Why doesn't Subaru make a car that actually looks good?
05-17-2005, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Steiner
Whatever Subaru is doing. it's working. 20 years ago, among plummeting sales, economists predicted that Subaru would have to pull out of the USDM. What a turnaround. IIRC they're growing between 8-12% in the US almost every year. For a company that size that's amazing.
Personally I don't care what a car looks like (assuming it's not a Citron, Pinto, etc) if it can haul *** and handle like some of the Subarus. The only time I ever see the outside of my car is when I'm washing it or walking up to it. The rest of the time it's everybody else's problem. :p
I have a Scottish in-law who once told me that in the UK the Ford Fiesta used to be offered in a turbo charged version called the "RS". He said in Europe the word "Fiesta" brings a totally different image to mind than what people over here know. Apparently that version never made it to the US...
Personally I don't care what a car looks like (assuming it's not a Citron, Pinto, etc) if it can haul *** and handle like some of the Subarus. The only time I ever see the outside of my car is when I'm washing it or walking up to it. The rest of the time it's everybody else's problem. :p
I have a Scottish in-law who once told me that in the UK the Ford Fiesta used to be offered in a turbo charged version called the "RS". He said in Europe the word "Fiesta" brings a totally different image to mind than what people over here know. Apparently that version never made it to the US...
They still make performance versions of the Fiesta and always have. The latest is the ST.
05-17-2005, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by truemagellen
very good point
Subaru's business model works. They are a success story. Sinking millions of dollars of R&D into an exotic nobody can afford is a marketing ploy. Subaru already has name recognition and Lance Armstrong doing commercials so why would they need that?
05-17-2005, 11:04 PM
#54
Stuck in a love triangle
I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast **** box.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
05-17-2005, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast **** box.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
You don't consider the Legacy a sportier (non-rally inspired) sedan thats fast?
05-18-2005, 12:22 AM
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Ike sure doesn't like the Subs to be put down in any way 
No problem pointing out the 8s perceived flaws though. I have to like the looks of what I drive and if you don't street race noone will convince me the 8 doesn't have more then enough power. Hell of alot sexier and they know it so they have to talk about power that is rarely used without eyeballing for the flashing lights and 100 dollar plus fines. I can get there plenty fast, have a great interior, comfort and great looks. You can have the ugly boxes. Kids tend to like fast over overall package. Kind of like a highend stereo in a rustbucket like i have seen
No problem pointing out the 8s perceived flaws though. I have to like the looks of what I drive and if you don't street race noone will convince me the 8 doesn't have more then enough power. Hell of alot sexier and they know it so they have to talk about power that is rarely used without eyeballing for the flashing lights and 100 dollar plus fines. I can get there plenty fast, have a great interior, comfort and great looks. You can have the ugly boxes. Kids tend to like fast over overall package. Kind of like a highend stereo in a rustbucket like i have seen
05-18-2005, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steiner
Actually it's not. Subaru already has a flagship. It performs just as well as the early Vipers except you don't have to be a fortune 500 executive to own one...plus you can drive it in the snow.
Subaru's business model works. They are a success story. Sinking millions of dollars of R&D into an exotic nobody can afford is a marketing ploy. Subaru already has name recognition and Lance Armstrong doing commercials so why would they need that?
Subaru's business model works. They are a success story. Sinking millions of dollars of R&D into an exotic nobody can afford is a marketing ploy. Subaru already has name recognition and Lance Armstrong doing commercials so why would they need that?
I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.
You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.
05-18-2005, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MyRx-8yourcar
You don't consider the Legacy a sportier (non-rally inspired) sedan thats fast?
05-18-2005, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellar
Uh, yeah. You have absolutely no idea what a flagship car is. It has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with perception, which is driven largely by numbers, but not dictated by them alone.
I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.
You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.
I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.
You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.
In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.
05-18-2005, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by khtm
Disclaimer: I know that looks are subjective and that this thread might get ugly, but keep in mind that it's just my opinion...
05-18-2005, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellar
Uh, yeah. You have absolutely no idea what a flagship car is. It has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with perception, which is driven largely by numbers, but not dictated by them alone.
I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.
You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.
I can't argue that Subaru's business model doesn't work. They're here. When they aren't, that'll be the sign that it doesn't work.
You don't have to be a Fortune 500 executive to buy a $65,000 car. The Viper was the cheapest supercar (unless you consider the Acura NSX a supercar) of its time. Anyway, it's about image. Subaru's image isn't what all the fanbois would have you believe. Outside of like three internet forums (you *do* pop your head out there into the real world once in a while, right?) nobody knows what an STi is.
Now if you pack a lineup full of fast, reliable, affordable, practical, and fun to drive cars then you've got something. Sound familiar? FYI every car enthusiast on the planet knows what an STi and WRX is, as does your average car guy/girl and those are the only people I really care about when it comes to cars.
05-18-2005, 02:39 AM
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I would have loved to own an Sti. It's just the sedan look that puts me off, and that wing.
Does Subaru still make the 2-door version? A properly kitted-out 2-door Sti could look decent.
Does Subaru still make the 2-door version? A properly kitted-out 2-door Sti could look decent.
05-18-2005, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Casue we all know the carmakers that are the biggest and sell the most cars are the superior ones. There are more Pontiacs on the road than Mazdas, I guess that makes them better. At least Subaru has controlling interest in their own company unlike Mazda.
'Nuff said.
They're part of the Fuji group... they've got the cash and they're run better than Mitsubishi.
05-18-2005, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by hotpot
I would have loved to own an Sti. It's just the sedan look that puts me off, and that wing.
Does Subaru still make the 2-door version? A properly kitted-out 2-door Sti could look decent.
Does Subaru still make the 2-door version? A properly kitted-out 2-door Sti could look decent.
05-18-2005, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Steiner
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the STi is Subaru's current flagship...just as Chevy has the Corvette, Dodge has the Viper, Mitsubishi has the Evo, Mazda has the RX-8 and Nissan has the 350Z. Since apparently, at almost 30 years of age, I'm some sort of clearing house for fanboi knowledge, let me impart some upon you: the "flagship" is the car that gets passer-bys into the dealership, gets folks talking, and gives the salemen a chance to yank his employer's chain. It sits shining and freshly waxed on the showroom floor. It takes center stage at the auto show exhibit. It's featured in auto mag covers and, above else, it's the car that marketeers describe with words like "our vision", "forefront", "innovative" and "tomorrow".
In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.
In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.
05-18-2005, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Perception is for morons, it also usually doesn't work which is the reason there are no longer cars like the Supra, 3000GT, and FD RX-7, SVX, and soon no NSX.
Now if you pack a lineup full of fast, reliable, affordable, practical, and fun to drive cars then you've got something. Sound familiar? FYI every car enthusiast on the planet knows what an STi and WRX is, as does your average car guy/girl and those are the only people I really care about when it comes to cars.
Now if you pack a lineup full of fast, reliable, affordable, practical, and fun to drive cars then you've got something. Sound familiar? FYI every car enthusiast on the planet knows what an STi and WRX is, as does your average car guy/girl and those are the only people I really care about when it comes to cars.
It runs over and over like a tape loop. Girls think the dork in the funny looking boy-racer car is checking them out, but that quote is all he's thinking.
05-18-2005, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast **** box.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
05-18-2005, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by StealthFox
uum, the legacy was designed as a rally car, it was subarus rally car untill they designed the Impreza to take its place.
I'm not saying it never was, I'm saying the redesigned Legacy's are far from rally inspired.
05-18-2005, 10:22 AM
#73
Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
I wish Mitsubishi would relaunch the 3000 GT platform with an engine as powerful as the EVO 8's. Then you could have both looks and performance out of one of their cars instead of a wicked fast **** box.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous how two of these manufacturers have disgustingly fast cars that don't look sporty at all.
But instead, they do just the opposite... revamp the Eclipse again and keep the exterior looking more like a sedan than sports car.
EVO - AWD, 2.0L I4, single-turbo, 287 hp
VR4 - AWD, All-Wheel Steering, Active Suspension, Active Aerodynamics, 3.0L V6, twin-turbo, 320 hp
550 whp VR4 is faster than a 700 whp Supra.
05-18-2005, 10:32 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by Steiner
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the STi is Subaru's current flagship...just as Chevy has the Corvette, Dodge has the Viper, Mitsubishi has the Evo, Mazda has the RX-8 and Nissan has the 350Z. the "flagship" is the car that gets passer-bys into the dealership, gets folks talking, and gives the salemen a chance to yank his employer's chain. It sits shining and freshly waxed on the showroom floor. It takes center stage at the auto show exhibit. It's featured in auto mag covers and, above else, it's the car that marketeers describe with words like "our vision", "forefront", "innovative" and "tomorrow".
In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.
In the "real" world flagships don't have huge followings...they have niche followings of uber enthusiasts. Their technological advancements allow a company to say "well, if we can make that then imagine what our other cars are like". Get it now? That's a flagship...not automatically the best selling car, or the biggest SUV or the most expensive ride. It's a combination part perception, part intangibles, and part something else.
Originally Posted by Steiner
The RX-8 is no longer Mazda's flagship.
Originally Posted by IKEWRX
If you had any clue what you were talking about you would know that Millenia was going to be the luxury brand for Mazda, it wasn't originally supposed to just be one car. Who's the "turd" now? I also know a lot of people that admire the looks of the RX-8 but wouldn't be caught dead owning one, so what's your point?
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In any event, what does it matter if subaru changes it's style or not. Obviously, they're selling as is and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Plain and simple. You can complain about every car but the fact is, cars are made for MANY ppl to enjoy, not for one person.
05-18-2005, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
Actually, you're wrong about this statement. The Mazda luxury brand was going to be called Amati.
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In any event, what does it matter if subaru changes it's style or not. Obviously, they're selling as is and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Plain and simple. You can complain about every car but the fact is, cars are made for MANY ppl to enjoy, not for one person.