Ike

Yeah, that's why the MS6 forum is riddled with posts about powerloss and it's a sticky. You're the fool if you think any turbocharged car isn't going to lose power when temps get over 100 degrees. I wasn't trolling the MS6 boards, I was considering buying one when I was ready to trade in my WRX. Then I realized the powerloss MANY MS6 owners were experiencing, the poor intercooler design, and that is was too heavy for its own good. To top it all off it couldn't even finish better than 4th in the two major mag comparos. One of which where it was trounced by "the lawnmower propelled Legacy".

Ike

Because it's sitting on top of a hot engine. The design in the Subaru is at least fed fresh air by the hoodscoop.

RX8-79

Yeah, and I guess every MS6 owner in the US and Canada and everywhere else theyre sold posts on that board. And I guess every one of those MS6's except ours has experienced powerloss. Wake up, idiot; I know it's hard for small minds to grasp, but, there's a BIG world outside of internet forums.

Again, to a closed and small mind, mag comparos are biblical. Hold onto to those, if it makes you feel better, kiddo. And keep overlooking that the MS6 has several victories in head-to-head mag comparos over the boring looking lawnmower, AND it outhandled and outstopped it, despite the weight diff. Ouch, for the lawnmower.

RX8-79

And an already funky designed car is made worse by a two-dollar hood scoop.

Ike

You sure are an angry little fella.

saturn

I love lamp.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

and the 6 is fed air through the ducting under the hood going directly to the grill, roughly the same size opening as the soobie and I assume the same air, really the only difference might be the stock size of the intercooler if anything, and people have been doing h mounts for years, so they can't be all that bad.

Japan8

The MS6 hood is both heavy and feeds in less air that a traditional hood scoop. Maybe at highway speeds there is less of a difference, but at city speeds, I am willing to bet that there is a clear difference. Plus a closed hood helps to trap heat under the hood.

The issue isn't just that it has a top-mount intercooler... it's the cooling duct design addition to this AND the car running pretty high boost.

The MS6 will be lucky if there is an aftermarket beyond intake, exhaust, suspension and boost controller. Mazdas have never had aftermarket ECU flash capability and even if it does finally come out for the MS6... it's going to be some wait. The Legacy GT has a large aftermarket... partly thanks to it sharing its long block with the STi. Hitting 300hp in a Legacy GT is relatively easy and cheap.

Ike

I bet someone makes an FMIC for it

snizzle

I'm hungry. I love eat.

Japan8

Aftermarket FMIC seem to have a tendency of mixed results... examples being the Imprezza, Legacy GT and VW GTI/Audi A3. In some of these cases it has caused reliability problems.

rx8wannahave

Poor guy, had to get rid of his 8...

I hope the best for you and your MS6. I was away from my 8 for about 10 days this past vacation and it kills me everytime.

I LOVE MY 8!!!!!!

Ike

I've never heard of any problems with FMICs on any Subaru unless you're putting it on an otherwise stock car.

swiftnet

lamp - Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP/Perl
eat...

Japan8

Honestly... I don't remember if it was Subarus, VWs or which make. But I seriously do think it was on the LegacyGT forum where there were some comments about it. But like I said... I could be remembering wrong.

crossbow

Few notes..

http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=5055

Here's a link to the powerloss issue. It's be resolved by Mazda, though a few owners have reported both that "Car feels faster" and "car feels slower" after the flash.

Make sure to use the highest octane gas you can get in the MS6. 94 if you can snag it, 100 if you want some fun...if you're stuck with 91, I'm sorry. The pcm is overly knock sensitive and will go bonkers if you get any sort of knock, even if its false (thus the original power loss issue).

If you recently bought the car, it should already have this PCM revision...if not, make an appointment with your dealership, and stop getting info from the sales or service tech's, go straight to the service manager.

As for heatsoak issues...its pretty apparent just in short drives around town. On the dyno, the car can lose nearly 30 ft/lbs of torque, and anywhere from 10-20 whp in just 3 runs. Here's one owners example of heatsoak in action. (Keep in mind this is with the hood up, and a 40 hp fan blowing in)



The issue isn't the ducting as much as the location of the intercooler. On the sti/legacy, there is a space under the intercooler to allow the air to flow through and out...on the MS6, the intercooler sits directly on the engine, with about an inch or so of clearance.



The problem is big enough that there are a variety of companies working on FMIC's for the vehicle...though confounded a bit by Mazda welding the front bumper to the car, instead of bolting it on.

There are intakes, a single DP, and a variety of exhausts available for the car thus far. Suspension mods are practically non existent, other then relabeled parts from the v6 Mazda 6. (ie not proper rates for the MS6). Stock air/fuel ratio looks like a train wreck, so there is plenty of room for tuning (if it ever becomes available).



Upper rpm performance (past 5500 rpm) is limited by the Hitachi-Warner K04 single-scroll turbocharger's inability to provide sufficent CFM to meet the engines demands. Either a hybrid, or replacement turbo will be necessary to make the upper rpm band useful. (If you own one, you know its practically useless to shift after 5700...the last 1000 or so rpm is just the turbine blowing hot air)

K04 Compressor Map



There is an 07 Model coming out, and some dealers are discounting the sports to the 22k range. (It's a really good deal at 22k!) Make sure if you want one, to please wait, or shop around, buying without knowing about the 07 means you probably overpaid a good 3-4k =/.

Hmm what else is left...weakpoints in the car? Clutch, then differential mounts, then differential. Don't launch this thing repeatedly, or you'll be in for one nasty surprise. I'd recommend against buying this car as a track/daily driver, just from the rarity of some of the components. Some owners have waited weeks for parts that are relatively common on other cars.

The MS6 is pretty much the best bargain multi-purpose daily driver on the market right now.

That should cover about everything.

snizzle

Very nice informative post. I learned a lot about the MS6. I figured the aftermarket would be strong for this car.... especially since the motor won't be exclusive to the 6. Guess it's still relatively early.

Ike

The MS6 fanbois just got Crossbowned!

Stavesacre21

Wow...i'd say crossbow just put all the here-say BS to rest in a mighty hurry.

Bravo with the facts!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Oh, Ike! You mean that when you go off on one of your lengthy trolling tyrades that no one who would even care about such things ever reads, you actually type it in the little response box at the bottom of the page?

How cute!

I've got three words for you - notepad.

TragicallyHip

Congrats on the car UK BLACK, too bad you had problems with your 8. My father works at Mazda and actually had an MS6 for a demo for quite a while. Was a great car, quite fun to drive after getting used to it. (Strange after driving the 8, 1st gear feels like it lasts all of .5 seconds.)

I don't see why some big debate/argument has to hi-jack every thread on here... Pretty much takes the fun out of even reading the posts (Yeah i'm a newb so I shouldn't be complaining, but honestly...)

Anyways, good luck with your 6 and hopefully you'll enjoy it for years to come!

Ike

I've got five words for you - I'm sorry your vagina hurts.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Musta been tha roofies.
Anyway, that's eight words by my count...

VikingDJ

Ah, what would a thread be without a little battle. I'm actually pursuing a possible replacement for my STi as a daily commuter beater, since the bumper to bumper is just about finished. I am actually looking into a MS6, not to buy but to lease. I found just one car I can fully commit to, but it's the S2000, not the STI. They have a damn good 2 year lease deal going on right now with the MS6 Sport ($269 a month for 24 months, $2544 due at lease signing), which is actually not a bad deal at all. Not sure if Mazda will give me 10 grand back, and take my STI for this two year lease straight up, but I may pursue it. I don't really care about the little bugs with the MS6 because I'd simply milk that baby up to 24k miles, get some good use out of my s2k without it being a garage queen (which I hate because I buy cars to drive, not to admire), and then I can use that 10 grand to help pay off my S2000. By the time the 2 year lease is up on the MS6, I will flat out own the S2000, and can just hand them that car back without worries, and move onto my next daily.

The only thing is that they have to swap out the summer radials with all seasons, because this will be my 2 year beater daily. Just an idea, but I'm starting to shrug at the future maintanence costs this STI will be incurring soon, as Brakes are running low, and it appears the rear struts are already saying " replace me". I have until August 31st to make up my mind, but I'm just not sure I'm ready to start putting money into this sti, because the trade in value is still high, and it might be the perfect time to make a change, and give myself another car to drive and enjoy. I simply love swapping cars. I don't care about the bugs with the MS6, because I had to deal with plenty of them on my RX8, and it's much more stressful dealing with issues when you own a car then when leasing. Let me know how that MS6 works out for you.

snizzle

Assuming you use firefox....

If you type out a reply only to get a DB error.... hit back. Whatever you typed out will still be there. It's flippin' sweet!