hemanrulez

I was of course talking about the 05's being in showrooms and the 06's production (or lack of it) not really affecting the sales of the RX-8's since the two (at least the manuals) are "almost" identical.

tiggerlee

^Damn! You edited your post. Good thing, I had a real zinger of a comeback for ya. Oh well maybe next time.

Japan8

You REALLY need to read more. This is gone over ad infinitum on this site. I recently posted something about it in a thread in "General Automotive" that even included links on Japanese law.

Ford of Europe and Australia actually does pretty decently and makes some pretty interesting cars. Anyone remember the Contour... particularly the SVT model? The other Ford brands like Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc. are all doing better than they were before Ford took over. Look at Mazda.

Coming back to Mazda... Ford owns Mazda. Period. Ford picks their top management and approves/rejects major decisions. Period. There is no if, and but or whatever. 100% ownership isn't always done, particularly in Japan. All one needs is 1/3 of the shares to have veto rights in management decisions by Japanese law. Even more, Ford is the largest shareholder. In today's world all that adds up to is ownership. Why did Ford not buy more interest in Mazda? Why would they? They already have control. More interest just means costs money, increases liability and the Japanese government and businesses are real funny about takeovers and especially foreign ownership.

The last several presidents of Mazda Japan were all foreigners from Ford. The current president is the first Japanese in charge again since Ford took over (it was even specially mention in the media). Many in management, marketing, engineering, etc. of MNAO have also gone back and forth between Mazda and Ford. 'nuff said.

tiggerlee

I thought Ford only owned a third(33%) of Mazda? Not trying to bust your *****. Just some clarification.

Japan8

^^ did you even read the whole post before asking that question?

I didn't quote the specific % of shares owned, but it is generally irrelevent. It meets or exceeds 1/3 of Mazda's shares and they are the largest shareholder. End of story.

If you just wanted to know the number out of curiousity... 33.4%... I don't believe that they have raised it again since.
http://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/MAZDA/tokusyu4/e980526.html

tiggerlee

OK Ok So I may have had one too many glasses of wine so far tonight. It was just that one phrase that stuck in my head. That's what I responded to. My bad.

hemanrulez

haha yeah next time......

Krankor

Ok, so could you explain this to me so that it makes sense? The Japanese government doesn't want foreign ownership of Japanese companies... so they pass a law that says you only have to buy a *third* of the company to effectively own it? What, were they on drugs when they came up with this law?

Ike

Just because Mazda was profitable does not mean the RX-8 was. I don't know one way or another if it is but I really doubt it considering how heavily they've had to discount them to move em and how long they're sitting on dealer lots (I could be way off, I'm just going with my gut). If you think not even selling 50% of your original yearly sales goal means it's selling well, then I want some of what you're smoking.

This car should be selling like hotcakes, 10 best lists, great reviews, and sales are weak compared to other cars that it competes with and have been out longer. Can you honestly say you don't think part of the reason for that is from it being a little underpowered?

The RX-8 is the flagship according to Mazda so I don't know why you're saying otherwise. Lastly, the way people talk I'm not sure the RX-8 has really done much to strengthen the brand image of Mazda. Go to your average performance car forum and you'll get the feeling it's hurting it more than anything. I'm not saying it's right the way people bash the RX-8, just mentioning what I've seen.

Japan8

One had nothing to do with the other. That is merely coincidence. This has more to do with the Japanese business, banking and government structure which involves many umbrella corporations and "cross-holdings". Mitsubishi is a good example. Mitsubishi Construction, Chemical, Heavy Industries, Automotive and Mitsubishi UFJ Banking Group (formerly Tokyo-Mitsubishi Bank and UFJ Bank).

They DID pass a law stipulating that foreign companies that buyout banks and such must retain them for a period of time. This came following the buyout of the failed Long Term Credit Bank of Japan by Ripplewood. It was re-established at Shinsei Bank and does quite well now. Ripplewood is not a bank, they buy failing banks with potential for cheap (gov't auction usually), fix 'em up and then sell them at a great profit. So Ripplewood does not want to keep the bank... they want to sell it and move on to the next project.

There are other restrictions like foreign companies can own their own buildings, but they cannot own the land. There are a bunch of other things to help limit foreign corporate ownership in Japan.

JeRKy 8 Owner

I downsized my waist line and now I can fit into 32R thanks to Atkins and intense weight lifting. The question is will the 5 - 10 pounds I lost affect my RX-8?

RichardK

AMC didn't innovate when they were downsizing (i.e. pre Renault Alliance era)..

Sure.

And the AMC Eagle wasn't a crossover 15 years before Subaru 'invented' the genre with the Outback.

brillo

If you go over to rotarynews.com and red the interview with with the MNAO folks

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/762

you'll see Mazda does make money on the RX8. Ford won't allow Mazda to make a car that won't make money, Halo flagship or not. Not to mention, the RX8 platform underpins parts of the Miata and soon to be Kabura/RX3/MX3. This sportscar platform allows them to amortize the costs of the vehicle over a longer period and over several vehicles which translates into = Mazda makes money on the RX8.

This consistent bitching about the RX8 being underpowed is getting on my nerves.
The RX8 is not slow. It is however not as fast as a Sti or an EVO. Big ******* deal. It also costs $7K less. They only way the price becomes the same is if you dress the RX8 up to the hilt with Lux items. I paid $24K for mine.

The miata is not the most powerful car on the road. Its also the best selling sportscar in history. I don't see the bitching about it being underpowered for 12 years hurting its sales at all.

You want FD power? Spend $24-$25K on a New RX8 and then drop another $6K on a turbo and accessories. You can then go street race with your EVO/WRX buddies.

Get over the power issue. Mazda has never made that a priority. You can add more power if you want, but don't bitch when Mazda have been clear on their corporate MO for years.

RichardK

Okay, I have yet to get my 190. But... I don't understand the power bitching. Want more power, buy something with more power, it's easy.

For the money, the RX8 is astonishingly stylish, unusual, and offers better performance than MOST cars available in the price range (at least in the UK). It is also one of the few cars in the UK market to offer RWD, the others being prestige marques, the MX5 (no good if you want more seats), and specialist stuff. I think the only similar car we get is the 350Z which costs more, isn't pretty, and IIRC only seats two.

Here, the RX8 makes a good alternative to an Audi TT, BMW 1-series (and not the powerful 130i, but the 116 with kit, or 118), maybe a 3-series coupe. The Celica isn't even in the same game, let alone ballpark. It comfortably wipes the floor with the competition at the price, on paper, by reputation, and in terms of showroom appeal. The only reason I qualify that is that I have yet to drive it for myself (another 3 weeks or so... *sigh*).

Now, if we had Mustangs and so forth here, I could see arguments for them (I know they're not in the same league of sophistication, but I totally see the appeal in a crude, tough chassis and a V8), but we don't.

Krankor

Alright. I won't pretend that I completely understand, but thanks for the explanation.

torbee

Bingo!

That's precisecly the reason I had to argue with my wife about getting the car.

"It's impractical" "You'll never remember to check the oil!" "What if it floods?"

American culture is so pussified now, that the idea of actually checking your oil every few weeks or remembering a simple starting procedure is considered some sort of huge inconvenience.

I think the power issue is pretty minor, compared to the typical American who doesn't know a dipstick from a skinnydip not wanting the "hassle" of owning such a terribly impractical car.

BunnyGirl

I can't see that it is anymore trouble than a lot of other things. My mom and I do a lot of sewing and machine embroidery. You have to clean and lubricate the machine very regularly or it's not going to work just right and will wear out quickly. We have a commercial embroidery machine and you have to clean it and oil it every single day when you use it and if you are using it a lot in one day you have to do it more than once a day. It's just a matter of taking care of your equipment if you want it to work. What's the big deal??? EVERYTHING requires care and attention.

torbee

I totally agree with you Bunnygirl.

But don't you think the average American these days demands constant ease and hand-holding?

The thought of, God forbid, checking your own oil, is like kryptonite. I can't tell you how many people I've told I'm getting an RX8 have remarked on what a pain-in-the-*** that's going to be.

I'm like, a 10 minute chore every few weeks is that big of a deal?

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

some call it a chore, i consider it bonding time with my favorite toy

Transam kid 01

iTrader: (1)

stop being paranoid

BunnyGirl

I definitely will agree with that. Nobody wants to work for or put any effort into anything. They expect everything to be handed to them or done for them. It's just pure laziness. It's not that hard to check oil. I am not the slightest bit mechanically inclined and I have no problem whatsoever with checking the oil. It's all a part of owning a car. You have to take care of it.

JRichter

Nice response.

For the money you get an excellent overall package that is still easily at the top performance percentile of the cars most of us drive around with on a daily basis. Not to mention the exclusivity of the engine, styling that looks like no other, and tons of other reasons I love the RX-8 over so many other cars that we've all heard before...

280RX-8

I like this guy! Bunnygirl, too!