klegg

I have never understood why we get so many nasty Z trolls, but I had a revelation today.

The Z is good, real good, using current existing tech...nothing new or innovative, just the brute force approach...but it works.

What sets the trolls off is the new ideas and neat innovations in the 8....the way that Mazdas design team really came up with new and exciting solutions...at a attractive price. And without the serious problems that the Z has...(I do not consider the mpg or the HP a serious problem in a sports car, and the flash's have improved it quit a bit. Plus, mazda did more to make it right then any other car company does in this situation....Just look at how long it took nissan to fix the radio issue, not to mention the front end issue that is still not fixed!)


The 8 is elegant in a design sense....any fool can put a huge engine in a car and have it go fast....it takes genius to do what Mazda did with the 8...perhaps the most unique mass produced car on the road. And that it what sets the troll off about our car.

Flame suit on.

mysql101

I actually like the Z, but it's not practical for me.

One of the major selling points of the 8 is that they built it from the bottom up. The Z is made up of preexisting sedan parts making it heavier than it should be.

I think they're overcharging for it, to be honest.

klegg

Actually, I like the G35 a lot...the Z is starting to look old to me, never liked its dash..

clayne

Let's not forget where the 8 got it's main inspiration from: the FD.

Overport

Both designs are sexy....very sleek. On the Z forums though they hate on the RX-8 by saying the wheel arches, fender flares, whatever you want to call them, make it look feminine! This is where i think z owners have a little to much pride and really might just be a little jealous because they dont want to admit the RX-8 has better or shapier looks.

rx-7~rx-8

RX-8 IS MUCH NICER IN BUILD QUALITY AND INNOVATION... AND ITS SO DAMN LIGHT NIMBLE IS WHAT MAKES IT SO DAMN FUN TO DRIVE...

350Z I NEVER DROVE NUT I WOULD LOVE TOO... THE INTERIOR WILL GET A REDESIGN.... SO WE'LL SEE... THE BODY LOOKS SO DAMN PLAIN... I SAW ONE TODAY.. ONLY LOOKED ONCE... WHERE AS THE RX-8 YOU LOOK LIKE 20 TIMES AND ALMOST GET IN A WRECK... LOL...

Kurt Bob

Yikes! I can't see how a 350Z owner could criticize any design features of the RX-8. The ugly door handles of the 350Z are enough to turn me off. They remind me of the security tags you see on expensive clothing in the store (you just want to rip them off). And how about the rear strut tower bar that takes up precious luggage room. And...

ml2316

the rx8 is underpowered and gets very poor mileage. i don't think z owners feel threatened by anything except possibly the styling of the 8 and probably its interior quality (which isn't innovative, just nice). the suicide doors aren't really innovative, just rare. any fool can put a small engine in a car that gets horrible gas mileage and doesn't go fast.

actually no, it might take some innovation to get really poor mileage out of a small engine.

rev-2-9k

^^^^^^^^^

Yet somehow I can hang with you in every performance category while carting around 3 friends.

Come on Nissan makes good cars, I have owned 3, but quit it with the hate.

RotorMotor04

Well, if the 8 is underpowered, why can I keep up with a stock Z any day of the week, and if it is an auto, forget about it.

Any car that runs mid 14's stock with an engine less than a half the size of a Z is harldy underpowered

Ike

You're not keeping up with a Z, get a freaking grip! Both the 8 and Z are nice cars, but nothing that's groundbreaking. You guys seem to be more hung up on who has a better interior or who's car looks more like a bar of soap than anything. Considering that I'm happy I don't drive either the Z or the RX-8.

Why don't you see how an AT RX-8 does against an AT Z? For a bunch of supposed enthusiasts that claim to not care about straigtline speed some of you sure manage to come off sounding like a bunch of meatheads that think they can dust off every car out there at a stoplight.

shade

god, i dont know how anyone can like the Z its exterior is so plain and it seems like they tried to give it a too much futuristic look, same with the interior man, its ugly, but i do envy its hp but one advantage the rx8 has is that its much lighter so the same 100 hp for a Z would do much better on an 8

pelucidor

Anybody here read Sports Car International? Easily the best car mag out there. Last year the editor wrote the best article I've ever seen on the folly of test numbers - easy to measure but often telling you very little about the vehicle. Anyway they have an occasional writer called Dave Coleman, their tech editor, who is brilliant. He is an absolute rally nut and races regularly (does badly, always in beaters) and loves the EVO - he also writes for Sports Compact Car. Last year he wrote a beautiful piece in praise of the rotary engine - he really understands where it came from and where it is going. Two months ago he wrote an editorial on future engine technologies when the oil starts to run out and who will first segue into those new technologies. I don't remember the article but I remember one sentence from it:

"There is one company out there who will try this first. Mazda will do it. Mazda will do anything."


Before I had a G35, before I had an RX-8, I made a comment much like Klegg did. Any modern top tier car company can build a car like a 350Z/G35/330i/IS300/A4/TL etc. They take ideas and parts that have been around for years or decades and tweak a bit here, add a bit there, tune and test it, and voila they have a fast, good handling, good looking and usually heavy car. But only Mazda could build the RX-8 because only Mazda makes the centerpiece that makes everything else possible - the rotary engine. Out of all the hundreds of cars I've driven the RX-8 made the most emotional impact. I honestly believed it was created by a company that put their heart and soul and passion into their flagship product, whose engineers worked nights and weekends in secret without pay to make it happen against all odds. The car and the company truly deserve to suceed - who else would even think of making a compromised sports car with 4 doors and 4 seats for broader appeal, and who else would actually try to build it as more than just a concept. It is truly the most unique mass produced car on the road.

ml2316

the rx8 is SLOOOOWWWWW(er). but it looks really nice. imo. and the engine IS really small. that's always... uh, different.

ml2316

the exterior of the z is *plain*? interesting observation.

PaulieWalnuts

Klegg's point is the 8 is superior in engineering ingenuity compared to the Z, not which one is faster. In most situations the Z is faster, period. And I'm not sure if engineering is why Z trolls jab the 8. I don't think they take the 8 seriously because it's not in the same league as a Z. AND THEY'RE RIGHT. It's not meant to be! Compare the Z to the RX-7 if/when it comes out and you'll see more respect from Z people. The biggest problem when comparing the 8 to something is finding a similar car to compare it to. Mazda created a new category with the 8.

ml2316

good post. z owners are the same way though, they try to convince themselves the z can hang with an evo or an sti. which is ridiculous. i was responding to all the 8 owners who are so defensive about the *performance* of the car. which they shouldn't be. the car is versatile. you can't have everything for $30k. i wouldn't say the 8 has superior engineering (superior engineering would have produced more performance for the same or better fuel efficiency as other cars in its class), but it is a more well-rounded car, in general, not performance-wise.

PaulieWalnuts

You missed one word that makes a big difference. Engineering ingenuity.

ml2316

no, i don't feel the rx8 has superior engineering ingenuity. at least not in any objective sense or any sense that is relevant to how i use a car. the suicide doors are cool, but not ingenious. and rotaries have been around for awhile too. explain what you mean if you think i'm misinterpreting your use of that word.

PaulieWalnuts

While few engineering tasks are easy, I haven't seen any unique engineering in the Z. It's a fairly standard 2 door sports car that borrows most of its platform from other cars.

With the 8, there's plenty.

They redesigned the rotary to make almost as much horsepower as the previous twin turbo while also meeting new emissions standards. Keep in mind that when Mazda engineers were originally working on it they were told by some of the world's most brilliant minds that it was impossible to seal a triangle and they were wasting their time. The fact that the engine even exists is a work of genius.

The process by which the body is welded is totally new for which Mazda received a patent. The pieces are basically ground together at high speed until they meld. This is stronger and causes less metal fatigue than a weld.

Electric, not hydraulic, power steering?

Carbon fiber driveshart?

Frame backbone?

Pillarless four door?

And much more on a $26K car that doesn’t steal parts from the parts bin.

There really isn't anything conventional about this car. And when you say the suicide doors are “cool”, not ingenious, I bet it took an extraordinary amount of engineering to get all of the individual requirements of this car to work as a whole. Slapping a different body on a sedan and calling it a Z cannot be as difficult as the level of engineering and ingenuity that went into the 8.

rev-2-9k

As in I can go 155 MPH slow.

As in from a rolling start I am quicker than a Z.

ml2316

unconventional design and superior ingenuity are not the same thing. you can cite design elements and engineering approaches. but the car does not really *do* anything better than any of its competitors as a result of any innovation. the choice to do things differently must translate to some kind of real world result or performance that can be used to measure the technical merit of the design. i mean the fact that so much effort was made to design a rotary that meets emissions and generates *competitive* horsepower may just be indication the rotary is a flawed technology to begin with. i mean it's great there's an electric steering system and carbon fiber driveshaft, but if the end result does not yield *better* performance or *better* fuel efficiency or *better* anything else that i care about as a car owner, then it doesn't really improve on any conventional technologies in any truly significant way, and i can't give it credit for superior ingenuity.

Jedith

Um...the 8 DOES have superior engineering ingenuity...and your proving my point. The whole fact that 8 can compete with the Z is amazing. It has a smaller engine, 4 doors, and 4 seats. It puts out less horsepower and torque than a 350z and the Z beats it by an incredibly small margin. Damn man, I do not see how you can seriously say that 8 is "slooooooooooooooooooow(er)" than a Z. The 8 is truly a remarkeable car. Your just trying to defend your car, and thats expected. But then again...the 8 beats the Z in most of the car magazines anyway...:D

ml2316

but it isn't more efficient or a better performer. regardless of the difficulty factor of its particular type of design, if the car doesn't do anything in the real world better, then it isn't superior. if somebody builds a car out of toothpics that makes 100hp, the engineering difficulty factor to do so would be enormous but that doesn't make it a superior car.

Spin9k

Your one-headedness is blinding your reasoning.

Try taking three friends and some luggage on a trip with your Z, flying through some tight bends with an S2000 or Z, getting on the track and going 130 or so in a spirited fun run, then ending the day in a far away place by going off to dinner and wine to discuss the day's fun, before dropping them home.

If that isn't doing something better IN THE REAL WORLD what is?

You need to get you brain around the NEW REALITY the 8 provides. Your thinking is IN SPECIFICATIONS ONLY-- soooooooo conventional!