04ls1vette

Hmm a lot of information here is really useless. Oh and KC prelude, your comments are purely methodical in that GM sucks to you. Good for you cause i think Preludes are for Girls. That's my take on that.

The GTO is very nice inside, the interior truly is one of the best i've seen in a V8 GM sports car. Very classy and pure. The design every one states is that it looks dull and like a Grand Prix. I thought the same until i saw one. They are actually very nice cars with a good design modeled after the Monaro in Australia. The Car is doing the 1/4 now in the mid 13's and gets very good gas mileage. The same as the Rx-8 as a matter of fact. Its two different worlds, either you like an import or you like V8 Muscles?? You should go test drive both if you're really serious then make your decision based on that. As far as speed though you shouldn't even put an Rx-8 in the same sentence. You're on an Rx-8 site though so of course they are going to say negative things about the GTO, GM, and every aspect other than its undeniable speed. Just wait until this guy the baller responds. I'm waiting for an always intelligent comment on his behalf.

Oh and as far as the Cavalier going to be a V-8 possibility...umm no incorrect. The cavalier is now the Cobalt and GM is already making a couple versions of this one which will be supercharged, 240 horsepower and high 13 1/4 miles for about 20/21 k. The redesign is alright and the interior is also an upgrade from the norm.

wakeech

wait, what??

anyways, this is a severe repost. RX-8 vs. ___ threads are getting worse and worse every time.

the GTO is a different beast: heavier, less balanced, expecantly a little less sophisticated (it's inherent in muscle car cool), and *****-out power.

04ls1vette

I also forgot that an LS6 powered GTO will be arriving either late late this year or early next. It will be called the "Judge", as named by the original which all car enthusiasts should know. It will be 400 horsepower, contain the LS6 and do 0-60's in the 4's. Also it will be a very capable and handling car. If you want any additional info lemme know.

KC_Prelude

HAHA my prelude doesn't even have VTEC. But come on the GTO looks like an oversized cavy. The drivetrain is great but even with one of the "best interiors GM has ever produced" its still pretty bland and boring, especially at the price point ($34-$36,000?). Its made to be a dragstrip/highway cruiser car. Cars that heavy are less fun to take through corners. You can get many much better cars for that kind of money or less(RX-8, STI, EVO).

04ls1vette

You don't buy a GTO too take corners, that's not its primary function. You buy it for speed, looks, relative good handling, blended into a car that does get pretty good gas mileage and a nice interior with a good sound system.

XDEEDUBBX

i test drove the GTO on a small auto x course... it revs up really nice and sounds nice but thats where the table turns...on tight hairpins there is too much oversteer... the curb weight could be felt at every turn... the interior was horrible..i have to stretch my arm so far just to shift... and it feel like your sitting in a 87 thunderbird...

RX8Lover

Oooooh, Ahhhhhhh....look at that bland styling.

KC_Prelude

"Real men attack those corners" - Tsuchiya

Speed - Got it
Looks - Really missed the mark
Relative good handling - Ok but not great
Gas mileage - Good for this much power
Interior and Sound - Good

If you look at the GTO as a cheaper alternative to a Corvette it seems like a pretty good deal, it probably even has a better interior. However I see it as an overpriced and ugly slapped together parts car from chevy. Its too much like a souped up impala. I am not really biased against chevy its just that everything they make besides the corvette is more about making money than making good cars. Different folks look for different thrills.

MTCD01

My GF has an 01(or was it 02) RAM Air Grand AM GT...the warranty is up now. We cannot afford to keep that steaming pile working properly. The engine is good. The brakes suck (for a vehicle of that weight and capability [I've had that one over 120]). The fit and finish is absolutely awful, less than a week after getting this brand new car trim pieces started to fall off (exterior), after a few months the dome light fell down (I have no idea how that happened) and it's currently falling down again. The relay for the turn signals activates randomly and without input (will begin clicking while you are driving at random intervals) because of this the signals may or may not work. There is some kind of short circuit in the drivers side taillight (constantly burns out bulbs). The clear coat has fallen off of both rear view mirrors (nice and dull now). The seams on the front and rear bumper are creeping apart (although they never were straight). The interior is just plain junk.

During it's warranty period the thing was in the shop at least once a month for some kind of cosmetic detail (they wouldn't cover the mirrors though). The car is not that old and there is no excuse for the **** poor craftsmanship I've seen in every aspect of this vehicle.

But it does have a descent motor. Not worth the 24+ she paid for it though.

JM2C

KC_Prelude

I think the above about sums it up.

MTCD01

I really can't say enough bad things about the quality of that Pontiac.

Funny thing I saw at a local car wash: There was a small sign at the register (Sweetwater Splash) that stated that the management would no longer be responsible for the rearview mirror coming off of the 2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Ams any longer.

Evidently it was a big problem.

ALMOST8IT

The 8 GT and the GTO are actually good competitors in the 30-34k price range. Both try to fill the fun/quick car for those that need or want more than 2 seats.

Go look at the GTO at your Pontiac Dealer. To me:
1. the styling was bland, though that isn't a bad thing I kind of like the sleeper effect.
2. the engine has a great sound
3. the interior is the best I have seen on a GM
4. it has a long and proven track record in Australia, even if it is new in the states
5. I have owned new gm limited run performance cars in the past and have always had big problems, though the dealers were always good about correcting the problems
6. its overpriced for what you get (in Vegas they are stickering at 37-38k and no dealing)

Go look at the 8 at the Mazda dealerships as well. To me:
1. the rotary is a slick and smooth engine, drive it, you'll like it
2. the interior is quirky but cool, forget about easy radio swaps and such since the housing appears customized
3. the exterior looks draw attention, nothing subtle about it, looks great
4. based on this board it seems that more problems are being found as time goes on and only a few Mazda dealerships seem willing or able to address problem issues
5. spare tire issue, no spare standard, the optional spare eats most of the trunk, and no run-flats are available in the same size as the original tires
6. the price is right, good bang for the buck

They are both fine cars, it just comes down to what you like better, big engine big power sedate styling or slick engine slick agility and bold styling.

04ls1vette

That pic of the GTO does not do it justice. How come every one takes a grand am and compares it. That is dumb, it's a lower pontiac. Then i noticed a lot of people calling it Chevy. It's not a chevy, it's a pontiac. Another thing is that I hear complaints about Rx-8's burning oil left and right. I really wouldn't talk to much about the GTO if i were any of you. I've never seen a site talk so much smack about a car. Unbelievable. It's a nice car, quick, good looking, excellent interior, etc.

As far as bang for the buck goes the Rx-8 isn't better than a GTO. An rx-8 is a high 14 second car which goes for high 20's, low 30's. If were gonna talk bang for the buck then lets start talking about the SRT. 20k for high 13's. Come on.

murix

The problem with that argument is how many of us did not buy this car to run the 1/4 mile. I race on tracks where hp helps but it is not everything. I see big power heavy cars consistently get passed on the track. I even passed a new mustang cobra with almost twice the hp. Of course it has a lot to do with the driver, but having a big heavy car and trying to throw it around a corner does not help either.

I have nothing against the GTO. I am glad GM had the insight to bring it to America. It appeals to those looking for muscle and raw power and the feeling that gives to you packaged in something usable by a regular guy who needs the extra space because his life involves more than just driving. I commend them for keeping it looking simple vs doing a lot of body stick ons.

The styling is controversial as it is on a RX8.

What I attacked was the entire point of making a RX8 vs. ____ post asking about comparing performance when those type of numbers are available in any major car mag or on the web.

The difference between cars comes down to subjective feel and style of driving, something that can be answered by knowing what you are looking for and then going out for a test drive. Not that difficult.

I take people asking about <new fad car> vs <new fad car> not very serious.

My RX8 fits my personal lifestyle better than any other car I compared it to. That is all there is to it.

MTCD01

Well the Grand AM may be in a lower price range but if she had purchased a toyota, honda, or mazda in the same price range I can nearly guarantee that the car wouldn't have just fallen apart and she would be much happier today. IMO there is no reason a 24+ thousand dollar vehicle should fall apart after 2-3 years of regular driving (no autoX, no racing, never wrecked). It's simply BS that Americans will accept that lack of quality from their own Countrymen.

Bang for the buck...check the resale value in a couple of years and tell me how much VALUE the GTO offers. American cars have low resale because they are junk. My father had a 2001 RAM Air Firebird, great torque, acceptable handling, and I thought it was a pretty car. After two and a half years with low miles and every oil change and regular service the vehicle still wasn't worth as much as was owed.

If you want a V8 then you buy American and eat the sticker. If your measure of "bang for the buck" is just a dollar per lb of torque equasion then yes the GTO is the way to go but if "bang for the buck" includes resale value and overall quality then you can't pit American muscle against imports.

zoom44

people that complain that their rx-8 is burning oil left and right have not done their rotary engine homework. the rotary engine burns a little oil by design. the oil is injected into the combustion cycle to lube the seals. very little is actually used in the renesis as compared to old rotaries.


edit: however i agree with you on most points about the gto. its a decent car will have good gas mileage for the power and it used to be a monaro which the aussies seemed to like well enough. i think the price could be a little lower. and yeah muscle cars aren't for the tight twisties where as the rx-8 is. that should be the deciding factor. how do you like to drive. which ones is better suited for your driving style. (not yours in particular vette just anyone making this particular comparo.

Apathy Curve

I sold an LS-1 car ('98 TA) to buy my 8. The LS-1 powertrain is quite probably the best that GM has ever built. Gobs of torque, nearly bullet-proof, (except for the cheap-*** seals on the differential), and got surprisingly good mileage. I never had any real complaints with the powertrain. The problem was elsewhere-- to whit, the entire rest of the car.

I won't go through a full recounting of all the pieces that fell off, electrical faults, rattles, shitty electronics, and other foibles; just see MTCD01's post about the Grand Am above, (oh, and a TA is in the price-class of an RX-8, 04ls1vette). It was without a doubt the most poorly-assembled vehicle I've ever owned. Oh, it would get up and leave like a naked teenaged girl at a pervo convention, but the parts all slid forward when you hit the brakes. Shoddy workmanship all around.

Whether you want to call him a fanboi or not, KC_Prelude is generally correct about General Motors products. Their quality control has been questionable (at best) for many years, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. A great powertrain is, well... great. But unless they start building decently-engineered and assembled vehicles around it, the amazing LS-1 and its descendents are destined for the dustbin of history.

Any LS-1 powered car (driven by someone who knows what they're doing-- it's not as easy as you might think to get all that power solidly on the pavement) will beat an RX-8 in a straight line. If stop-light drag racing makes your pants tight, then go buy a GTO. I don't know about you, but I have to make several dozen turns on the way to work.

Oh, and the Monaro--er, I mean "GTO",--is ugly and very, very plain to my eyes. I won't rule out ever buying a GM product again, but I can certainly tell you that they weren't even on the list when I started shopping for a replacement for the TA. They've got a long, long way to go before they can entice me into looking at their products with a buyer's eye again.

babylou

I'm tired of this crap from ignorant people that keep spreading lies based on 20 year old history. Overall, GM is the most reliable American make, more reliable than all but one European make but there are four Japanese makes that are more reliable.

Why did I say "ignorant people"? Because the publicly available data from JD Power and Consumer Reports are unbiased and prove what I say. Yet these naysayers are too freaking lazy to spend five minutes on the 'net to see if anything has changed over time.

ALMOST8IT

GM Quaility.

I have also read that GM quality has improved significantly in the last few years. With regard to the GTO / RX8 debate, quality is probably not a significant issue since it will likely be comparable.

With regard to staying on the road and out of the shop, the GTO may have an advantage in that the drive train is common rather than exotic. Many mechanics can work on a GTO, and in general the GM dealers I have had to work with were pretty good. The RX8 is exotic and nobody but the Mazda dealership and a few specialty shops is likely to have any experience with the rotary.

Aditionally, in many markets there are multiple GM/Pontiac dealers to a single Mazda dealership. Here in Las Vegas that is the case, and the service department of the Mazda dealership here has been mentioned on rx-7 boards in a most unfavorable way when it comes to understanding and servicing the rotary. My own experience at our local Mazda dealer's service department has also been unfavorable.

I digress. As to quality, again it will likely be a wash. Do some research on your local dealerships since they'll be the ones you need in the event of a problem.

mazdaman

the new GTO looks like a sunfire, it looks cheap and doesnt deserve to be called the GTO, yes it has the power but they really messed that car up. the GTO would beat the RX8 in any racing event due to its power and it is easier to mod, there is only so much you can do to a rotary engine(in terms of switching out cams, rockers, etc..).

MBL-RX8

I can vouch for the Grand Am being a total pile of crap. I drive one as my work vehicle and the inherent lack of quality is really, really obvious...and it's only a 4 cylinder too.

You can't believe how hard it is to pass my beautiful brilliant black baby when I leave the parking lot in this hunk of plastic junk! :o

Apathy Curve

Well, babylou, if your OPINION is that GM makes quality products, then I'm happy for you. Go buy them. However, saying that I'm ignorant in regards to GM vehicles, when I just it made it very plain that I've owned one for the last six years, is a non-sequiter. It simply makes you look like the ignorant one, here.

Additionally, my girlfriend just traded in her '96 Monte Carlo for a Mazda3, and there were a similar (and often part-related) slew of problems with that car. If you choose to believe the damage-control numbers that GM keeps pushing out, that's fine. It's certainly your prerogative; but to call me ignorant of General Motors quality control issues when I've got years of scraped knuckles from working on not just one but TWO GM vehicles to back up my opinion is just plain silly. I suggest you spend more time thinking before you get your panties in a wad and start typing.

Baller

I see your still trolling........

Lawerence

Ive owned two GM vehicles in the past.

One was a 93 (or 94) bonivelle SSEI (supercharged). It neer gave me any problems except over 100K miles the power steering belt snapped. No biggie.


My other was a cadillac Catera (actually the same platform as the GTO). Cateras were known for thier poor reliability. But the only problem i had was the sunroof stuck open sometimes. Which you could easily fix yourself by pushing the sunroof button in.

I was very happy with my GM products then I went to nissan...man I will never buy a new nissan i'll tell you that right now.

04ls1vette

While talking about resale, American V8's hold it pretty well. I did some research about a month ago and did a test on a 2002 Z-28. It lost 22% value up to the time doing the research. Then i did the same on a 330xi BMW from 2002 also and it lost 32% value. I also did it compared to an 2002 Honda accord V6 coupe and the honda lost 20% value. So i thought that was pretty interesting. A car will always not be traded in for what you owe most of the time due to the dealer wanting to rip you off. Most parts though you should be able to break even and if not gain a couple bucks out of the deal. I am very happy with my GM products and will say yes there are occasional minor problems but i expect them because i drive it very hard.

Oh and Baller, once again just in case you didn't read b4. Please do not REPRODUCE for the sake of mankind. We really don't need more people like you on Earth. Well not that any girl would want you anyway. Notice how everyone else can make a point, discuss things and not act like a 5 year old? Of course you don't, ignorance is blind.