Renesis_8

Well, if the renesis is maxed out, then its not a bad idea to go with lighter weight. Only way to lower the weight is to make it into a 2 seater. That'd discontinue the RX-8, and I dont see that happening, I have high hopes for a 2nd gen RX-8. It seems the Kabura is the answer. Piston powered light weight sports car.
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Rhawb

Well, if they made the Mazdaspeed the "brutal" version and kept the regular RX8, I think there could be a nice co-existence. I would absolutely LOVE for Mazda to drop some totally mean looking, track-ready RX8 on us and I know plenty of people who would be perfectly happy with the old "cushy" RX8. Especially if they both put down the same HP/TQ numbers - the average joe wouldn't care about a lighter car with better suspension, they'd just see that the original is cheaper while putting down the same "numbers."

Clavius

I second that lol.. Slap on all the Mazdaspeed parts they have plus a few others maybe. Rip out the rear seats and maybe radio components, replace some/most heavy plastic parts with carbon fiber and wham you'd have alot of people happy.

Rhawb

I'd even be happy with leaving the rear doors and taking out the back seats. More storage!

dillsrotary

what do you see as an easier task to accomplish (for arguement sake lets say the next gen rx8 will have 4 seats like ours). easy to increase the HP of the renesis or drop the weight of the whole package. I personally think increasing the hp is easier, i don't believe that it's maxed out.

playdoh43

renesis is maxed out?

i seriously doubt the renesis is maxed out. there is always room to extract more power by a variety of means. If mazda is willing to throw the R&D dollars into the project theres always ways to make more power. Its not a question of whether the renesis is maxed out, its a question of whether its financially feasible to Mazda?

Mazda makes their decision to allocation R&D founds based on their own market research and what they expect in return from these expenses. Mazda feels like they will get better return for their investment by spending their money developing other products such as the MS3,6 and hardtop miata. This is perfectly sound business decision because Mazda is in the business of making money.

Nissan on the other hand enjoy the benefit of platform and parts sharing since a lot of their vheicles use the VQ35 engine. Therefore its much easier for Nissan to invest massive amount of money to improving the VQ35 because they are improving a variety of cars accross the board at the same time. They can spend more R&D dollars improving the FM platform because its shared by the Z, G35 coupe, G35 sedan, M35/45 FX35/45. I notice that a lot of you guys bash the 350z for sharing platform with an SUV. Yet its this very strategy that allows Nissan to improve their products year after year. What the 350Z has turned into today is a very different car from the 2003 350Z and its a result of what a lot of you guys precieve and laugh at as a weakness. Plaftorm and Parts sharing is a very powerful strategy.

With the situation that the RX8 is in today. It is what it is, and its not a bad situation to be in. The Z getting better and better takes nothing away from the RX8 for current owners who already has one. There are exciting products down the line from Mazda such as the kabura.

Clavius

^Its our American emission laws holding it back and possibly other countries (not sure on other countries emission laws). I remember when I was first looking up info on this car and most reviews mentioned a CA reflash and such and missing Hp. I think they had to de-tune the car to make it legal on our shores and maybe others. Sure with aftermarket tuning you could seriously increase Hp but at the risk of not meeting emissions requirements.

playdoh43

engineering and technology has no limit, if they wants to put in the R&D dollars there are always ways to improve the renesis. its just not cost effective in Mazda's view to invest that money.

playdoh43

i restpect and feel you on where youre coming from thouth clavius.

Japan8

I agree with playdoh43. It comes down to business strategy and money.

Considering the amount (lack) of funding that has gone into the Renesis... current owners have pretty much been a real life test bed for a modern ECU controlled side port 13B. And we see that Mazda had some teething issues... mostly on the programming side. They did the same things with the MS6 and the MZR DISI Turbo engine... which they then put into the CX-7 and MS3 (which both use a different ECU than the MS6). Going forward... considering this need for testing and ensuring reliability with the Renesis with a rotary-nervous public... direct injection or supercharger? If you put on both... that's two new things that could go wrong... it makes more sense and is better engineering to do one at a time. With the other programs going on with the rotary... like hybrid and hydrogen... and oil prices and emissions... I'd say that direct injection would come first. Offering to both help emissions and fuel economy with the rotary in the short term and works with more long term R&D projects. FI? It makes you guys happy now, but doesn't do much for where Mazda is likely planning to take things in the future.

Which all sucks. The car has a great chassis and great looks (although a facelift wouldn't hurt), but the lack of torque and even horsepower as well, is the killer for the RX-8. There is a horsepower war going on and all the competition not only has more horsepower, but also has decent low end grunt. That's the kind of stuff that will make the car sell. Not everyone lives in twisties and not everyone tracks their cars. If you can't make a car perform well enough in day-to-day driving... well...

RX26b

It's only powerful for the bottom line of the car company that employs it.

The 350Z today different from the '03? How? It's the same lame car, based off the same truck/boring sedan chassis, using the same engine as the majority of their lineup. That's not a specialized sports car product, and Nissan knows it; yet the moron masses eat that up. Visit any 350Z board and you'll see all the owners patting themselves on the back as if they've purchased the holy grail. Gimme a break.

How good would the RX-8 have been if it shared its platform with say, the Ford Explorer? Or how about if the NSX had been built off the Civic's platform? What if the Gallardo was basically a re-skinned Audi TT? I'd feel gypped. Yet, I see your argument because for over 99% of imbeciles buying cars who wouldn't know a hole in the ground from their you-know-what they could care less.

tjbourgoyne

I'm for lighter materials. Mazda took this into account initially but I would have liked to see them take it to another level.

saturn

Some people want other things than you. You seem to want a car that doesn't share any parts with any other car whereas some people want to be able to beat a hybrid Accord off the line. You get the former and the 350Z owner gets the latter.

Just because people enjoy a car for what it gives them when they sit in it and drive it doesn't make them idiots. Maybe you should put your magazine down for 20 seconds and remember that enjoying a car is about how you feel when you drive it, not what some dude at Car & Driver seems to think about the manufacturing process. You can make a car out of legos and happy thoughts for all I care -- fun is fun.

Razz1

Ja, i probably should have looked harder or waited longer.
A Z06 or C06 would have been much better.

You can put our much more HP in the 8 and pass emmissions.

Just look at the aftermarket. They need to get the CARB certs going.

playdoh43

whatever makes you feel better buddy everyones entittled to their own oppinions

RX26b

No, what makes them an idiot is the fact they can't tell a station wagon's driving dynamics versus a sportscar.

I don't base my opinions on what some loser journalist wrote in their rag. Magazines are good for gauging the performance numbers, and not, as you say, the feel of the car. You're basically making my point for me, because the 350Z lacks any of the feel of the RX-8, yet the people who choose the Nissan and profess it to have superior this-or-that clearly have their heads up their asses and therefore their opinions are null and void.

Renesis_8

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The Nissan platform isnt bad. Try to look at it in opposite way. If the Ford Explorer is based off of the RX-8 platform, it'd be one heck of a SUV!.. If the Civic is based off of NSX, that's great value in a great package...

But yes.. Having a unique platform does make the car.. well unique.. A large portion of the car buyers dont know of the platform sharing either. I am all for unique-ness. Hence why I Love the RENESIS!... + the technology/engineering behind it!.
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playdoh43

unfortunately for everyone one of you here on this forum, theres some counterpart on the 350Z forum calling the rx8 a sports car wannabe 4 door sedan with bodyroll of an suv.

in the end the sensless bashing is the real lame part, im glad most people here and over there arent so insecure

RX26b

I never said it was a bad platform; it's just that because it's designed to fulfill so many different purposes how can they truly achieve the ultimate for their so-called "flagship sportscar"?

If the Explorer and RX-8 were designed off the same chassis, then IMO, the Ford moves up several notches while the 8 gets cheapened and would certainly lose some of its performance characteristics. Same for the NSX vs. Civic...sure the cheap econobox might get a more luxurious feel when driven, but by design the semi-exotic NSX must then move downward it its own performance. It's all about compromise; the less of it there is the more a product can be tailored not to the clueless masses, but to true enthusiasts.

RX26b

The funny thing is that I wouldn't classify the 8 as a sportscar, yet it's more of one than their 2 door 2 seater. How stupidly ironic.

playdoh43

the funny thing is you dont even get the point of my statement, but instead falls into concentrating on the back and forth car bashing proving my point for me. how ironic indeed

RX26b

Yet, in just about any argument someone's right and someone's wrong. Are they not?

Red_X8

I saw we put RX-8 bodykits on Mazdaspeed 3's and everybody shuts the hell up.

CarAndDriver

I think Mazda is going to have to up the ante if it is going to stay in the under 30K sports car niche. Unfortunately, I think they most likely will have to dump the much beloved rotary. Like others have said, the rotary can put out a lot more power if Mazda decides to invest more R&D into it; however, big rotary drawbacks seem to be emissions (rules getting tighter) and fuel economy.

I think Mazda is more likely to do a high output of one of the V6 engines naturally aspirated or turbocharged in the future for any RXs.

Japan8

No.

“only the Sith deal in absolutes”