Rotary Revival Bid With MAZDA'S RX-9
03-25-2009, 10:00 AM
#52
The Slow and the Serious
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I realize I'm in the minority here, and I guess I won't push the issue anymore. But I know the style of driving that pleases me personally, and I feel myself being squeezed into a smaller and smaller niche, and have no recourse outside of moving to Europe (which isn't the least bit feasible at this point and time). I live in the most ridiculously anti-manual, anti-hatchback, anti-diesel, anti-small car, anti-everything country on earth.
03-25-2009, 02:28 PM
#53
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exactly.....they are losing (have lost) momentum with many current owners, esp. of the early RX model years, and the marketplace as well.
I fear Mazda is "Evolv"ing into another Toyota or Honda...that is..leaving the enthusiast market (for the most part) for the cashcow market of 'sporty but mundane' everyday vehicles. The most they seem willing to invest in is a little caffeine for the FWD crowd, aka the MS3 and maintaining the drop top crowd, although there's not serious performance w/the Miata product either.
I fear Mazda is "Evolv"ing into another Toyota or Honda...that is..leaving the enthusiast market (for the most part) for the cashcow market of 'sporty but mundane' everyday vehicles. The most they seem willing to invest in is a little caffeine for the FWD crowd, aka the MS3 and maintaining the drop top crowd, although there's not serious performance w/the Miata product either.
I agree. I have an '04 and am ready for something new, but thus far, Mazda has not even given a hint of what is coming or when? If I knew the 16x car was definitely coming and was still a couple of years out, Id wait, but we know absolutely nothing as of now...no timetable, type of car (two seater, 2 + 2, etc.) I'll probably end up switching brands because of this and will likely end up with a 370 this spring.
03-25-2009, 04:42 PM
#54
Momentum Keeps Me Going
More reliable that what? I haven't read much about RX8 transmission problems.
I realize I'm in the minority here, and I guess I won't push the issue anymore. But I know the style of driving that pleases me personally, and I feel myself being squeezed into a smaller and smaller niche, and have no recourse outside of moving to Europe (which isn't the least bit feasible at this point and time). I live in the most ridiculously anti-manual, anti-hatchback, anti-diesel, anti-small car, anti-everything country on earth.
I realize I'm in the minority here, and I guess I won't push the issue anymore. But I know the style of driving that pleases me personally, and I feel myself being squeezed into a smaller and smaller niche, and have no recourse outside of moving to Europe (which isn't the least bit feasible at this point and time). I live in the most ridiculously anti-manual, anti-hatchback, anti-diesel, anti-small car, anti-everything country on earth.
. My lifestyle, car design preferences, food preferences, beer preferences, and general attitude is so at odds with the 'mainstream' American style I feel like I'm a foreigner in my own country. If only I could afford to live there (either outter space or Europe!).Thank God for craft Belgian Ale (>8% ABV) and what's left of the manual, sporty, lightweight cars we can (still) get.....or I'd be insane......but likely that won't last for very much longer...unless Mazda steps up to the plate and gets their act together....but i've lost hope of that happening realisticly.
03-25-2009, 08:41 PM
#58
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I've always felt that I really came from outer space...or Europe. My lifestyle, car design preferences, food preferences, beer preferences, and general attitude is so at odds with the 'mainstream' American style I feel like I'm a foreigner in my own country. If only I could afford to live there (either outter space or Europe!).
Thank God for craft Belgian Ale (>8% ABV) and what's left of the manual, sporty, lightweight cars we can (still) get.....or I'd be insane......but likely that won't last for very much longer...unless Mazda steps up to the plate and gets their act together....but i've lost hope of that happening realisticly.
. My lifestyle, car design preferences, food preferences, beer preferences, and general attitude is so at odds with the 'mainstream' American style I feel like I'm a foreigner in my own country. If only I could afford to live there (either outter space or Europe!).Thank God for craft Belgian Ale (>8% ABV) and what's left of the manual, sporty, lightweight cars we can (still) get.....or I'd be insane......but likely that won't last for very much longer...unless Mazda steps up to the plate and gets their act together....but i've lost hope of that happening realisticly.
03-26-2009, 07:14 AM
#59
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Tempting! ...but aren't you guys heading into fall..winter? ... after the really really PITA winter we've just had I'd 
myself if I see anymore freakin cold/snow/ice 
...not to mention the massive case of track-withdrawal I'm hangering to get rid of...
...but in the fall....how knows
myself if I see anymore freakin cold/snow/ice ...not to mention the massive case of track-withdrawal I'm hangering to get rid of......but in the fall....how knows
03-26-2009, 03:32 PM
#60
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Australia's Winters are Mild compared to you guys and the UK.....Snow, generally only in Victoria (small area).....
RAIN..we have been in a drought for the past 11 years...so you won't get wet.
RAIN..we have been in a drought for the past 11 years...so you won't get wet.
03-26-2009, 04:53 PM
#61
Rotary eXperimental-8
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03-26-2009, 06:07 PM
#62
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I had to laugh.
03-26-2009, 08:39 PM
#65
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Next Mazda MX-5 to twin with RX-9
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257582007A7CB2
MAZDA’S post-modern take on the original 1960s Lotus Elan – the MX-5 – will take a decidedly post post-modern turn when the next all-new model arrives in 2012.
While the classic front-engine and rear-wheel drive proportions will carry through, the fourth-generation roadster will introduce smaller and far more efficient engine choices, lighter running gear and even electric power steering, to make the MX-5 the greenest – as well as the most controversial – convertible in Mazda’s history.
A sub-1000kg kerb weight is the target, compared to the latest MX-5’s 1129kg to 1177kg mass.
Overseas reports suggest that the 2012 MX-5 is being developed alongside a secret new 2+2-seater coupe that will both replace and undercut the pricey RX-8 as Mazda’s flagship, and is deliberately being devised to evoke memories of the first RX-7 of 1978.
Also due in three years, ‘RX-9’ will be the closed coupe’s probable moniker, earning the right to be powered by a rotary engine.
But while both Mazda sports cars will share the same underbody architecture, the MX-5 will boast a far bolder visage in both soft-top and retractable hardtop configurations than any of the three previous generations since 1989.
Last year, Mazda design boss Laurens van den Acker told one European publication: “The last (MX-5) was too conservative and we can’t do another car like that. We need to make it more dramatic and give it some *****.”
By contrast, the RX-9 will abandon the sedan-like four-seater bodystyle and ‘suicide doors’ of its RX-8 predecessor for a shorter and sleeker two-door shape boasting a classic coupe silhouette.
According to a Mazda insider, there is also “no way” the next MX-5 will adopt the RX-9’s rumoured ‘16X’ 200kW-plus 1.6-litre twin-chamber rotary engine that is said to be more than 20 per cent more economical and significantly less polluting than the existing RENESIS 1303cc rotary unit found in the RX-8, as it will push the price point well beyond the current roadster’s sub-$45,000 level.
Further, the inevitable size and mass increases associated with using a more powerful engine like a rotary, as well as the larger brake, clutch, suspension and body/chassis bracing componentry needed as a result of the associated output increases, are an anathema to Mazda’s weight-reduction goals.
Instead, the company is said to be developing a range of light and compact 1.4-litre and 1.6-litre direct-injection petrol engines that will use forced induction such as a turbocharger to achieve performance levels equal to or better than the 1.8 and 2.0-litre four-cylinder units offered today.
Fuel consumption and emissions outputs that are a fraction of today’s MX-5 are central to the small engine cause.
They are also behind the dropping of the lauded hydraulic powered rack and pinion steering system, for an electric unit.
Our source is also pessimistic about the MX-5’s chances of gaining Mazda’s upcoming dual-clutch manual gearbox that is slated for the RX-9, on the grounds of both price and complexity.
Meanwhile, while today’s MX-5 and RX-8 share suspension modules, Mazda’s concerted push to regain the lightness and litheness of the first-generation NA MX-5 model means the bulky double wishbone front end is expected to give way to a lighter set-up on both models.
Whether the next MX-5 and RX-9 adopt similarly sophisticated front wishbones and rear multi-link arrangements remains to be seen.
However, it is likely that the front-midship drivetrain layout that sees the current MX-5’s engine located just behind the front axle will again be used, to help it and the RX-9 achieve the desired 50/50 front-to-rear weight distribution.
GoAuto has learned that, when development of the existing NC-series MX-5 commenced in 2002, Mazda was constrained by its previous overlords Ford to keep costs down by using the heavy RX-8 hardware, and this created many headaches for the engineers.
“This mistake will not be repeated,” our source promised.
Incredibly, considering the strong following the MX-5 has had over the past 20 years, the NC soft-top almost never made it to production for the same reason, as Ford was keen to replicate the success of the Peugeot 206 CC with a retractable folding hard-top design.
Mazda’s engineers in Japan, in strong favour of continuing with the light fabric roof, devised two NC MX-5 prototypes, but the soft-top was initially knocked back because it required different – and prohibitively expensive – rear-quarter sheetmetal to the signed-off folding hardtop model.
“But once Ford design boss J. Mays saw how good the soft-top MX-5 looked against the retractable hard-top version, he convinced Ford’s hierarchy to invest in both roof options,” our source revealed.
MAZDA’S post-modern take on the original 1960s Lotus Elan – the MX-5 – will take a decidedly post post-modern turn when the next all-new model arrives in 2012.
While the classic front-engine and rear-wheel drive proportions will carry through, the fourth-generation roadster will introduce smaller and far more efficient engine choices, lighter running gear and even electric power steering, to make the MX-5 the greenest – as well as the most controversial – convertible in Mazda’s history.
A sub-1000kg kerb weight is the target, compared to the latest MX-5’s 1129kg to 1177kg mass.
Overseas reports suggest that the 2012 MX-5 is being developed alongside a secret new 2+2-seater coupe that will both replace and undercut the pricey RX-8 as Mazda’s flagship, and is deliberately being devised to evoke memories of the first RX-7 of 1978.
Also due in three years, ‘RX-9’ will be the closed coupe’s probable moniker, earning the right to be powered by a rotary engine.
But while both Mazda sports cars will share the same underbody architecture, the MX-5 will boast a far bolder visage in both soft-top and retractable hardtop configurations than any of the three previous generations since 1989.
Last year, Mazda design boss Laurens van den Acker told one European publication: “The last (MX-5) was too conservative and we can’t do another car like that. We need to make it more dramatic and give it some *****.”
By contrast, the RX-9 will abandon the sedan-like four-seater bodystyle and ‘suicide doors’ of its RX-8 predecessor for a shorter and sleeker two-door shape boasting a classic coupe silhouette.
According to a Mazda insider, there is also “no way” the next MX-5 will adopt the RX-9’s rumoured ‘16X’ 200kW-plus 1.6-litre twin-chamber rotary engine that is said to be more than 20 per cent more economical and significantly less polluting than the existing RENESIS 1303cc rotary unit found in the RX-8, as it will push the price point well beyond the current roadster’s sub-$45,000 level.
Further, the inevitable size and mass increases associated with using a more powerful engine like a rotary, as well as the larger brake, clutch, suspension and body/chassis bracing componentry needed as a result of the associated output increases, are an anathema to Mazda’s weight-reduction goals.
Instead, the company is said to be developing a range of light and compact 1.4-litre and 1.6-litre direct-injection petrol engines that will use forced induction such as a turbocharger to achieve performance levels equal to or better than the 1.8 and 2.0-litre four-cylinder units offered today.
Fuel consumption and emissions outputs that are a fraction of today’s MX-5 are central to the small engine cause.
They are also behind the dropping of the lauded hydraulic powered rack and pinion steering system, for an electric unit.
Our source is also pessimistic about the MX-5’s chances of gaining Mazda’s upcoming dual-clutch manual gearbox that is slated for the RX-9, on the grounds of both price and complexity.
Meanwhile, while today’s MX-5 and RX-8 share suspension modules, Mazda’s concerted push to regain the lightness and litheness of the first-generation NA MX-5 model means the bulky double wishbone front end is expected to give way to a lighter set-up on both models.
Whether the next MX-5 and RX-9 adopt similarly sophisticated front wishbones and rear multi-link arrangements remains to be seen.
However, it is likely that the front-midship drivetrain layout that sees the current MX-5’s engine located just behind the front axle will again be used, to help it and the RX-9 achieve the desired 50/50 front-to-rear weight distribution.
GoAuto has learned that, when development of the existing NC-series MX-5 commenced in 2002, Mazda was constrained by its previous overlords Ford to keep costs down by using the heavy RX-8 hardware, and this created many headaches for the engineers.
“This mistake will not be repeated,” our source promised.
Incredibly, considering the strong following the MX-5 has had over the past 20 years, the NC soft-top almost never made it to production for the same reason, as Ford was keen to replicate the success of the Peugeot 206 CC with a retractable folding hard-top design.
Mazda’s engineers in Japan, in strong favour of continuing with the light fabric roof, devised two NC MX-5 prototypes, but the soft-top was initially knocked back because it required different – and prohibitively expensive – rear-quarter sheetmetal to the signed-off folding hardtop model.
“But once Ford design boss J. Mays saw how good the soft-top MX-5 looked against the retractable hard-top version, he convinced Ford’s hierarchy to invest in both roof options,” our source revealed.
03-26-2009, 08:46 PM
#66
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Interesting what I and many here have been saying that Mazda needs to make a Lightweight MX-5 with a Rotary like the original RX-7.....
HOORAY!..... this is what the Rotary is all about...
Also how FORD's bean counters burdened Mazda engineers with PENNY PINCHING!
HOORAY!!!....No more FORD....
HOORAY!..... this is what the Rotary is all about...
Also how FORD's bean counters burdened Mazda engineers with PENNY PINCHING!
HOORAY!!!....No more FORD....
Last edited by ASH8; 03-26-2009 at 08:49 PM.
03-27-2009, 03:39 AM
#67
very interesting read, Ash......my compliments...
the scenario of the next 5 years it's becoming more clear:
-mx-5 return to medium/small displacements (1.6) + turbo
-mx-3 (or something like that) it's on the way (remember kabura?)
-rx-9 it's the next rotary sports, more radical than 8
-diesel it's central in Mazda PWT line-up (for sure in EU, maybe in US also)
no hybrid until 2015 (maybe o 100% guarantee?)
my only disapponiment it' for rotary-hybrid.....
the scenario of the next 5 years it's becoming more clear:
-mx-5 return to medium/small displacements (1.6) + turbo
-mx-3 (or something like that) it's on the way (remember kabura?)
-rx-9 it's the next rotary sports, more radical than 8
-diesel it's central in Mazda PWT line-up (for sure in EU, maybe in US also)
no hybrid until 2015 (maybe o 100% guarantee?)
my only disapponiment it' for rotary-hybrid.....
03-27-2009, 07:06 AM
#68
Registered
Overseas reports suggest ... a secret new 2+2-seater coupe that will both replace and undercut the pricey RX-8 as Mazda’s flagship, and is deliberately being devised to evoke memories of the first RX-7 of 1978.
Also due in three years, ‘RX-9’ will be the closed coupe’s probable moniker, earning the right to be powered by a rotary engine.
...
By contrast [to what?], the RX-9 will abandon the sedan-like four-seater bodystyle and ‘suicide doors’ of its RX-8 predecessor for a shorter and sleeker two-door shape boasting a classic coupe silhouette.
Also due in three years, ‘RX-9’ will be the closed coupe’s probable moniker, earning the right to be powered by a rotary engine.
...
By contrast [to what?], the RX-9 will abandon the sedan-like four-seater bodystyle and ‘suicide doors’ of its RX-8 predecessor for a shorter and sleeker two-door shape boasting a classic coupe silhouette.
03-27-2009, 07:14 AM
#69
Registered
very interesting read, Ash......my compliments...
the scenario of the next 5 years it's becoming more clear:
-mx-5 return to medium/small displacements (1.6) + turbo
-mx-3 (or something like that) it's on the way (remember kabura?)
-rx-9 it's the next rotary sports, more radical than 8
-diesel it's central in Mazda PWT line-up (for sure in EU, maybe in US also)
no hybrid until 2015 (maybe o 100% guarantee?)
my only disapponiment it' for rotary-hybrid.....
the scenario of the next 5 years it's becoming more clear:
-mx-5 return to medium/small displacements (1.6) + turbo
-mx-3 (or something like that) it's on the way (remember kabura?)
-rx-9 it's the next rotary sports, more radical than 8
-diesel it's central in Mazda PWT line-up (for sure in EU, maybe in US also)
no hybrid until 2015 (maybe o 100% guarantee?)
my only disapponiment it' for rotary-hybrid.....
03-27-2009, 07:46 AM
#71
Momentum Keeps Me Going
As always, it's fun reading about what might be....but...this...
"... due in three years, ‘RX-9’ will be the closed coupe’s probable moniker, earning the right to be powered by a rotary engine."
If Mazda thinks the current RX-8 can hold the "Mazda’s flagship" positon....
...newflash...I don't think it has that position now ....and as for yet another three years 
they're drinking overdose levels of their own tainted Koolaid. .... heck, they'll be lucky to sell of the left overs from this year's over-production by then....
IMHO Mazda's keeping to the 2003 promised 10 year life-cycle for the RX-8 platform seems a tad silly with sales virtually dead after "only" 6 years. It has to be that damn Koolaide again if they ever really believed in 2003 that an underpowered car from a decade ago could fight the bully fight for 10 years into the future.
"... due in three years, ‘RX-9’ will be the closed coupe’s probable moniker, earning the right to be powered by a rotary engine."
If Mazda thinks the current RX-8 can hold the "Mazda’s flagship" positon....
...newflash...I don't think it has that position now ....and as for yet another three years they're drinking overdose levels of their own tainted Koolaid. .... heck, they'll be lucky to sell of the left overs from this year's over-production by then....IMHO Mazda's keeping to the 2003 promised 10 year life-cycle for the RX-8 platform seems a tad silly with sales virtually dead after "only" 6 years. It has to be that damn Koolaide again if they ever really believed in 2003 that an underpowered car from a decade ago could fight the bully fight for 10 years into the future.
03-27-2009, 07:54 AM
#72
Are you thinking the 1.4L piston MX-5 will be the MX-3? Seems like you left out the smaller RX-7esque coupe. I thought the news story was talking about an RX-7 and an RX-9 but maybe I'm reading it wrong. Is it just saying that there will be one rotary called the RX-9 'though it will be smaller than the 8, along the lines of the old RX-7.
there will be one FR piston powered coupè..call il mx-3 call or call it mx-6, or mx-7 ( or maybe a new name)
maybe plans are changed (or will change) and will have the 2 rotaries lineup rx-7 and 9
the article from Austraila it's very detailed.....here in EU there are news on the turbo+DISI engine 1.4 -1.6 for the end of 2010 for the new Mazda3...
03-27-2009, 11:25 AM
#74
Huge hole is huge
They should have just released the FD over here again after they got things right towards 1997...Though the failing Yen would still have made issues.
