Brian302505

To Each their own. Heck, it could be worse it could be a Civic. I do like the RX-8 but only the interior not the exterior. As for the 05 Mustang I'm holding out to see a model that I can touch and see. Only 1 wish I would like to see that car have, but it's not happening at least right now. Have the IRS as a option for the GT. To a earlier reply, this new chassis, was specifically designed to handle both the live axle and the IRS. Not like the old Fox Chassis. Which they just shoehorned the IRS into. Mustang, RX-8, 350z, could they be considered the same class, I guess, but to me each car is a totally different beast. Since the Jac Nasser era ended in Ford did anyone notice Ford is trying to upgrade the cars with better materials and workmanship. Mazda was itself affected a little by the Jac Nasser era (yuck). I give Bill Ford credit he's trying his hardest to get Ford up there again. Just for the plasticky statement, Nissan Maxima uses the same plasticky feeling material:D. Anyways I'm looking at a Mazda3 what do you guys think about that little car.

Speed-ER doc

I loved, loved, loved the Cobra convertible, it is so much fun to drive with that super-powerful engine that sounds sooo good. I almost bought it instead of my 8.

But the inside reminded me of a rental car, and the stick felt like I was doing arm exercises. The 8 fits like a glove. I miss the open air of my Miata though.

klegg

I have noticed the change. My neighbor just got a ford truck, and I have to say that the interior is first rate, it looks like a luxery car!

But they have a lonnnnng way to go before I forgive them for the SVO....I still wake up screaming thinking about it.

I really like the new three, outside is racy, and interior is very nice...A 6 is not that much more, have you taken a look at it?

manok_adobo

quote by Omicron

Before seeing the RX8 back in May 2003. I have planned to wait for the 2005 Mustang.

I'm so happy I got the RX8.

Just look at the interior

Outlaws eXtreme

Saw the 2005 Mustang at the LA Auto show, and that car looks terrible in person. Interior was very "plastic" looking, and it was just cheap overrall. It's supposed to be priced similar to RX-8 pricing... but when it's all said and done, RX-8 will still catch people's attention.

klegg

trying to go retro on the inside...and it is a new design, but still has a live rear axel..big mistake there.

HighRev'n

I saw it at the San Jose Auto Show. Man the rims on that car were huge. 19"? The car was on a pedestal so the rims were at eye level. Maybe that made them look bigger. Overall I didn't like the look of the car. I think the pictures of it look better than seeing it in person. Thumbs down for me.

s13lover

Profile and interior is okay. Back is great b/c is has retro cues but blends in nice modern lines. The front is ugly as hell - very cheap looking and bland.

zerohour

Id get rid of my car in a second if i could get the Lotus. Looks better best handeling hands down. As true a sports car as anyone could ever make. Its light you can kick peoples **** stock if you chose to do so. There is just no comparison IMHO. If you can show me one area where the 8 bests the Lotus please do (besides 4 seats lol).

Take a look at these pics they may change your mind lol (at least im drooling lol)

http://www.puresportscar.com/gallery...ry.php?cat=519

Dont get me wrong I love my 8 to death but if I could get any car in the world it would be the lotus and id do it in a heartbeat. Its al little out of my price range however so ill have to pass at this point.

emailists

I would love the Lotus as well, I saw it on a trip to the UK last year and flipped otu after seeing it in person.

I also really liked the Mustang conceprt car I saw at the NY auto show almost a year ago, when I went there to specifically see the RX8. I loved the Mustang, but was in the market for a car sooner than the 15 months Ford was mentioning, and got the * (which I then did the buyback for a few weeks ago) I saw pics of the Mustang that is acually going to be released- and to me they look nothing like the concept- so I'm getting another 8- hopfully with better gas milage.

Ike

Bleh, the concept looked great I thought, but the production cars fall short with the interior and exterior.

Ike

Japan8

For those who already are hating on the car before it is even released... even though BOTH the RX-8 and Mustand are Ford group cars... wait until you read the end of my post before commenting.

Yep and the 2005 Mustang weighs around what the auto RX-8 does...3300 if I remember correctly (and I may not be!). In addition this IS an entirely new platform. Not the 1979 Fox plaform that has been the base of all Mustangs 1979-2004. Articles on the subject say that Ford knows the Stang needs better handling... particularly with the demise of the Camaro/TransAm... compeition comes down between the Stang and the imports... for those with a mind open to buying whatever drives the best for them...

Um... check out the Janurary 2004 Motor Trend. est. base price is $27,000 and the SOHC 4.6 V8 has found more power with the change to 3 valves from 2 valves... this has bumped hp to 300. The Stang is going to cook the RX-8 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile. Ford is going to make another higher performance Stang (Boss, Bullet, Mach 1) again... meaning likely 320-350 hp. The Cobra... it will be in excess of 400hp and still under $40k I'd imagine.

Ford has also been playing with an all aluminum DOHC V10 in a Stang body... hmm...

Yep... and guess why Ford does? Because even if you hate it, think it's crap... apparantly your opinion is in the minority as Ford sold so many Mustangs, they pushed the Camaro/TransAm out of production.

In Japan, Mazda is just a minor an auto maker as they are in the US. I wouldn't expect their sales to be phenomenal

Suprise for all of you... Honda is just another Mazda... minor in Japan. But for some odd reason they sell like crazy in the US. JDM is mostly Toyota and Nissan. Then Mitsubishi , Honda and Mazda. Then Kei-car market is a bit different... we'll leave that out for now.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Now all of that being said...

I had been waiting and waiting for years for this Stang to come out... a return to what is really the Mustang. The oil crisis lead to the ugly POS in 74-78. 1979 saw Ford make a half-*** attempt at coming back with a real sports car, but based it off the Ford Fairmont's fox platform?! So that bodystyle with no relation to the car's soul was produce from 79- 04. And now for '05 on a new plaform, Ford returns the car back to the evolutionary lines it should have been on. On paper... great power, and better handling than the previous generation.

And then I saw the RX-8.

I have loved the RX-7/rotary engine since the first RX-7 in 1979 (I think it was). So this return was a great thing for me... Taking it out for a test drive just confirmed... I_WANT_THIS_CAR! The clencher... well with kids coming up in the 2-3 year range... I need backdoors on my car and a useable backseat. Frankly... the 2005 Stang's backseat looks like the Camaro's... useless (I sat in it before and would rather not again) and she's only got 2 doors. So it'll be an RX-8 for me... although I'll be certain to run the hell out of Stang or two on test drives at the dealer...

klegg

Interesting post...I was under the impression that mazda was ranked number 4 in japan ever since the mitsu fiasco (hiding compliants, not doing needed recalls, ect..) but you would know better then me, since you live there..

The strong point of all the 'pony' cars has always been thier low price v. their 0-60 performance..they have never been know for their refinement.

The trouble is, taste has changed. People expect both now..

and the new stang has a live rear. and really can not set the world on fire with handeling. It also is over priced.

Oh, I also think most of us here like to forget there is any relation between mazda and ford..

FamilyGuy

If Ford makes most of the reasonable options (AC, LSD, CD, decent sound system, ABS, etc...) part of the standard package and not expensive add-ons, they got the pricing just right. The price I read was $17,000 for the 202 horsepower V6 model and $24,000 for the 300 horsepower GT.

I don't think there are any other cars you can buy new with that much power at that kind of price.

Plus, the platform for the new Mustang is the same one for the Lincoln LS. The handling won't set the world on fire, but it should be an improvement over the previous generations.



Japan8,
To answer some of your comments:
- I haven's seen any weight listings for the new Mustang. If it's 3300 pounds or less, that's great. The previous Mustang and Mustang Cobra weren't quite as quick as their nice horsepower numbers would indicate because the car was so heavy (Cobra was more than 3800 pounds, if I recall correctly).
- I wouldn't get my hopes up for a return of the Mach 1 trim or an affordable Cobra trim. Previously the Mustang GT used a 2 valve SOHC V8, the Mach 1 used a 4 valve DOHC V8, and the Cobra used a supercharged version of the engine in the Mach 1. The new Mustang has the 3 valve SOHC, and it is my understanding that the DOHC V8 is going to be dropped. A supercharged version of that 3 valve SOHC is going to need to run some serious boost and have a few other tricks to match the present generation's 390 horsepower. The V10 would be awesome beyond belief, but Ford would never offer it for a sub $40,000 price.
- I wasn't saying that the Mustang was bad because it's more common than the RX8. I just meant that an RX8 is automatically more unique because it is a less common car. "Unique" does not mean "better", just less common. If you want a really unique car, drive a Ford Pinto. Everyone will notice because you will have one of the only Pintos on the road - but nobody will claim that it is a great car.

wakeech

...when i first got into cars, like way way long time ago, i'm afraid to admit that i was a "mustang guy".

fascinated with the power, and just the popularity, i slowly came to realize that mustangs actually aren't all that special as sports cars, at least not since the 1960's.

now that i look at the architecture, i see that their engines are really quite, umm... not good.
being ignorant, i related displacement to engine size, and figured that V8's, especially those of the American flavour, were junk. but it's slowly become evident to me that the Chev small block, while it could still use a whole lot more development and still isn't my favourite, is vastly superior to Ford's 4.6L DOHC (which is a real lump of an engine, pushing 400hp or not).

if they made a V10 engine, ha... i dunno, i just don't know if a car big enough to hold that enormous SOB would be slick enough to be called a sports car, unless they got smart and stopped trying to play the stupid displacement war with the other two big boys.

Japan8

Well new cars sales has likely dropped... what Mitsu did is just SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for the average large Japanese company. Bookkeeping by banks, the government and large business is REAL dirty here.

Back to topic... I suspect that Mazda has moved up. The Atenza (M 6) has been selling pretty well and hell... there are two RX-8's in my apartment building and a guy at work had one too. I suspect the Axcela (M3) will sell decently as well... as the S-Wagon (P 5) seemed to have started a new trend of small sporty wagons... HOWEVER... Mitsubishi also has Mitsu Heavy Industries which makes contrsuction, etc. machinery and Mitsu's work truck is probably the leading one on farms. Mazda's I've seen once maybe. I think Toyota makes one.... but I don't think Honda does. Outside of Mitsu this LARGE market is run by Daihatsu... but then we are getting into the kei-car market... and Suzuki and Daihatsu are king here.

No, but outside of the GT, it's all Ford's got, and with the sales it pulls they are hardly afford to half-*** it this time around. As someone else mentioned... the price v performance is almost impossible to beat.

Which is why I suspect it'll handle decently... no Porsche, but it'll kick the *** of old Stangs.

And the top model will have IRS... thus better handling. Yeah it'll cost more, but it will be even faster yet. You do know the current Cobra can take a Viper with an exhaust change and a pulley change on the supercharger, right? It was an article in a past issue of a Mustang magazine...

[QUOTE]
Oh, I also think most of us here like to forget there is any relation between mazda and ford.. [QUOTE]

That'll never change, so I'd suggest for people to get used to the idea. As a matter of fact, where do you think that intergrated stereo/climate control console came from? Smells of Ford Tarus...

Japan8

I agree completely. We'll have to wait until summer/fall to find out, but if Ford does that up right... they'll probably have another winner on their hands.

Nope... and that has been part of its appeal since '64.

Exactly. My old '90, which has become my father's project car, actually handled better than I expected. Hearing talk like I do on this board I expected a dog, but... it felt much better than I thought it would. This was coming from a Sentra SE and a Prelude Si...


The weight is 3425 according to the magazine scan I found...

http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/time...5/05/index.htm

So we are looking a decently quick car.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I could have sworn that the inbetween performance model was going to return again...

Dropping the DOHC V8 would be dumb... I doubt they have that in mind, as the Cobra will need to top 390hp. If the demand is there for the V10 in the Cobra... I think Ford will do it. But I dunno about having enough demand for it.

As someone whom always likes to have a unique car, I understand and agree completely. Even if similiarly priced, the Mustang may be faster, but the RX-8 is more unique.

FamilyGuy

Up until less than 10 years ago, there weren't internet discussion forums. If you wanted to learn about cars, you caught the shows on TV or what was in the races - which banned forced induction. You talked to the guy down the block. Maybe you subscribed to a few magazines, like Hot Rod or Mustang and Fords. For that kind of guy - most American guys out for a relatively inexpensive sporty car, big displacement and big numbers for horsepower and torque are what brought him to the lot for a test drive.

When I started at this forum, I was really disappointed in the 159 ft*lb rating for the RX8. I had no idea about open differential vs. limited slip differential. I didn't know about the final drive ratio, weight distribution, torque curves, gearing, and the all important horsepower to weight ratio. There are still people here that think the upcoming Lotus is a joke because it only has 180 horsepower - they just haven't been taught to consider that 180 horsepower in an 1800 pound car equals hell on wheels.

Ford knows that the big displacement, big numbers car buyer still exists, and they're capitalizing on it. More power to them. Me? I've been corrupted. I probably never will be able to afford anything more sporty than a station wagon.... but if I can, I will definitely test drive a Mustang but almost certainly instead pick a Miata, or RX8, or S2000.

visitor

big displacement wars? that's funny, ford's engine has actually gotten smaller since 94. The big *** 7.5l v8 is now a 6.8l v10. the 7.3l diesel is now a 6.0l diesel. their 5.8l v8 went down to 5.4l. their 5.0l v8 is now a 4.6l. the only engine that has gone up is the old i6 which was a 3.9 now a 4.3 or 4.2. dodge and chevy have all gone up, though they do offer smaller block engines.

FamilyGuy

Well, part of the changes are because Ford went from using pushrods and regular diesels to SOHC and DOHC engines, changes to valve timing and other optimizations, and turbodiesels.

I just meant to point out that the Mustang is the only sub $30,000 performance car you can buy with more than 6 cylinders or 3.8 liters of displacement. I imagine Ford could get the same performance from a turbocharged smaller engine and it probably would have been lighter too. Ford probably never even considered that option because the name Mustang is synonymous with V8 and a deep rumble from the exhaust, regardless of the performance advantages of a different engine configuration.

FamilyGuy

Care to elaborate on this? Why are the engines not good? What's wrong with the Ford 4.6L DOHC, why is the Chevy small block better?

I'm not picking a fight, just asking. This stuff is fun to learn

visitor

88 Mustang SVO. 2.3 turbocharged engine. Ford even released a very limited run of it's special DOHC 2.3T engine that was supposedly put in the Merkur's. That engine stock was rated at 250 at the flywheel. The SV0's 2.3T was somewhere around 200-250. Tuners can put 300 to the wheels without many mods.

visitor

the cobra's 4.6l is not vastly inferior to the chevy small block. granted it's supercharged, but the internals alone are good up to 800hp. it's basically the american skyline engine. you could drop 3g's on the ls6, get header and cams and you ve got a mid 10 second car. you could spend half the amount and be in the same area with the cobra. now the cars that the 4.6 sits in may not be quite as good as what chevy has to offer, but if you're comapring engine to engine, the modular is pretty damn nice.

FamilyGuy

I would bet the '88 SVO with the 2.3T was a damned good car. I would also bet that Ford went back to using V8s because lots of Mustang enthusiasts would not buy it, no matter how good it was. For better or worse, most American muscle car enthusiasts like big engines in their vehicles.

klegg

I owned a SVO. WHen it worked it was a fine car. Problem was, it never worked! The GT was always faster, cheaper and more reliable..For a while the SVO had a better suspension, with the quad shock rear, but they moved that over to the GT...The SVO did have better seats, and a better shifter.

All in all, I look back at my SVO as a huge mistake by ford, and a real nightmare for me!!