day to answer your questions.

Brice, I can't thank you enough. You really made my day. Thanks again and can't wait till my bumper gets here!! Keeping my fingers crossed on the date it will arrive though, lol.

Ordered my authentic front bumper, rear under spoiler and rear spoiler from Brice. Communication was fantastic. Brice replied to PMs and was not dodgy and was straight to the point. This is one of my first and only purchase online and Brice did not disappoint. Everything arrived as is and I could not be happier.

The parts did take a little longer to arrive but Brice kept me in the loop 100% of the time. Answered all my questions and concerns promptly. I could not ask for more.

Overall I had a positive experience and would definitely shop with you again.

Thank you again Brice.

Ordered front and rear Racing Brake ET500 brake pads for a great price shipped. This was my first purchase from Race Roots. Communication with Brice was very positive and same goes with his service.

The package arrived quick and safe. The brake pads were packed with care in a tidy Fedex box which included tracking.

I wouldn't hesitate about doing business with Brice/Race Roots again.

Made another order (clear corners and brake pads) with Race Roots last week and got my package on Tuesday.
Great price, great service, prompt shipping, can't complain about anything!
Looking forward to the next order of stuff I don't really need but buy anyways... lol

Glad everything arrived in a timely manner and ok!

:)

Issue with purchase
 

Ok, so here is my issue with Race Roots/Brice -

I had ordered an Authentic Mazda speed Front bumper from him on 8/11/09. When I ordered he sent me an email saying Google Checkout didn't calculate shipping correctly and he charged me an additional $250 buck to ship. Okay, I can understand it’s a big heavy box and it was going to cost to ship that. Fine. When I received the bumper on 8/29/09 I noticed that it was not packaged to protect the bumper at all and he just shoved boxes in there to support the bumper. No peanuts, just a little wrapping around the ends and the bottom. Opened up the packaging and noticed that the bumper was broken in 3 different places. It was ripped at the bottom by the flairs (from the back to the front). When I emailed him about it his first suggestion was to file a claim with FedEx, after the run-around, he finally got back to me on 9/21 (almost a month later) and told me FedEx only covered $200 bucks because he did not put insurance on the bumper. He options after that was

A. Get a price reduction for the credit and keep the bumper you have
B. Order a new bumper and apply the $216 towards that purchase or I can assist and sell the MS Bumper on the forums hopefully someone local will want it to cover the remaining cost in getting you a new one.

NOT acceptable - I told him this and he asked if I would be willing to ship it back to him and he would take it to his personal painter to have it repaired. Brice told me his personal painter was quick and his turn around time was 3 - 4 days. I said we could try that but if after it was repaired and it did not look new then I would not take it. He told me that he would send pictures and video after the repair to see if it was OKAY and warranty it for one year. I agreed, had him send me a separate email with his word on a warranty for the bumper, and sent it back on 9/29.

On 10/7 Brice emailed me that he just dropped it off at the painter and that his painter would finish repairing it this week and would paint it the following week. This is not 3 - 4 days, but I was not worried, I just want it done right.

On 11/5, again, a month later Brice emailed me telling me that the bumper was finish and he was not going to ship it until Monday or Tuesday. Brice sent over pictures which looked okay to me, showing that it was reinforced with glass on the backside, painted and assuring me that I should not have a problem with it. On 11/14 i emailed him asking for a tracking number but he said that he hasn't shipped it because he wanted to crate it because the box was thrashed. Finally it was sent out on 11/25 along with a tracking number.

I received the bumper on 12/1 and again it was broken. The crate he was talking about was the same box he sent it to me in but with a wood frame up two sides of it. The middle of the box was totally compromised and my guess was that FedEx set something heavy on it and that’s how the top part of the bumper was broken.

I emailed Brice to find out what we should do, I was not OKAY with accepting this bumper broken again, and I was not going to ship it back out to him and have to wait two months to get it back.

We agreed to send it to a shop in my local town to fix the issue. I talked to the shop here and they agreed to help me out. We had two options

1. Just fix the spot with fiberglass and not paint it because it was not a visible piece
2. Fix it and paint it.

Brice told me that Fixing and painting was too expensive and that since it wasn't visible it would be okay just to fix it. I agreed because I just wanted to get this put on. I am not, and never have wanted to screw over Brice. Brice paid for the part to get fixed and told me that he would still warranty what he promised but if this crack ever started to grow that it would be on this shop and not him. I understood and agreed.

Ok, so I put the bumper on right after it was fixed and everything seemed okay. A few months later I notice the paint starting to flake off. On May 25th (6 months after i finally put it on) I emailed Brice to tell him that the paint was flaking. He told me to take some pictures and send them to him - So I did. Brice told me he would go and talk to his painter about it and look over the pictures. He also told me to visit my local shop for a repair estimate.

I went to the shop to find out what is happening, I wanted to make sure that I was in the right for asking Brice to fix it. The shop looked at it and told me that the reason that the paint is flaking like that is because when they applied the paint over the existing paint they didn't sand it enough to make it hold very well. They told me the paint they used looked good, but it was pre-paint procedures that caused this to flake. They also gave me a quote to have it repainted.

On June 21st I get this response. -

"Michael

After talking to the painter about what could possibly be the issue or what may have happened this is what he has discussed with me.
After further reviewing the pics closer the paint is not peeling from where the crack is on the bumper as I see it peeling in random places and different amounts.
With closer inspection of the pictures it appears there are quite a few rock chips on the bumper from wear and tear of where you may drive.
Essentially what the painter has come to the conclusion that is from the rock chips the paint will get a slight nick and be exposed then moisture and water will get under the paint and it will begin to peel over time. With the rock chips all over it makes it hard to just out right warranty the paint work from normal wear and tear.
Thanks"

I gave Brice the phone number to the shop that looked at it and I'm getting two conflicting statements. Brice it telling me that the shop said it is because of rock chips and the shop says no, its pre-painting procedures, that all the rock chips (if there is any) brought light to the fact that it wasn't painted very well.
After that he sends me another email on 8/4 saying

"Michael

Yes I talked with Robby, I talked to him last week I wanted to put some thought into the situation and talk to a few different people about that matter.
From what Robby and myself had discussed that paint in its current state is not good and is peeling. I asked him his personal opinion on why this would be happening and he told me it could be any number of things. Anything from rock chips to bug chips. I questioned him on his thought if he thought it could be an error in the paint process, his response was it is possible but no way for sure to tell.

After talking to another group painter (not the company that painted yours) I asked them what they had thought about the situation. Given the exp. of the company and the person that painted this they doubted that it was an error of improper procedures. The debris from various road conditions could have caused a few slight nicks in the paint and once there is a break in the paint and it begins to chip and be exposed, moisture and water get in there and the paint finish just falls apart.

I then also reached out to a few of his customers and I have used him as well for my RX-8 paint job and there were no issues of this type arising. This where it becomes difficult for me to believe and logically say that it was the painters fault.
I talked with the painter about the situation and he feels bad as well as I do about it as this whole ordeal has been a bit much. He has offered to repaint it as he still has additional paint because he paints that paint code for Mazda regularly and will re do the work even though he knows it wasn't an at fault incident.

The biggest issue and hurdle currently is that you are in TX and he is in Orlando so shipping the bumper back and forth is not a very conceivable and cost effective solution.

From the price quote that your local painter quoted it would not be too much cheaper when having to factor in shipping costs.
So as it stands my current stance on the matter of paying the local in TX to repaint it is a no, due to it being wear and tear on the part and defect or painters error."

On 8/21 I emailed him
"Brice,

I went and talked to Robby after I received this email and what I understood him to say was that the bugs or rocks were the reason that the faulty paint job was discovered. There is no way (if painted correctly) that my bumper should just be flaking paint. Even in area's not usually susceptible to rock or bug damage it is flaking.

I have talked to 2 other shops in town, the local Mazda dealership, my friend who has an RX8 and has painted 2 of his own cars, and my father who has been a GM for a few car dealerships for the last 18 years and they all keep telling me that it sounds like a faulty paint job, not wear and tear and this should not be happening. Whether its the paint, pre-paint procedures or anything else, it should not be flaking at the rate it is.

I don't know if Robby ever sent you the pictures that he took when I took it to the shop, if not let me know. They are a lot better than the ones that I sent you and really show off the amount of paint that I am having a problem with. When I took my car into the shop he said that if he had painted this bumper, there is no way this would be happening with a paint job that is only 8 months old, and if it did he would fix it because that would be an error on his shop.

I know that if I was in Orlando that it would be cheaper for you to fix this, but when I agreed to take the damaged bumper it was with your guarantee of a 1 year warranty and when you offered this you knew I lived in Texas. I'm sorry if this is coming across angry but I did spend quite a bit of money and time working with you to get this bumper. I am not trying to get something for free, I'm just trying to get what I paid for. What can we do to get this taken care of?
Mike"

I have yet to hear a response. I feel like I paid $1600 bucks for a broken bumper with a crappy paint job. This is not what I had in mind when I purchased this. He kept promising me to hook me up because I am working with him. I understand that his company is a smaller company and I was just trying to help him out while getting what I paid for. I feel like this whole time I have been put on the back burner, he hasn't tried to make things right, I have had to bug him all the time to communicate with me. I don't know what to do.

Any ideas?

Basically......

Fedex's fault it came broken....Although sounds like it could have been packaged better

Should Have been insured.....Makes it Brices problem :(

If it was me he would have sent me another new one and that would have been that....

What to do now......Kinda difficult..cause you agreed to have it repaired.....shouldn't be flaking off...no way And if it is done properly...the rock chips will not cause it to do that....

Although you have a warranty from Brice..it's only as good as his word...so you need to work on him :)

Bannobre,

I completely understand what you are saying. I was trusting in him to do the right thing. I had read a bunch of positive reviews from him and was hoping to get the same experience. When it came the first time, Brice made no offer to get me a knew one. It really sounded like its either work with me or you're stuck with the broken one. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes it doesn't work out in my favor.


Here are some updated pic's of the bumper as of today.

Wow..that's definitely flaking off bad.....

Brice...step up man ..

Michael,
If you notice that these pics are a lot better than the previous ones you sent I find the below picture very interesting and here is why:

Attachment 253598


If you look at all the pics and compare the above one do you not find it weird that there is a prevalence of small damage in that area and not consistent through out the whole bumper?

You also noted damage right below the headlight which is a small section compared to that main part on the bottom of the bumper. Notice the differences?

Something has to cause this to happen. Paint just doesn't fall of the car. The simple fact of the matter is rock chips or road debris damaged this bumper then once it rains moisture gets under the paint and lifts it up and flakes off causing the small sections to get larger. Over time that is just going to get worse.

I have been silent because I sympathize for the situation but I have to draw the line on paying this out of pocket.

It's chipping between the layer of new paint..and the OEM finish..

I have a badly pitted OEM bumper from ton's of track days and lots of highway miles..and there is NO flaking of paint.....

Come on......

My drive to work is 6 miles each way. All highway miles. No road repairs have taken place, i never drive on back roads with rocks. I have driven to out of town maybe a handfull of times. 6 months and this bumper is all messed up?

When I lived in California I drove 300 miles a week to see my fiance plus my normal commute to work. Put almost 40K miles on my car in 1.5 miles - That bumper looked new compaired to this one.

That small damage is consistant through almost the whole bumper, small holes peeling from almost everywhere, it may not be to that extent as the lower and middle half of the bumper but it's happening every where.

Did you ever get the pictures from the shop? They took a lot of really good ones -

*1.5 years not miles

Negative those pics are better than what you sent to us before I sent them to the painter again and I am also asking a third party for their thoughts.

here we go again ... Race Roots sucks... i will never buy from him after he admitted working with the most wanted man in the rx8 club

Let me first state that I am NOT a professional painter, I am a public school teacher and auto enthusiast, however I have painted multiple cars, trucks, and motorcycles including several of my own. I've also painted on multiple mediums and in different non automotive projects, including recently having painted Texas's largest MMA cage.

I have seen and, more importantly, felt the areas on Mike's car that are peeling. The areas where the paint has peeled are completely smooth. Running your fingers over the areas where there is no paint it doesn't feel like primer or paint at all. It feels like glass. Looking at the areas and the flakes it appears as if there was absolutely no primer whatsoever and that a layer of single stage paint was sprayed directly on the fiberglass. There doesn't appear to be any attempt to etch the surface at all prior to painting.
Also it is readily evident when you are able to see the bumper in person that the paint is flaking off, not being chipped. In the course of inspecting the bumper I inadvertently knocked large pieces of paint off the bumper just by running my hands across it.
I am also going to question the explanation of rain causing the paint to flake. This explanation holds no water (pun intended). Paint does not simply rest on a surface. It adheres to it. Adhere as in adhesion as in glue-like. Anyone who has a cursory knowledge of paint can tell you that it gets sticky when it dries. This stickiness allows it to physically and chemically bond to the material underneath, therefore there should be no space for water to get between the paint and the surface material. If this is the case then the paint was never properly adhered to begin with. For example, I have a chip in the hood of my 1969 C/10. Its been there for nearly 6 years because I haven't had time or resources to repaint it. The paint around the chip has NOT begun flaking off. The area where there is exposed metal has begun to rust but the surrounding area is not affected. Will the paint eventually flake? Yes. The metal will continue to rust, destroying the adhesion between the paint and metal, pushing the paint up and away, however in 6 years this has not occurred. Therefore I question how, in six months, a bumper that is made of fiberglass which does not rust has begun to release the paint if it was painted properly to begin with.

My opinion is that it was obviously not painted correctly to begin with.

Please spare me your cracker jack thoughts...I am not going to argue this one.



Michael I have called in a Favor with a Dupont representative to inspect the car and review the damage. I want a third party review from a professional company who knows more than the local paint shops. I want to know if it is wear and tear, poor paint job, or if there was a defect in the original primer.

There are 2 locations to bring the car in to inspect the damage. Houston or Dallas.

Let me know which and I will arrange an appointment for you to go in at your convenience.

Houston or Dallas? I hope he is just from there and doesn't have to drive to Houston or Dallas from College Station.

Just stating my opinion. I'm not trying to argue with you or flame you (I don't even think I mentioned you), no need to get upset about it. I just want to see this made right for everyone.

Brice,

Well both are pretty far from where I live, but I want this finalized. I'm pretty apprehensive to go to a shop you have set up, feel better with a spot that is neutral, but I'll play ball. If they do say that it is a painting issue and not wear and tear what is our next step? I ask, because Houston is 2 hours from me and Dallas is 3. I don't want to drive to either spot and hear its a painting issue and then you still have to mull over what to do. Can I go to the local shop that I have gone to before? Or am I going to have to drop my car off in Houston? I don't want to be that far away- I hope you can understand. I have Tuesday and Thursday off of next week, but Tuesday would be the best.

I appreciate you opening up communications and helping me get to the bottom of this. I wish this could have happened via email but I never got a response, and yes I know you said my first pictures were not that great, but I'm not a painter and didn't know exactly what you would need to see. If you asked for more I would have gotten more, and I'm also sorry that the shop's email never got to you.

Not that I fully trust wiki posts but here is a post about Car Paint Peeling and in the only two scenarios it has it blames the paint -

http://www.autotropolis.com/wiki/ind..._Paint_Peeling

But, I'm sure there are other sites out there that say otherwise, i just want an open mind on the subject.

So what happened?

Well,

I have been offered to send it back to Brice so he can have it repainted by the guy who originally painted it. I'd have to pay for shipping to him, but they would pay for it to get sent back to me. Only problem is I have no other car and no other bumper to put on my car in the mean time.

I do appreciate the offer, and if I can wrangle up a friends car for a month I might do that, but I don't know.

There was a guy selling am oem front bumper in TX in the FS section maybe a fellow member can let you borrow one for a bit.