8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

As long as they can make it work, who cares? The handling is actually supposed to be pretty decent. Corvettes use leaf springs (admittedly, not in the typical sense) and occasionally get bashed for that, but who cares... it performs. Most people, even those that occasionally or frequently track their cars, are not going to be able to push either car to the limits anyways. While I see what you're saying, real world application is what matters most. I think many would be surprised at how minimal the difference in handling performance is and how much of a difference that power makes.

I'd much rather try to get the handling of the 5.0 closer to the 8 than trying to get the 8's power/acceleration/speed capabilities closer to the 5.0.

quick edit: If someone made a car with a live axel that handled better than the 8 does (stock), would you still say the same thing?

Psylence

Yes. I would still say the same thing, although it would be an impossibility to create such a vehicle and have something street legal.

I guess I just don't care about loads of horsepower, and that is where I am willing to bend/compromise. Were I after a car of this type, I would only consider the Camaro simply because it has a modern suspension.

Ford used to offer IRS as an option on a prior model Mustang. It probably never caught on because its not as good for drag racing... and I heard rumors of the unibody being insufficiently stiff as well.

dillsrotary

Negative ghostrider.

A live rear is best suited for drag racing, which is their main consumer base. That fact that they were able to keep the live rear and also set up a proper suspension for actual race tracks shows how well engineered it is.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

Why would it be illegal to have a car that handles better than the 8 while using a live axel? I don't foresee any legal limitations on the handling abilities of a car...

ASH8

Live Axles are Cheaper to make/develop and install on production, Labor savings also..

Having said that it is a very reliable Horse and Cart type Rear Suspension...Sophisticated it ain't..

Please do not kid yourself that a Mustang with a live axle is a great handler/ ride and comfort because again it just can not be by design...

Axle tramp is the main issue, virtually impossible with an IRS set up

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yep, if it handles it handles. Sure some are more work, more fun, more smooth, etc. But at the end of the day, lap times are lap times. But there is something to be said for the feel and fun factor of a car.

Psylence

That wasn't my point. My point was you would have to cut corners so drastically in order to give that live axle car a serious advantage. Like make it weigh... 1500lbs or something.

Shifter karts can have no suspension at all and will outhandle an RX8. Street legal? No.

77mjd

The 5-7 more mpg doesn't hurt either. You can argue all day about what the 8 brings to the table, but frankly it's 2010 and the gas mileage of the 8 is no longer acceptable and IMO, that factor alone is the main reason sales of this car are dead. When people see you can get 300+ and even 400+ hp cars that get considerably better mileage than the 8, they will pass over the 8 almost unanimously. That's the cold, hard truth.

ASH8

/\ what a load of Crap...go an buy your Mustang, own it for a few years and then report back...

And drive a BRAND new R3 up against a Brand new Mustang...is a fairer test, not a clapped out 04..

webshooter

i used to own a mustang, loved it. Even got to have a 2010 mustang for 2 weeks. their awesome, but i realize my rx8 gets more looks from people in one day than any mustang gets in a year...just way too many mustangs on the road to waste 30k on one imo.

Beefy98

Beyond me too. For the 35 grand they're charging they oughta be locked up.

77mjd

LOL. well, if that's true, the folks at mazda should be shot for charging 33k for an R3. If you think about it, if you were to add a years worth of fuel costs into the equation they'd probably cost about the same.

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

Trust me, its easy to bash the live axle until you try the 2011. Numerous reviewers have said that somehow Ford has found a way to tune it to be almost as good as IRS. They're right. I drove my RX8 to the Ford dealer, talked to the salesman for about 20 minutes, and drove the 5.0. Like I said, it does not hug the road as good as the RX8, and there was a drop in driver feeling. But not nearly as bad as I thought. Its been a few days now but I'd say a 10-12% drop in handling. Is that worth the 100% increase in straight line speed? To me, yes. Again its easy for you to bash it because you haven't tried it. And yeah, I know first hand that the 05-09 Mustangs handled and felt like ****. You could tell it weighed every bit of 3600 lbs and you could tell it had a low tech suspension. Not the case with the 2011. And now the 5.0 is right on par with an M3? BMW's have very sophisticated suspension and all things were equal (the weight, the power, etc) and the live axle was .09 seconds behind the IRS.

People bash vette's in the same way. Pushrods and leafsprings? You can argue how they suck on paper all day, but get in a modern day Corvette and you won't complain about it ever again.

RX8_R3

This is like comparing a sports bike (RX8) with a Harley Davidson (mustang). They are both great in their own right. It all comes down to what you are looking for. I would like a Ferrari: 9000rpm redline IRS, driver oriented cockpit, and a head turner. My velocity red Mica R3 is exactly that. For me, top speed for a daily driver is useless (180kph and you lose your license for two years over here). And the driving feel of an R3 is just not beatable in my opinion. But that is what I'M looking for. If you just want great power and annonimity, then the mustang is right for you...

77mjd

Exactly...just buy what makes you happy. My choices are down to an R3 or the 5.0 Mustang. Honestly, I've always hated American cars and I was looking for any reason at all to hate the new Mustang...couldn't find one. It's a fine car, but I still think nothing on the road beats the looks of the R3. Wish I could have both...that would make my garage very happy.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

People don't seem to be able to grasp the thought of a mustang that can handle. Believe it or not guys, ford finally did it. The RX-8 is one of the best handling cars out there... not a whole lot of cars compare anyways. The mustang is a lot closer than you guys are willing to admit. It might not provide as great of a feel, but performance wise it's going to be a pretty mean competitor.

The sports bike and harley comparison is honestly a much larger difference than current mustangs compared to the 8. Those 2 are built with completely different purposes. You can't reasonably get a harley with expectations to use it like a street bike. Obviously the Mustang isn't going to be up to par on handling like the 8, but it's reasonably close enough for them to be a nice competitor on the track.

We're not talking about cars in a different class. We're not talking about cars with completely different purposes in mind. We're talking about 2 cars with different focus points with almost the same range of purposes. The RX-8 is a great handling car that a moderate amount of people enjoy dragging. The Mustang is a great drag car that a moderate amount of people will enjoy tracking.

While it depends greatly on track design, the mustang was fair competition against the M3 in the video posted earlier in this thread. The E90 M3 pulled a pretty significantly better time on the top gear track than the 8. Admittedly, all of that depends greatly on conditions etc, but even taking that into account, the RX-8 is not out of the mustang's league as a track car unless you stick it on a really compact track.

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

BTW wasn't it a HUGE deal when the RX8 ran the exact same time as the old M3 on Top Gear's test track? But when a Mustang handles as well as the current M3 it goes under the rug because "eh, its still a Mustang". Come one guys, how many people have dismissed our cars simply because they have never driven them and they assume to know so much about the RX8 from what they read online? =/

77mjd

Exactly...the same people on here that aren't giving the new Mustang any credit have obviously not driven one...same goes for people that have always been bashing the 8 because of what the numbers look like on paper. They obviously have never driven an 8. Trust me, I was looking for any reason to hate the new 5.0 but after driving one I couldn't find any reason to hate it. Ford has made HUGE strides with this car and it is impressive.

mysql101

My problem with the mustang is that it's a "me too" car. It's never going to be a unique ride, even if you have a special edition 2020 transformer turbo hyper edition of it. That doesn't make it a bad car, but it's not what some are going to look for, even if it has all the handling in the world.

Spin9k

Kudos to Ford for giving the Mustang some impressive sports car like capabilites. And I really mean that, they're doing some great stuff now-a-days!

Still, I wish now they would finally spend some engineering on the finer things in life... like looks (I find the Mustang both boring and retro, but esp. I detest the 'catfish overbite' front appearance and the huge rear), visibility (hate loooong high hoods). I guess you could say I don't like anything about the 'look' of the car...at all. They plain need to redesign the whole damn thing top to bottom, front to back and turn it into the 21st century. Throw the baby (even though it's long past being young) out with everything else appearance wise...and start over fresh.

Then give it IRS, just for bragging rights ("hey, I bet my turbo supercharged tractor can beat your M3"...just don't cut it for me, even if it is true.) The last bring the interior into the 22nd cetury so I would go "Wow!", not "Please..."

But that's just me.... I'm sure lots of folks just love it the way it is....sad esp. as the price of a fully decked out one is seriously getting up there in price to a whole lot of sophisticated rides.

amo

I love the looks of the car, is very close to the 60's version they were trying to bring back with the retro design. For me I think they could change the interior, but you do have to applaud them that it has changed significantly from older versions. I like the overbite of the hood over the grill, I think it gives it a much more aggressive styling. Put the louvered side covers on the 3/4 window and some nice aftermarket rims on it and you have a great looking car. I think they are on the right track with the cars styling.

My biggest impression of the new 5.0 was the clutch, it was not heavy like I was expecting. I have driven 90's mustangs and their clutch was much heavier than the 5.0s. It is a very fun car to drive be it the V6 or the 5.0, but to get rid of the live axle and put a IRS in it would get rid of the uniqueness of the car. When you can develop a live axle to perform like an IRS you are doing something right. I really enjoyed the car when I drove it, it felt very solid and responsive.

I would say if theres a sports car that needs to be redesigned front to back top to bottom that would be the Vette. That has kept the general shape of the body longer than the Mustang has and the interior, that's a please give me more.

Lodes

I test drove the 5.0 yesterday. They have made huge strides in making the Mustang better. Overall, I don't like it but I have to admit it is quite a good car.

The shifter has nice short-throws much like the RX-8 but I had issues shifting with it.. had to be more forceful than in the RX-8. I guess you just have to get used to it. Otherwise, it had a good feel, you knew you were in gear and such. The clutch was very intuitive. No issues there. I had a bit of a hard time trying to put position myself to do a comfortable heel and toe but it might be that I did not adjust my seat properly for it.

I did not like the steering at all. The weighing of the steering wheel was ok (maybe a bit light). For how much I could push the car with a salesman in the car and my gf, it cornered pretty flat. The steering wheel felt very large, I was really missing a smaller steering wheel with a quicker ratio. You definitely feel the weight of the car when turning, there is no denying it. It felt very lazy in turning, but it still did it in the end.

The interior was ok, maybe our cars are slightly better in interior looks, but the Mustang has Microsoft Sync and that thing is pretty cool. The Mustang seats looked pretty nice as well and they were pretty comfortable. There is also room for people behind surprisingly.

I sat in one with the glass roof and it is very nice. The new mustang with a glass roof would make an awesome cruiser (in which case might as well just go with the v6), but the v8 is super easy to drive nice and slow.

The engine was awesome. Very strong pull down low that continued throughout the RPMs. The power just kept going, and the salesman did not like I was driving it a bit like the RX-8 but it definitely has power in middle-high RPMs. The car I drove had way too long of gearing which made the 412hp seem very bland. This car definitely needs some shorter gearing and I guess you can change the final drive ratio from the factory so that makes up for it.

The ride felt very nice, it did seem a bit harsh when going over speed bumps. The roads were way too smooth around my test-drive so I cannot comment much more. My GF said, she felt pretty comfortable in the back seat.

I did not like the Mustang because it was too big, and it felt much less connected than the RX-8. When I came back to my car, I was enjoying pressing the throttle much more than in the Mustang despite going slower. You don't sense any speed in the Mustang. And I've always felt the RX-8 steering wheel was too wide, but after coming back to it, it felt very nice and small with a nice quick steering ratio.

The Mustang is quite a good car now. I've also driven the current M3 on autocross and at Laguna Seca, and I have to say it behaved similarly. The M3 felt much more precise with much better steering, but that lazy feeling was still there. There is no contest the M3 is better in feel and as an overall package, but the Mustang is there in performance. Ford has achieved quite something, but I guess I am more into Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, Rx-8 type cars. I love precision, lightweight, the feeling of speed and connection to the car which the Mustang did not have apart from the all the engine noise in the cabin

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

+1

Even when I do see the new 5.0's on the road, I only really notice them since I'm a car nut and see the little details. Otherwise, it looks like a Mustang, which are everywhere on the road. Even when I see a black Mustang with a BADASS flaming blue horse paintjob on the sides and a huge intercooler bursting from the front grill, it still doesn't really grab me. My RX8 is 5 years old and still gets eye-fucked every day. I will miss the unique features of the RX8 no matter what I replace it with.

77mjd

LOL...put that quote in the archives! You do raise a good point though. I still think the Rx-8...especially the R3 is one of the best looking cars on the road today. Even though today there seem to be better options out there from a performance standpoint...the looks are still 2nd to none. The looks is what Ill miss the most if I decide to go with the Mustang.

77mjd

I think they did do pretty good on the '60s look...but as usual...why the hell does the car have to be so big? Look at the Mustang they restored at the end of Tokyo Drift...that thing is a lot smaller than the current one, but still looks great.