Why are automakers shunning a market with a lot of potential?
06-24-2006, 01:51 AM
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Why are automakers shunning a market with a lot of potential?
Where are the RWD FI cars??? An affordable coupe or a small sedan with factory FI and a fairly light weight would be such a big hit right now. Every autocrosser, drifter, trackday junkie, and import tuner, and fast import lover would take serious notice if there was such a car on the market right now.
If Mazda was smart they would take their 2.3l and shove it in their Kabura and get that puppy to market ASAP. The same goes for GM and a coupe version of the Sky and Solstice similar to the VX220. Mitsubishi and Chrysler also have an engine they could easily use, they just need to have a car to put it in. I certainly would love to see a modern version of the Starion. Nissan could also bring back the Silvia/240SX with an updated version of the SR20det. It seems like the time is right, someone just needs to do it now.
If Mazda was smart they would take their 2.3l and shove it in their Kabura and get that puppy to market ASAP. The same goes for GM and a coupe version of the Sky and Solstice similar to the VX220. Mitsubishi and Chrysler also have an engine they could easily use, they just need to have a car to put it in. I certainly would love to see a modern version of the Starion. Nissan could also bring back the Silvia/240SX with an updated version of the SR20det. It seems like the time is right, someone just needs to do it now.
06-24-2006, 05:48 AM
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The GM cars you mentioned are going to do that in a few months. The Pontiac Solstice will be available in the GTP trim and the Saturn Sky in the Redline trim. Both will be using a 240 hp FI version of the current ~170 hp I4 ECOTEC engine that is in both vehicles. Now only if my 8 came factory FI.....
06-24-2006, 07:45 AM
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yeah. you do have some points. but wouldn't the cost in producing a FI powered car overruled this idea?
like for say, the SR20det was a lot more expensive than the SR20 or the VQ24. so mass producing ( i am talking about at the number of NB miatas) these FI cars makes less money for the companies but more troubles ( increase price of insurance and more warrnaty issues)
like for say, the SR20det was a lot more expensive than the SR20 or the VQ24. so mass producing ( i am talking about at the number of NB miatas) these FI cars makes less money for the companies but more troubles ( increase price of insurance and more warrnaty issues)
06-24-2006, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by flomulgator
The GM cars you mentioned are going to do that in a few months. The Pontiac Solstice will be available in the GTP trim and the Saturn Sky in the Redline trim. Both will be using a 240 hp FI version of the current ~170 hp I4 ECOTEC engine that is in both vehicles. Now only if my 8 came factory FI.....
I think Ike meant not a convertible and probably not a 2 seater. That is one of the benefits to the WRX/STi and Evo... they can seat 4 and hold some luggage. What would be nice is a RWD Mazda6 or hell... even a Kabura-based car...
06-24-2006, 12:03 PM
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imo, Mazda could do very well carving out a niche as the budget BMW by making all thier cars rwd. The 6 is a nice car, but honestly, what does it really have on the competition? Not that much. Now make it rwd and it's one of a kind in its price bracket. A rwd 3 would imediatly steal market share from the GTI, and civic. The thing i don't know is how much extra cost is involved, but if they can squeeze it in for an extra $1000 or so they should do it on the next redesign of all thier models.
06-24-2006, 12:22 PM
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^ ditto that. I've been thinking something similar when talking about reviving Ford or GM.
Mazda should most definitely look at making something unique. I dunno about entirely dropping the FWD 3 and 6 in the end though. I agree that they offer little to draw one away from the competition... the MS3 will have more power and handling we'll see. The numbers from Mazda must be REALLY conservative (ala MS6) with a 0-60 of 6.0sec... the same as the heavier, lower powered GTI. To take market from the GTI, Mini, and Civic Si, Mazda needs to bring the fully optioned version of this car in at a low price. Just a little more than the Civic Si.
But I'm getting off topic. Mazda should build a new rwd sedan that is priced in the Legacy GT price range. Make it light, use the DISI Turbo engine (costs already amortized over the MS6, MS3, CX-7 and JDM MPV) and make sure this bad boy comes in stick. For the lower market... they've got the Kabura-based car coming... but maybe a 3 door hatch model would be a good addition as well.
Mazda should most definitely look at making something unique. I dunno about entirely dropping the FWD 3 and 6 in the end though. I agree that they offer little to draw one away from the competition... the MS3 will have more power and handling we'll see. The numbers from Mazda must be REALLY conservative (ala MS6) with a 0-60 of 6.0sec... the same as the heavier, lower powered GTI. To take market from the GTI, Mini, and Civic Si, Mazda needs to bring the fully optioned version of this car in at a low price. Just a little more than the Civic Si.
But I'm getting off topic. Mazda should build a new rwd sedan that is priced in the Legacy GT price range. Make it light, use the DISI Turbo engine (costs already amortized over the MS6, MS3, CX-7 and JDM MPV) and make sure this bad boy comes in stick. For the lower market... they've got the Kabura-based car coming... but maybe a 3 door hatch model would be a good addition as well.
06-24-2006, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by flomulgator
The GM cars you mentioned are going to do that in a few months. The Pontiac Solstice will be available in the GTP trim and the Saturn Sky in the Redline trim. Both will be using a 240 hp FI version of the current ~170 hp I4 ECOTEC engine that is in both vehicles. Now only if my 8 came factory FI.....
06-24-2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by map
imo, Mazda could do very well carving out a niche as the budget BMW by making all thier cars rwd. The 6 is a nice car, but honestly, what does it really have on the competition? Not that much. Now make it rwd and it's one of a kind in its price bracket. A rwd 3 would imediatly steal market share from the GTI, and civic. The thing i don't know is how much extra cost is involved, but if they can squeeze it in for an extra $1000 or so they should do it on the next redesign of all thier models.
06-24-2006, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
For the average consumer I think RWD has less appeal, and you'll hurt sales in areas with inclement weather.
06-24-2006, 01:03 PM
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I know what you mean IKe... that's why I said not to toss out the FWD Mazda3 and Mazda6, but instead add a new model that is priced in the Legacy GT range (MS6 prices), but is RWD.
06-24-2006, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
For the average consumer I think RWD has less appeal, and you'll hurt sales in areas with inclement weather.
06-24-2006, 01:44 PM
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I think the cobalt SS with RWD would be a huge success for GM. A tiberon with more hp and RWD would be awesome. I would love an Acura TSX with RWD.
There is a market for these cars. Most people thought the little roadster was dead, after all who would want a convert. in winter, yet the miata's proved them wrong and are a huge success. That's all we need is just one success. If the miata hadn't come, would there be a Z3/Z4, boxster, s2000, or a solstice. I think not. We need just one company to grab it's *****...
There is a market for these cars. Most people thought the little roadster was dead, after all who would want a convert. in winter, yet the miata's proved them wrong and are a huge success. That's all we need is just one success. If the miata hadn't come, would there be a Z3/Z4, boxster, s2000, or a solstice. I think not. We need just one company to grab it's *****...
Last edited by rodrigo67; 06-24-2006 at 01:56 PM.
06-24-2006, 06:32 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Ike
Where are the RWD FI cars??? An affordable coupe or a small sedan with factory FI and a fairly light weight would be such a big hit right now. Every autocrosser, drifter, trackday junkie, and import tuner, and fast import lover would take serious notice if there was such a car on the market right now.
If Mazda was smart they would take their 2.3l and shove it in their Kabura and get that puppy to market ASAP. The same goes for GM and a coupe version of the Sky and Solstice similar to the VX220. Mitsubishi and Chrysler also have an engine they could easily use, they just need to have a car to put it in. I certainly would love to see a modern version of the Starion. Nissan could also bring back the Silvia/240SX with an updated version of the SR20det. It seems like the time is right, someone just needs to do it now.
If Mazda was smart they would take their 2.3l and shove it in their Kabura and get that puppy to market ASAP. The same goes for GM and a coupe version of the Sky and Solstice similar to the VX220. Mitsubishi and Chrysler also have an engine they could easily use, they just need to have a car to put it in. I certainly would love to see a modern version of the Starion. Nissan could also bring back the Silvia/240SX with an updated version of the SR20det. It seems like the time is right, someone just needs to do it now.
They will be out soon.
06-24-2006, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rodrigo67
I think the cobalt SS with RWD would be a huge success for GM. A tiberon with more hp and RWD would be awesome. I would love an Acura TSX with RWD.
There is a market for these cars. Most people thought the little roadster was dead, after all who would want a convert. in winter, yet the miata's proved them wrong and are a huge success. That's all we need is just one success. If the miata hadn't come, would there be a Z3/Z4, boxster, s2000, or a solstice. I think not. We need just one company to grab it's *****...
There is a market for these cars. Most people thought the little roadster was dead, after all who would want a convert. in winter, yet the miata's proved them wrong and are a huge success. That's all we need is just one success. If the miata hadn't come, would there be a Z3/Z4, boxster, s2000, or a solstice. I think not. We need just one company to grab it's *****...
06-25-2006, 01:43 AM
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A fixed hardtop Miata w/ different bumpers and their new DI tubro'd 4-cylinder would make a mighty nice car. It would probably cost less than a 350Z, S2000, etc. and embarass them on the track to boot. Come on, Mazda--that motor belongs in a sports car, not a minivan. If such a beast existed, I probably wouldn't own an 8.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eat/MX5-01.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eptmsmiata.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eat/MX5-01.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eptmsmiata.jpg
06-25-2006, 02:01 AM
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Wow, that concept MS Miata looks awesome! It could do without that vent on the side, but the front end adds that little bit of aggressiveness that I think the regular Miata is lacking. Interesting. Hope it's out by the time my lease is up, haha. (7/07, riiiight)
06-26-2006, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rhawb
Wow, that concept MS Miata looks awesome! It could do without that vent on the side, but the front end adds that little bit of aggressiveness that I think the regular Miata is lacking. Interesting. Hope it's out by the time my lease is up, haha. (7/07, riiiight)
oh ike attachment jsut for you
06-26-2006, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by alfy29
06-26-2006, 04:52 PM
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Oh, A coupe!
Sorry Ike, didn't realize that you were looking for a coupe FI version of Solstice & Sky. Guess I was probably just stating the obvious.
However, I would like to add a bit. Why would you want a MS6 that is RWD for the same price as the current AWD setup? That's just silly. Anyone driven an STI lately? Anyone actually been able to lose traction in it? As long as you have a good center diff control that moves power to one (pref rear) axle during hard accel you aren't losing any power to the superior traction of AWD. Only reason I didn't buy the MS6 was a few grand and boring looks. However, the cheaper models should certainly be RWD.
Automakers are getting to the point know where they are completely overpowering FWD. Take the new Camry. 270 hp in a soft suspension FWD car? You wanna talk about terrifying, press the gas on that in a corner. I had a dialed GTI as prev. vehicle and between stiff suspension & Z's I finally got my mere 180 hp V6 under control on FWD. (BtW, put snow tires on a FWD tight suspension car like that & it is better than any SUV in the snow). So my point is, yes, they are overpowering FWD and should definitely move a lot of popular models over to RWD w/ LSD. Besides, there are very few people who use high HP sedans as their one and only car for inclement weather. If you got the cheese for a 6, you probably have at least an old Subi for ski trips, etc..
Just my 2 cents. Flame away.....
However, I would like to add a bit. Why would you want a MS6 that is RWD for the same price as the current AWD setup? That's just silly. Anyone driven an STI lately? Anyone actually been able to lose traction in it? As long as you have a good center diff control that moves power to one (pref rear) axle during hard accel you aren't losing any power to the superior traction of AWD. Only reason I didn't buy the MS6 was a few grand and boring looks. However, the cheaper models should certainly be RWD.
Automakers are getting to the point know where they are completely overpowering FWD. Take the new Camry. 270 hp in a soft suspension FWD car? You wanna talk about terrifying, press the gas on that in a corner. I had a dialed GTI as prev. vehicle and between stiff suspension & Z's I finally got my mere 180 hp V6 under control on FWD. (BtW, put snow tires on a FWD tight suspension car like that & it is better than any SUV in the snow). So my point is, yes, they are overpowering FWD and should definitely move a lot of popular models over to RWD w/ LSD. Besides, there are very few people who use high HP sedans as their one and only car for inclement weather. If you got the cheese for a 6, you probably have at least an old Subi for ski trips, etc..
Just my 2 cents. Flame away.....
06-27-2006, 12:54 PM
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The thing with the STI and Evo is that they are complicated machines. All those differentials and electronics scare me. The GT-R is going to be even more comlicated with AWS and other crap. A simple RWD setup with SC is more to my liking.
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