gusmahler

Why don't street cars use sequential gearboxes? I'm not talking about SMG or Tiptronic. I'm talking about motorcycle/Champ car style shifting using a manually operated clutch, but only moving up/down a lever instead of an H pattern. See http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox.htm

It would seem to be easy to put in a car. And you lessen the risk of missed shifts.

moRotorMotor

I am no expert, but I'll take a stab in the dark. Cost and chances of one more thing breaking on the car.

BlueEyes

Well I don't know why they don't have a clutch then a sequential gearbox. like on a bike.
Street cars however do use sequntial gearboxes, SMG is a sequential gearbox, the paddles you find on the 8 are not, that is just an automatic transmission

gusmahler

As I mentioned in the original post, I'm not talking about SMG or Tiptronic. I'm talking about motorcycle style gearboxes.

gusmahler

Considering that motorcycles are much cheaper than cars and they all have these transmissions, I doubt that cost is the reason.

truemagellen

because it is nice to jump from 6th to 3rd gear or other way around

BlueEyes

yeah, I read that, then I got confused because you asked about sequential gearboxes and that website didn't talk about motorcycle transmission so much as it talked about race cars which don't have a driver operated clutch in most cases.

I don't know why car mfg's don't do it like motorcycles, then I don't know why motorcycles do it like motorcycles. It seems odd to have the manual clutch and sequential gearbox. Maybe it is a weight or volume thing, maybe a reliability issue.

I doubt many people would be interested in it anyhow. People seem to either like the manuals or like the sequentials. I have never met someone that said, "I like the paddles, I just wish the car had a manual clutch"., nor anyone that says "I like the no clutch, I just wish I could shift an H pattern"

I hope to hear some good answers though

BlueEyes

Really though, the only reason to do that is to save time rowing through the gears. You can jump from 6 to 3 in a seq. box too, it just rows through 5 4 in the blink of an eye before it gets there.

rx8wannahave

What I wish was to make the clutch "automatic", no...I aint talking an auto tranny *yuck*, I'm saying getting rid of the clutch pedal.

I have heard about it before, when you grad the stick and press or hold it a certain way it presses the clutch automaticly but still allows you to pick the gears yourself.

That...my friends, is what I would want in our 8!

BlueEyes

That is what SMG and Ferrari's F1 transmission etc are. They are mechanically identical to a manual transmission other than an automatically activated clutch and the method of gear selection, paddles or back and forth. There is no torque converter like in an autotranny.

rx8wannahave

Ah, now I know what SMG & F1 style mean...LOL, but why did you guys not just say that the first time...???LOL

BlueEyes

That's not what he wants though. He is looking for F1 style gear selection with a clutch. Im confused too, although it is just like a motorcycle so I see his point.

rx8wannahave

Huh? OK...I agree, that would not make sense? The whole reason is to get rid of the clutch pedal????

truemagellen

you don't have a manual clutch to feather and may a smooth transition from 6 to 3 in fact most seq. have systems to prevent a downshift such as that so you don't destroy something

it is a beautiful thing to be riding along at 60MPH and down shift to 3rd with a quick feather of the clutch and BAM it is like being shot out of a cannnon...AMAZING feeling

plus you can be precise about it...meanwhile in a sequential you go down down down trying to make sure you went down the correct number...no confidence...plus it isn't smooth since it does a down down down exchange

NO I love manuals 6 to 3 is where it is at...sequential is bullshit just like the paddles are bullshit...4 gears to paddle through is a tease if I had an auto I'd drive it in auto, paddles are for show

Xyntax

There's a new Audi, I think it was the Quattro, that has the sequential-type maneumatic transmission. Basically, it carries two sets: 1 contains 1, 3, 5 gear and the other 2, 4, 6 gear. Both sets have their own clutch that is electronically controlled. So it doesn't lose the advantage of an M/T yet it shifts like A/T... very quick. I know an episode on C&D showed it.

BlueEyes

I love manuals just as much as the next guy and enjoy the challenge that comes with using them effectively. I also see the advantages of, and respect, the sequential gearboxes.

It sounds like you havent driven a decent sequential box, infact, it sounds like you have driven tiptronic automatics. Ferrari's F1 tranny and I would think SMG let you drop three gears IF that drop isn't going to blow up your engine. As well, it's pretty easy to keep track of the gears, no more difficult that a manual in any case.

gusmahler

The reason I'm asking is cost. SMGs are supposedly great (if it's true that the 2006 RX8 will have one, I may have to trade my 04 RX8 in). But they are expensive. A motorcycle style gearbox shouldn't be any more expensive than an H-pattern shifter.

GiN

An actual motorcycle gearbox may be relatively cheap in comparison to a standard car transmission, but true sequential shift transmissions (like those used in race cars) tend to have a starting cost in the low five digit range. Having worked in the off road industry as well as in professional racing, I've seen quite a few of these odd gearboxes and know they have all ranged in cost from 15k (vw-style mendeola sequential shift, mid/rear engine type) to 80k (xtrac, as seen in the ALMS S7-R). While I'm not sure if these things were expensive due to the application, I would at least assume they are much more expensive than motorcycle transmissions due to their increased capacity for stress and strain in driving something that weighs at least 6 times more than your average motorcycle.

jsh1120

Actually, I think the survival of the "H" pattern (and its descendants) in manual transmissions is nothing more than tradition and hesitation on the part of manufacturers to introduce a change that might not be welcomed by people already used to a particular shifting pattern. I have paddle shifters on my Saab (auto, not SMG), and find the entire exercise to be difficult to adapt to. (But then, I'm old and set in my ways. )

Actually, I happened across a discussion of the same topic after responding. It seems that, indeed, it's market resistance more than anything else that preserves the old "H" pattern.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...=107408&page=1

PUR NRG

I think survival of the "H" pattern is due to KISS and precedent. When people shift they want to shift without having to think about the relationship between what gear they're in and what gear they want to be in. (Ever hand a clerk $13.10 for a $7.85 bill? It's amazing how many want to give back $3.10 before making change.) The vast majority of drivers won't know or appreciate the performance benefits of sequential shifters.
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Japan8

...for fuel economy... as GM has the Corvette's gearbox is setup with a lock-out to keep you in higher gears at low speeds (at least the 90's models).

Japan8

Beacause the internals are ENTIRELY different! I'll have to find you some sites on this to read...

Japan8

I agree with your sentiments, but unless you've ridden a motorcycle, you don7t understand how wrong you are. A motorcycle can be shifted in less time than is possible in a manual transmission car. Basically any typical bike has pro-racing (F-1) level of shift speed (given a competent rider). I can drop from 6th to4th on my bike in the blink of an eye and you want to REALLY talk about feeling like being shot out of a cannon. And my shifting is far from as fast and smooth as more experienced riders, much less the pros.

In cars... it's clutch and double-H or die though. I'll never buy another automatic ("#&$('%)# piece of #'$&!!!) nor a SMG...

Japan8

but you totally aren't taking in to account the fact that the parts are smaller and lighter. Many times using more aluminum, Ti, CF, and other exotic stuff to reduce weight. In addition race bikes like the Honda RC211V are putting out over 225hp to this compact, light gear system.

Vertigo-1

iTrader: (3)

You heard it here first then. I would love to have a car that had no clutch but where I could shift through an H pattern. :D In fact this is what I envisioned the SMG RX-8 being like. I do hope they don't stick it with paddles and no stick to shift around.