Japan8

And the Z looks fat and bloated. I used to love Nissan until Gon and Renault took over... then all their design turn butass ugly.

The intereior... just bad deisgn. A kid with LegodJ

Umm... TWO SEATER!!!

If we want to have a straight line performance conversation, I'll just wait for the 2005 Mustang GT. It'll handle better than in the past... may even run decently against the base Z. It'll kill a Z in straight line performance.

I've got a wife and in two years kids to worry about. So the conversation ended with "two seater" for me. But it's different strokes for different folks.

VRRocket

I drove two z's and felt like I'd have blood in my urine after driving them. More torque, more "instant power" than the 8, but also a bit less curb appeal in my opinion. The 8 is smoother riding and nearly as fast, and you don't need an engine lift and two friends to put two sets of clubs in. Plus the back seat....need I say more?

roboracer

i was in love with the Z's looks before i test drove both cars...after i test drove the 8 and the Z, i fell in love with the 8's handling...also, the 8's clutch is so much easier to drive, since i'm used to driving hydrolic clutch instead of the cable clutch on the Zs'...another plus with the 8 is it's beautiful interior, the Z's orange interior lights are just horrendous...and last but not least, the 8's back seat will come in handy when it comes to picking up the honies..can anybody say "manage a trois"?? :D

RPIRX-8

I'll go ahead and agree with the "honies" comment from roboracer.

Plus, I personally like something different. It doesn't impress me that you can make 280hp from a 3.5 liter v6. It does impress me that you can make 238hp from an engine that might be the same size (or smaller) than the VVTL-i 4 that was in my old Celica GT-S. That is something special. Looks are great, but the body is still plastic when you get down to it. The engine is the soul of the car. And I feel more "soulful" that the RX-8 is the only car in Mazda's lineup (or anybody's lineup for that matter) with a rotary. How many cars in Nissan's lineup have the VQ series V6?

rx8miami

let's just face it. the rx8 is a unique vehicle and does not deserve to be compared to the rsx. for that matter not even the z. rotart power and roadster minded styling vs. a heavy v6 which has less room in the rear? No question in my view. Oh and by the way I will get back to you on c&d stats on your maxima bein gfaster than the 8. Sounds to close for me to just say your wrong but I'm gonna check it out.

rx8miami

let's just face it. the rx8 is a unique vehicle and does not deserve to be compared to the rsx. for that matter not even the z. rotart power and roadster minded styling vs. a heavy v6 which has less room in the rear? No question in my view. Oh and by the way I will get back to you on c&d stats on your maxima bein gfaster than the 8. Sounds to close for me to just say your wrong but I'm gonna check it out.

rx8miami

this one is for cwerdna
(the 8 is slower than my non-sports car Maxima).
just checked my favorite mag r&t and guess what?
Nissan Maxima 2003 265 hp v6 0to 60 time is a whoping 6.5 sec.
and it's blazine quarter mile time is 15 sec.
top end 140mph
I am having trouble finding where your maxima outperforms the 8.
have nos in it?
don't know about your statement, all I can say is have facts before you make a staement like that.

cwerdna

Wrongo. Here we go again w/bench racing. First off, the 02-03 Maxima is 255 hp. The 04s gained some weight w/redsign but have 265 hp. I should amend my statement a little. I'm positive my 2K2 Max auto would beat a stock RX-8 auto in the 1/4. I'm pretty positive that a manual 2K2-2K3 Max would beat a manual RX-8 1/4.

I've personally achieved at 14.908 in the 1/4 mile on my stock automatic 02 Maxima. The best legit 1/4 mile I've seen w/a stock 2K2-2K3 Maxima is 14.6. I remember seeing people w/stock manual 2K2-2K3s that have run around 14.2 (that's faster than any stock RX-8 that I know of).

Heck, even Motortrend w/a stickshift 5-speed V6 2K2 Altima did a 14.4 in the 1/4 mile. The Altima weight is almost identical the Maxima.

Here's Motorweek's result w/an Alitima http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2105.shtml . Here's my timeslip http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=151189 . I'll post up those of the others I mention when I get a chance.

Japan8

As a former (pre-POS Renault) Nissan lover, and having lusted after a Maxima in '99... I can appreciate the package. That is a quick car and was quite sharp... back in the day. But now... like everything else Nissan makes, Renault has touched it and turned it all to ****. The '00 model Maxima was like "huh?" but I still could have driven it. HOwever, the current one... what is up with that front grill? What's with the overal shape of the car. I'm sorry... the Imprezza looks better and the STi is faster. Space? Well the new Legacy (not out in the US yet) is better looking than both the Imprezza and the Maxima, AND it'll kick the Maxima's ***.

Let's bring this back to the 8... I don't care (and most people on this board) don't care if you can out drag an 8 in the 1/4 mile. That's not why people here bought. They bought it for its LOOKS (which the current Maxima wish it had), it's HANDLING (can you Maixuma pull .8 or so g? How about .9-1.0g with mods... not coilovers?), and the smoothness, 9k redline and uniqueness of the rotary engine. Revisiting performance... add a CZ ECU and midpipe to the 8 and try those tests again... be a different story then....

So go ahead... troll some more about how the Maxima is faster in the 1/4. This is the same conversation as the 350Z vs RX-8. Sorry no one cares.

cwerdna

I'm not trying to be a troll here, but yes, it's obvious that the 8 would blow away the Maxima in handling. I never stated anything to the contrary. There's 0 doubt in my mind. The 5th gen Maximas are pretty decent looking for a 4 door sedan other than the tail. I don't like the 6th gen fronts though.

As I stated before, I place a greater emphasis on power and when cheaper non-sports cars can meet or exceed the RX-8 in acceleration... hmm....

Japan8

Oh... I see. If that's the case, sorry for the flambe.

REALLY, the 8 isn't comparable to the the Maxima... it's apples and oranges, but for someone like me... planning on needing the extra seats and easy access in the next 2 years... they become real comparable. One reason why, although I love the '05 'Stang... I likely will buy an 8 over it. I need more room and doors.

pgtr

Good question - both are great cars I'm sure.

I would tend towards teh 8 over the Z for basically teh reasons you also cite like rear seat, styling & interior. I think a lot of people forget that the majority of the time you're enjoying the car it's from INSIDE A base 8 comes w/ LSD - amazingly enough a base Z does not. I think the Z is a bit goofy but OK on styling compared to the 8 which is pretty sharp. But the Z does provide a good solid engine w/ sufficient torque for fun to boot. Someone mentioned earlier about you might be disappointed w/ the lack of torque compared to a Vette - I think that's fair point. People can make all the excuses they want for the lack of torque - torque is just FUN on a street driven vehicle! Last I checked there is no unwritten law that says a sports car can't have torque.

As for your 2K Vette lease - why not look at an 04 C5? They are practically giving them away or soon will be. There are advertised prices now starting to dip into 5 figures OFF MSRP! Hmmmmm. From what I can tell the build quality is also outstanding on Corvettes and the gas mileage is far far better on the Corvette - they are rated at 28 and typically folks report 32+ mpg on late C5s. For the short term until the C6 gets intro'd, a new C5 is worth considering at such bargain prices unless a rear seat is an absolute must. - just a thought...

=========

randyrx8: 17mpg HWY?! - THe C5 will get a solid 28 and I've heard many report 30+! Heck I've got a 30 yr old Chevy small block V8 that will get 15-17 mpg if I drive it conservatively! Anyone that says you are "innaccurate" is is probably trolling - their mileage may vary but that hardly invalidates your observed mileage.

GiN

But aren't the MSRP's of the 04 base models pretty much the same, with the RX-8 just a few hundred less? (based on edmunds.com quotes)

The Maxima weighs in at roughly 400lbs more than the RX-8.
The VQ35 motor generates (on paper at least) about 30 more horsepower and 100ft-lbs more torque at the crank, at lower rpm.
(based on nissan and mazda website information)

Now let's consider 1/4 mile times with the assumption that there are very few of us here that bought our cars strictly for quarter-mile runs. Let's also consider how there are very few of us here that do 0-60mph all-out runs more than a couple of times a day.

With that in mind, is the Maxima's supposed 0.X second gain in these categories so important?

Let's beat this to death and argue about how every car that comes with a motor that has 2.69 times the combustion volume of the Renesis is superior to the RX-8 by a few tenths of a second.

BTW my 600cc Honda outperforms the Maxima AND the RX-8 in 0-60, 0-140, 1/8 mile, 1/4th mile, etc.etc.etc.

Does anyone care?

cwerdna

My 02 Maxima GXE cost me $23.4K + tax and license new when I bought it. It was about $25.5K out the door w/everything. My Maxima's curb weight is 3218 lbs. which makes it 165 lbs heavier than an automatic 8 w/"popular options". With the 6th gen Maxes, they ditched the equivalent of the GXE and bumped up the prices somewhat. Perhaps a good current comparo would be a Altima 3.5 SE due to bump up.

randyrx8

But even at $5k off the c5 is $45K vs $30K. for me thats a different price catagory. Probably a much better car for sure but still a differnt price catagory.

I would still say that mileage is my biggest complaint about the car. I am sick of hearing you didnt buy this car for the mileage, The fact that most people are getting 20-40% less highway milage than advertised is a problem. While I understand that Mazda does not preform the tests. At best they know they are not accurate for thier rotary engine cars, at worst they send Special cars tyo be tested.

If milage is not a concern for this car segment, why doesnt mazda tell prospective customers that the EPA numbers on the RX-8 are not representative of what you will get. Then at least they would have customers that are not surprised.

I suspect that if they told customers that, they would loose at least 25% of thier sales.

RPIRX-8

I'm not so convinced that once we get some people with 20-30 thousand miles on their 8, we won't see the EPA stated numbers. I know when I bought my 8 I was getting like 13-15 mpg (worst tank was 10, but the redline and I were very close at that time). Now I have 12687 miles on my car, and my last tank I got 19.76mpg with prob 70% highway, 30% city driving. I personally think the jury is still out on the gas mileage issue. I am also curious to see if the new 8s off the lot (I am assuming they will come from the factory with the "L" or "M" flash) will have better overall mileage earlier in the car's life.

Japan8

Why do you think they'd loose 25% of their sales? how many Americans drive big block V8 SUV's? Even the V6 models have bad gas mileage. I think people would care a lot less than you believe. I think the problem here is that people feel deceived...

rx8miami

ok guyy we are are guilty of this but we are way off the subject, 350 or 8?
350 narrowly beats it in 1/4 but as japan says that's not what the 8 is for (stock anyway) and in every other comparison the 8 wins. would anyone argue with that? handling,comfort,looks,modern tech,and tradition of rotary.

Japan8

It's 8 all the way. If someone start talking 1/4 mile times, then you just tell them to buy a Mustang instead. More bang for the buck... it'll kill a 350Z without trying... espeically the current Cobra. BUT... it won't handle like an 8... and doesn't have 4 doors.

Reeko

Am I the only one that thinks the 350Z is ugly?

First, I am not anti-Z. I owned a 71 240Z, and a 75 280Z. Both great cars. I also had friends that had 300Zs.

But, to me , the 350 is ugly for some reason. I really can't explain it. I had the choice of either car (the same dealer was a Mazda and Nissan dealer, so I walked across the lot several times comparing), and I REALLY wanted to like the Z better, but I really couldn't take the looks for some reason.

Japan8

I said it earlier... at least about the Maxima, but I really mean it about ALL Nissans. Worthless Renault (I HATE Renault cars) ruined the beautiful cars Nissan used to make. THe Cima (Q45) and the G35 (Skyline) are the only cars I think are ok. NOt great, but ok. The Z... totally FUGLY. I'd rather have a G35c.

picosrx8

Dollar for dollar, it the hands down winner.

But what if you put RX8 vs Ford GT?
Sure the GT costs $120000 more. It does beat it in the 1/4 though...lol

boothguy

The 350Z was in play for me, but not for all that long. The front end of the car still makes me shudder when I see one on the street, and the proportions of the convert look downright chubby from the rear with the top down. That, plus the interior room was almost exactly what I'd been living with in my 3gen: extremely limited. The track times that Top Gear got for both cars (same driver, same course) were identical, so that cinched it.

rx8miami

we are in consensus then? nissan has been ruined by renault and their cars suck? j/k the 8 is just a better car all around and the 350 appeals more to yuppie types which is no question to me. a few month back at a x-mass party for my job I had a little arguement with a co worker which is a cpa and she was telling me once she got her x-mass bonus she was goign to splurge and buy the 350z or g35 cp. I asked her why not consider the 8. she said the 8 was cheap and not popular enough. Need I say more bout who buys the 350 and who buys the 8?

Butt Dyno

re: "Z has more torque but we handle better"

Top Gear got the same 1:38.1 around the track in their Z that they got in their 8... the RX8 got creamed by the Z in the Rotary Reborn track comparison at Tsukaba...

When will you people learn that torque matters at the track too?

john