PaulieWalnuts

I agree that the ingenuity is why the 8 is sluggish in sales. IMO as more people "get it", 8 sales will slowly pick up. With the Z, after the love wears off, sales will plateau or drop.

Regarding the $39K base, if you're referencing my post, that was my theory of what would happen if 4 seats and a turbo were added to a Z with a few options. I realize the current base is $26K.

Hate you? Nah. You make some good points. I'm not bashing the Z. I like the Z but at this point in my life, a 2 seater won't work for me. Using "better" for describing the 8 or Z is purely subjective.

klegg

Actually, sales have exceded mazdas expectations......

zthang

The sale of cars is usually greatest in the first 2 years of production and then level off and slowly decline. I would be very surprised to see the 8 or any other car for that matter have a steady or sharp increase in sales after 2 years or so from its introduction. I think this drop in sales is due to loss of uniqueness, novelty, and the introduction of other cars. I don't think that the 8 has reached it peak sales point yet, but if you think that "after the love wears off, sales will (not) plateau or drop" for the 8 also, then you're a bit naive.

PaulieWalnuts

Absolutely. I'm not saying that 8 sales will climb indefinitely. They must peak or drop at some point. I'm saying that I believe the 8 will take much longer to catch on than the Z and in turn will take longer to hit a plateau than the Z for a similar period from the respective launch dates. Make sense?

Ike

Currently I wouldn't consider any of the new cars out there groundbreaking, it's all just improvements on old designs. However there certainly are some in the last few years that have stood out for one reason or another. The RX-8 for it's uniqueness. the WRX for it's bang for the buck and now the SRT-4 for the same reason. The EVO and STi for having near supercar like performance at a price we can afford. The S2K for being a N/A 2.0 with lots of punch and great handling. The Miata for bringing back the roadster and doing a good job doing so. I would say the most groundbreaking new car on the road is the Prius, even if it's not getting the EPA numbers.

rev-2-9k

When I am in my power band 2nd 3rd and 4th. I pull slightly ahead of a friends 350 in a controlled test.

How do you think the rx-8 posts better track times?

Ike

Actually it usually doesn't post better track times. I have yet to see an 8 beat a G35 or Z around a real track. The G35C beat the RX-8 around the track in C&D, in best motoring, and I believe either tied or beat the RX-8 in Topgear. If that's really the case with your friend he's a horrible driver, or he has an auto. 0-130 times for both cars are 7-9 seconds apart in favor of the Z or G35, that is NOT a drivers race from a roll. That being said the RX-8 pulls close to the same tracktimes because of it's handling...

klegg

I am afraid, but I agree!

Seenitall

The race we saw RX8 win on Speed Channel pitted it against (mainly) the 330i.. 350Z lapped a LOT faster than RX8. Having said that, the 350Z has had much more developmemt time. Still, I cant see RX8 beating 350Z on a racetrack. But hey, what has that got to do with life on the street unless your car is a substitute for your manhood?

Lucino

I agree, a car doesn't make the man.
But, didn't you guys see that race from BestMotoring, Miata vs Type R vs G35c vs RX8 vs STI vs S2k? Know which cars were the last two?

I think a thread like this puts bad name for RX8 owners.

Stop the hate. Z and RX8 are difference species, both have that sports car spirit in them but totally different characteristics. Let's just love what you brought and stop bashing about others rides.

Seenitall

Differnt strokefor different folks.

I'd rather have an RX8 than a 350Z.
I'd rather have a MS Miata than an s2k

Thats MY choice -whats yours?

Lucino

I'd rather have a 350Z than a S2k
I'd rather have a RX8 than a IS300
I'd rather have an Evo than a STI


What about you

MrH

The whole idea of this argument is pitiful. It's all a matter of sacrifices, and that's it. No car is perfect, and never will be, as one car will always do something better then another it the same price range. It depends if you want to go fast in a straight line, all while sacrificying 4-seat practicallity, or if you'd rather handle better, when carrying more people and such. Bringing up things such as gas mileage and such is a pretty pitiful attempt at taking a stab at the RX-8. The Z is no prius either, and if we are taking ownership costs into account, I'm sure the feathering front tires cost a whole lot more than the extra gas the RX-8 consumes compared to the Z that will get an extra MPG or two.

It depends on what you want, and what you are willing to give up. And for me, the RX-8 beats the 350Z hands down.

PS- And to those saying a small engine is a bad thing, just look at the size of the RX-8 and weight of it. It's dwarfed by the VQ powering the Nissan. Consider how much refinement has gone into piston engines so far, and compare that with how much research and developement that has gone into the rotary. What it achieves is astounding, and with further developement, I see it surpassing the piston engine as the engine of choice among sports cars.

BIGGY

Just to clear up for everyone, this is my first post here...I currently drive a 350Z but really liked the look of the RX8 originally more when I was buying a car. I test drove it and realized that the 8 was not for me. My complete personal opinion was that it looked good, but my g/f would look better driving an 8 than I. The Z of course has it's ups and downs as well.

Now any site that relates to cars, bikes, whatever...doesn't like to think of their car in a negative way, but the problem comes in when you start backing arguments with personal opinions. A car can be built from the ground up and be a good car, or it can be a bad car. A car can be tweaked to make it a great car or absolutely nothing special. When an 8 goes by me of course I do a double take...something you don't see much. You don't see the Z much either and of the 2...the 8 definately has 'more' to the exterior design. But that's not showing me that it's engineered any better. We can strip the bodies off the cars and put on our own custom ones if we really want...so the exterior look only gets you so much. If we look at the cars...interior comfort is really all we can compare to a degree. The cars have different purposes though. The Z isn't meant to hold 4 people...it's meant as a fun weekend get away car. It's not designed for snow conditions, for carrying large amounts of groceries or anything like that. It's designed to be a second car for the family or maybe the husbands car to drive back and forth to work. The 8 I think strives to be a little more every day but let's not kid each other. Neither car is the best car out there for our daily lives. These are fun cars and fun cars or other machines, are very personal in taste. I say that the 8 looks very femenine and you say that the Z is pure ugly. And neither one of us is incorrect. See we can sit down and argue about why the Pontiac Aztek looks like crap, why the PT cruiser looks funny, or why the Honda Element is just plain awful, but we can't compare an Element to an Aztek. Because they're just plain different.

There's a few guys on here who are not realistic. And there's a few on the Z forums that are not as well. Each strives and compares to something different. I'll hear guys with a Z compare it to an M3. That's just about the most retarded thing I've ever heard in my life. Just like saying that the speed of the 8 is right there with the Z, it's just plain not. Unfortunately you have to stick with the class you're in, and there's nothing wrong with that. Compare the 8 with maybe a Civic (though not really sure about that), or compare the Z with the S2000. But I'm not going to go crazy in comparing my Z with the Trans Am I used to drive...that would be ignorant. I might say that the durability and the quality are better in the Z than the Trans Am (which they very much are), but I'm not going to convince myself that I can hang with a Tranny from the light.

The point is that no matter what car you drive, there's always a better one out there. Someone wrote a post saying "well here's good cars, but this one is 10k more than the 8, and the M3 is already going past the 40k range." Well that's true, but it can also be argued that the M3 is better than the 8 and the Z combined. Not to mention that price tag doesn't apply to everyone. Be honest here...if you had let's say $1 million that you got off a scratch and win ticket (play along with me). And you were looking for a new car, would the 8 REALLY be your top choice? I don't think so. Hell the Z wouldn't even fall into my top 10! You would never even dream of the 8 after riding in an AMG Mercedes, and M5, Porche, you name it! It's all in what you can afford. Go to people who live in a smaller house than yours and call it a piece of **** compared to yours and start jotting numbers off based on size and land area and it's not a valid argument! So let's agree on this...is the 8 a well designed car for what it is? Absolutely, I can't argue with that even though it wasn't the car for me. Is the Z a good car? I would have to say yes...could the Z use some improvements? Of course, but it's not BAD to begin with. Fixing a bumper here or an air sensor there is not uncommon for the first year or two that a car is out there. Even the new line of the M3's from a couple years ago had a major engine recall, but does that make it a bad car, or worse than some other car? I don't think so.

mysql101

The 8 would have been in my top 10 even if I had a million dollars to buy cars with.

BIGGY

I don't doubt that for a few people it is. But I think a vast majority would stick with what they can afford. I can afford a Z, so right now it's about the best thing that happened to me. However it was real painful to admit to myself that the Trans Am I had (2000), was just plain not a good car other than for straight line acceleration. It's hard to admit when there's something better out there, but there is in both of our cases. Even for the same price. I can argue all day about the Accord or Camry being better than both of our cars...are they? Maybe their durability IS better or the quality is better too. After all, Camry is rated #1? But they're different so we can't really argue that. One is right for you and one is right for someone else.

klegg

learn how to read, I started the thread by saying the Z is a real nice car.....may I suggest "the idiots guide to reading"?

PaulieWalnuts

Yeech. Did you really find it painful to move away from a Trans Am to a 350Z? :D

Seenitall

Nah- READING FOR DUMMIES is much better.

klegg

you know, that post was what I was talking about, the highly trollish Z owners.

The point to my thread is that the Z is a fine car, it is not an innovative car... but the idiots have to jump in a start bad mouthing the 8.........

BIGGY

Not at all. I did love the power though. I could beat out some of the modified Eclipses and all, but I'd rather have a better quality car that's a bit slower. I think that if/when they refine the Z it will definately be a great car. It could use to drop a few pounds which I know they can do, as well as it really should come with a factory turbo.

zthang

The trolls are here because you asked them to come. This thread is really a Z bashing thread in disguise. I read the first couple of pages and I got the feeling that the whole purpose of the thread was to say "The 8 is more innovative than the Z...therefore it is better". You may not have intended it to come off that way, but from a non RX8 biased viewpoint it could have been interpreted that way. I'm not trying to knock you guys down or anything, Im just giving my opinion on why the "trolls" are here and why I posted to begin with.

Overport

Yes they are, i went to the z dealer here and had the 6-speed track model listed at $39,000 plus tax....completely insane. Then i went across the street to CARMAX and had the same track model for $29,650! NO LIE!

BIGGY

That model is all done up with brakes, shocks, rims, and so on. Not the standard track model I believe.

Lucino

Thanks for the suggestion, if you read what you wrote, you started with " I have never understood why we get so many nasty Z trolls...", smart ***.