Here is the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5236930.stm



When will the spiral end?

 

Toyota #2?
What the hell is wrong with people?

 

Many of the most popular Toyota’s are assembled in the USA, so what’s wrong with Toyota?
Weren’t the big three all doing employee pricing this time last year? Those were some very good deals; of course this year would look bad compared to last.

 

The big 3 will change very soon. Toyota will be one of them.

 

They are the world's most boring cars.

 

Based on sales Boring = $$$$
Anyway if you want style Toyota gives you Lexus & Scion.

 

Even with Lexus and Scion... everything is either slow and soft or doesn't have a MT and soft...

 

End of model year...

All consumer purchasing is down. The economy is slowing. The GM turnaround won't happen in 6 months, it's a couple of years out. Things look promising in my opinion.

 

Yes that Scion really has style, especially the XB

it's f kn ugly.

 

Toyota builds very good cars, no doubt, but I agree (also with Japan8) they don't build anything to lust after (The Lexus IS is close, but the auto punks it out). Their trucks are pretty good but I don't care for trucks and when and if they build the Supra it will be priced too high to care about it (for me that is).

But, the tC is pretty nice...

I worry for Ford more than GM, I think GM is ahead in the game and Ford seems to be falling further and further behind...sadly.

 

The average American doesn't really want to think about what car they are buying.

That is why Chevy and Ford were on top despite screwing their customers back in the 70s and 80s. I dumped Detroit in the 80s when I had cars break up underneath me. And to top it off, I couldn't fix them because the basic technology and manufacturing sucked.

Now the herd think is that Toyota and Honda are the way to go and it will take something significant to get people to think otherwise.

Commercials about how good your cars are in quality will not get buyers back. Big discounts will, but the cars better be good enough to hold them.

They are going to have to whip out 100,000 mile warrantees to prove their stuff too.

Toyotas are pretty plain Jane (no offense to Jane). Honda Accords and Odysseys are getting pretty ugly too.

Personally, we have 2 cars, buy new every 5 years and they better last for 10.

My Dodge Ram didn't last quite 10 years. Our Mazda MPV did.

So keep trying Detroit!

 

Why are the big 3's sales falling off so much? because they make to many cars. Its not complicated. Because of the unions, they can't shrink to meet market demand as fast as they would like. Now, all the recent job cuts wil help, but simply put, the big 3 over produce, they have for decades. its hard to maintain such strong sales numbers when your volumes have to be huge. Remember a 3% sales increase for Mazda is not the same thing as a 3% sales increase for GM. Think about the number of cars GM sells on average.

 

Yeah the Lexus IS is alright. My mother bought one of the IS 300 350 whatever about a month ago. Brand new... it has some pickup but automatic transmission is gay and there is so many ******* buttons and gadgets in that thing it gives me a headache. One of the reasons I like the 8 so much is a simple cockpit and is really fun to drive.

 

I don't know if you guys have ever noticed but every time i see a camry come to a stop at a light or take off from a light, you can see the weight transfer. Literally, the car swings a massive amount.

It also appears as though the camry underside hasn't changed in 10+ years, and has found it's way into many lexus cars now.

Anyways, i hope Ford and GM can get back on top real soon.

 

I just love a box on wheels!!!! LOL

 

I was actually just noticing that the other day. I wonder how it feels if it "looks" that bad?

I think the Accord has turned very ugly. From the rear it is a kinda of starting to remind me of my friend's Neon with that boxy angle on the trunk area. One of the ugliest cars in my opinion. I much prefer that hideous XB (I think it's B for box, LOL) over one.

I can't stand that they are starting to make everything an automatic now! I drove my mom's Tribute to pick her up after surgery (don't want anyong pushing a wheelchair near my baby) since it would be easier for her to get in and out of. It's an automatic and I just hated it the whole time!!! It probably felt worse than it was because I had just been driving my car not more than two hours before. I kept reaching to shift it and smacking my elbow on the center storage "box." I kept jamming my ankle trying to push in a clutch that didn't exist!!! After my digital speedo I couldn't seem to figure out how fast I was going and the whole thing just felt difficult to stear, especially with my arm problem. I suppose that could have been positioning of the steering wheel, though, since I didn't want to change anything around on my mom's vehicle. I was hating it so much I was tempted to turn around, go home, and get Bella. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad if I could have at least shifted while I drove!

I don't know if people are just too lazy to shift or what anymore. I don't buy that stupid "rush hour traffic" excuse with all the stop and go since I get stuck in that pretty much daily now and I do just fine with my clutch. I certainly hope they don't discontinue manual transmission in the future or I will probably never own a new car again. Pretty much the only way I would buy an automatic is if I lose my right arm or my left leg and can't use them for their appropriate functions.

The only automatics I have liked driving where the CX-7 I took for a test drive yesterday waiting for my car to get done. It felt like it had a lot of power and handled well. I wouldn't mind having one of those but I don't know where I would put it. The only other one was a Ferrari F430 from a government impound lot and I am sure a lot of it was "Cool! I'm driving a Ferrari!" because I would have loved it so much more if I could have shifted it.

 

The differentiation between manuals and autos is just as arbitrary as that of a manual with synchros and one without. I could call you lazy because you have synchros that let you get away with not double clutching. There are dozens of other random comparisons that can be made. And as with everything in life there are pros and cons to both.

Don't call people names just because they come down on a different side of an argument.

 

SO SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!! It seems Ford more so than GM, but GM to a certain degree also, seems to be stuck dreaming of the 40-60’s not realizing it’s 2006 and the 70-90’s really soured A LOT of customers that they wont get back with OK cars, OK pricing, and OK quality…it’s going to take a desire to be the best not just a survival attitude or just good enough.

LOL, I’ll be nice but if (I don’t care how much I like it) you don’t build it with the option of stick then you lost me as a customer, PERIOD! I can’t afford the IS, but even if I could I wouldn’t buy it because its stuck with a auto tranny.

I lovezzzz my stickshift!

I hope also, what a shame if we lose both of them….shame!!!!

The RX8 tends to do this to you regardless of the stick vs auto thing, it’s such a pleasure to drive that when I drive something else it feels like I sold my soul to the devil, lol, I can just feel my RX8 shaking it’s hood in disapproval. LOL



This is how I shop (as I did with the RX8), I knew I could only go as high as $25,000 so I then looked into all the cars I could get around that price. G35 (used 4 door), Mustang GT, EVO (used), Scion tC, etc etc and the RX8 beat them out.

When you take this type of buyer and tell them:

You can have a Ford X or GM X sadan for $23,500 or a Japanese sadan X for $24,500 which is quicker, has better quality, better resale value, and gets better fuel economy why in the hell would I buy the Ford or GM product? In the long run I spend a bit more now to get a significantly better car over the life span that I keep it and even when I sell it I get more out of it.

The problem with GM/Ford is that they think they build cars just as good as Honda or Toyota, but quality reports show they don't honestly....but let's say they do (FYI, I think they have really REALLY improved with quality compared to the 90's) the problem is that the public in general still angry over the 70-90's wont give them the time of day to prove it (if true) yet they continue to price their cars as equals with Honda or Toyota when most people disagree.

Meanwhile, they keep losing market share and while improved overall they are still too slow to react and might be too late to repair the relationship with the US customer. They build better products for other markets yet neglect (style, quality, sport, etc) their home market offering us only watered down alternatives to better Japanese products.

How much or how far must they fall before they realize this?

At least Saturn really looks like they understand this, while I'm still not convinced most people will ditch their Honda or Toyota love for a similarly priced American alternative.

Wow...that was alot of talking, most I've done here in FOREVER...I wonder how right or wrong I am? LOL

 

How funny. It all starts out as a intelligent thread and turns into a "I drove an auto and I hate auto trannys" thread.

for a while in the late 70's and early 80's there were more automatic transmission's offered as a standard and the manual was an option. options = $$$
The people that are now in their 30's - 40's either didn't have a manual vheicle to but in thier cost range or didn't have someone to teach them.

Now on the flipside, thier parents learned on a manual trans. an Auto was hot stuff.

Alot of people have fears that prevent them from doing somthing diffrent.

Example used not buy a manual car.
Fear: people will laugh,point, sneer, ect when I stall the car.
Fix: buy an auto. turn key and go.

Stuff like this sways a buyers choice.

 

^personally, I don't hate auto...but I prefer stick shift.

Read the end of my post, I was trying to get back to business....lol

 

the only thing the us automakers have going for them is their trucks.. and all of the jdms have put a shot across the bow already.. even honda.

 

In your opinion. There's plenty of exciting things to come out of Detroit. Name some exciting things to come out of Japan in the next couple of years (not just sports cars). Lemme guess the Camry gets even bigger, the Accord even uglier...etc. The Japanese makes are falling into the lull that nearly killed the big 3. Role reversal coming soon. And the Honda truck is a joke . Particularly if you're going to use it as an actual truck.

 

^lol, I can't disagree with that and yes the Honda Truck-like-thing is doing good, but not only is it not very good looking but it's not really a truck.

BUT, Toyota has one fine truck...(trucks, and Nissan aint to shabby either)

 

My girlfriends parents are getting a Yaris? WTF is that? I know its a Toyota peice, but they are trading in a perfectly fine and pretty nice Grand Prix GTP. I do not understand it lately,

 

Ditto. The Honda truck is a joke. A poser truck. If one doesn't need major hauling capacity you buy a smaller truck, not a car/truck-wannabe.

The Toyota light trucks have been pretty solid though. My father just traded in his '87 with over 200,000 miles for a Tacoma. The 4 cyl. is good for gas mileage, but the '87 with a carb 4cyl was faster and got good gas mileage.

The Toyota full-size trucks may have just finally become competitive with the new generation. The pics and spec I've seen look like this would be a truck to consider. The Nissans... well my father checked them out as well as that new GM light-duty... the both sucked. Quality and all. The Ranger was nixed because my mother thought that they are too "redneck" My friend has a new one... it's hit second. His first was something like an '88 which he treated like hell and it ran until he traded it in last year on the new one.

Toyota and Honda overal... I've been thinking the same thing as therm8... that they are getting complacent like the US big 3 did. They are making fewer and fewer interesting cars... especially Toyota. Honda's just get uglier and the engines... enough with freaking VTEC... more displacement and some FI please. If they keep up this pattern... someone is going to knock them off their pedestal... it's only a matter of time.