The Return of the Camaro????
 

Note: A friend emailed me this and some of these pictures are probably old but I thought I'd share them anyway. Per the write up...GM is not into the retro styling (happy to hear that) but instead wants something that is a modern (listen up Ford) interpretation of the Camaro. This new (if GM has the guts and does not water it down) Camaro needs to last them a long time so they want it to look very modern.

Personal opinion: I LOVE the butt of the green concept Camaro and the front of the red/black concept Camaro (not Yenko). If they build that and price it for 25K...the day my lovely 8 goes to heaven...I'm picking me up a Camaro. (that is...if the rear seats are useable) I see some Charger, vette, and viper like looks but again the green's butt and red/black (non-yenko) front would look SWEET

Speed-ER Doc...this might be your next car!!! :D ...and mine...lol

Here is the write up:

The Return of The Camaro!

First Looks - 2007 Model Camaro
Keep in mind that all that all the photos on this page are Concepts for the 2007 Camaro and none represent what the finished 2007 Camaro will look like for certain.

PHR commissioned computer artist and animator Kris Horton to smooth out Pauwel's drawing (below). Horton added color, put realistic wheels and tires on and modeled it in diffuse natural light. The resemblance to the Opel Insignia is striking. Insiders say the base model will be a V6 RS and the performance version will have a 5.3-liter V8 (that's 327 cubic inches!) and be called SS. A year or two later, a more powerful Z28 performance model will follow on, perhaps with a 6-liter V-8.

We get our best idea of what the new-for-2007 Camaro will look like from the members of cheersandgears.com, a website of and for GM enthusiasts. This drawing by artist Chris Pauwels is said to be very close. Many members on the site have close connections to GM and give the rendering credence.

Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.

Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.

Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.

GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed. Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.


If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.

Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!

By: Branden Farthing
GM Inside News

Warning: Many pictures to follow...don't post until I'm done (please)

Update: Everyone butt Vectorwolf.... :p

Next few...

I've heard about this before, and I think it's a totally hot car. I mean, THAT is how you re-make a classic design (take note, Ford...). I'd definitely have mine in Green. :D

Last few...

Note: Motor Trend needs some people with passion and style...their concepts are the worst! I even didn't include one cause it was WAY CONSERVATIVE!

:rolleyes:

Repost in my head. I can't remember the link, and no I'm not going to find it. What the hell was wrong with the 4th Gen. Camaro? Well, the body is considered archaic by now, but damn the SS was still able to keep up with the 03' Cobra thanks to its lighter weight. The bodystyle on these concepts are pretty good, but something needs to be done about the front fascia if you're going to go with these retro looks.

This car...would KILL everything on the road today (in it's price range...and higher up) in regards to looks and most likely performance also. If they build it at 3350 pounds, make the rear seats usable, and make it as balanced and good handling as possible (aka RX8) then this would be a HOMERUN!!!!

I LOVE that butt on the green one...ohhh mama!

I just looks like a Corvette with the front of the new Mustang :p

I don't think they'll make it handle that well, just my guess. If they do it decent they'll probably put some old tech on it like the leaf springs on the Corvette, which would make it handle decent for its segment. I don't expect the power to be questionable though.

It may look cool, but it's still a white-trash-mobile ;)

rear of the Green is HOT BUT the front is aweful...in fact the front of everyone of these pics is G-d aweful gouge my eyes out bad!

fix the front and u have one hellavu car (oh and don't f-up the interior either, like the mustang)

Yeah...now a days they can't do the butt of cars right, but in theses concept shots it seems they have trouble with the front.

But...with the green butt and red/black front...I'd take it!

There are NHTSA rules about rears and fronts that limit the design of these areas of cars. However, the rules have become more laxed as of late. Used to be that car lights had to be a certain shape, brightness, and color. Now there is some flexibility and you have seen these improve immensely. However, there are other structural rules involving bumper design that change the fronts and rears from concept to delivery.

I could be wrong, but I thought GM cancelled work on the rear-drive platform that this new Camaro would have been built off of. What was the date your info came out? If it is real recent, then I could be wrong.

Dang you NHTSA...lol, thanks for keeping us safe...but I hope they don't mess up the front of the upcomming Camaro.

I heard that too so the new info was confusing. As you can tell by the writeup it seems they are trying to keep this hush hush...but it's probably up in the air.

I received the email yesterday but I could not trace (didn't have the time) when this was posted. Apparently there is a webiste (or two) listed the writeup that might shed some light on this.

GM were fools when they killed the Camaro...they would be fools not to bring it back. The Mustang (while I like it) has always been a boxy sports car while the Camaro was more curvy so I hope they build it again.

This time, they better increase quality...make a better interior, and make it more comfortable in the rear. Personally I think alot of people are missing out (sports car guys with familes) on the space the RX8 provides and if such a light car could offer space in the back...then the next Camaro should be able to also.

I don't worry too much about power because I think GM's V8 will take care of that on it's own. Don't build it to fat...to soft or too unbalanced (while keeping it within the common man/woman) and they will have a smash hit. PLEASE....PLEASE, keep that green butt...it's so sexy! J-Lo like...lol

i read somewhere in autoweek that the 2nd coming of the camaro is dead. let me try to find the article...

Well, I'm glad I was not the only one who thought it was dead. I hope we are wrong...and GM does not punk out... :(

Time to email Bob Lutz!!! :D

Current GM news: Zeta is still dead for production in North America, BUT still a go down under...

GM wants to find another platform (Sigma-lite, etc) to produce the rumored Camaro.

Apparently, the next gen GTO is a go for 2008...

*DISCLAIMER: Due to GM's uncertainty with all things performance-oriented, the details of this post could be obsolete in 5 minutes...

Yeah...GM is too busy making sub-par family sadans...to worry about performance cars to bring people into the show rooms.

Seeing as how the Mustang is selling out so quick (especially GT's), GM would have to be fairly dumb to just ignore this market segment. Part of the reason why they ditched the F bodies was because their contract in Canada was so unprofitable. They signed an agreement whereby any car called "Camaro" must be built there until 2007. So, they just quit building it. When 2007 rolls around, they are free to do as they wish. That's why there's so much secrecy, and why any talk of an affordable RWD coupe isn't being referred to by the name "Camaro".

The reason why the Camaro died is because A) the quality was even worse than the Mustang; and B) the V6 version was apparently worse than the V6 Mustang. You have to get the V6 version right because that's 80% of your sales right there. Without the big V8, you have to rely on the styling and amenities to appeal to the V6 demographic (secretaries, parents, fat chicks), and the Camaro just didn't cut it. Here's what they should do to insure success in a new Camaro:

* Make sure the interior is at least on par with the Mustang
* Make sure the exterior styling on the V6 model is appealing to females (the camaro was not)
* Don't worry about V6 HP too much, just make sure it runs smooth and reliable
* If they can incorporate RX-8 style rear doors that would help greatly with the V6 demographic
* Ride/handling should be on par with the Mustang. Independent rear suspension if possible.

I know the freestyle doors and rear suspension sound like a stretch, from a cost standpoint. But if they share enough parts with other GM platforms (Caddy, future GTO), the economies of scale might make it feasible.

For the V8 version it will be a lot easier to compete. Simply offer a 375 HP LS2 and T-56 transmission, as opposed to the Mustang's 300 HP and 5-speed, and a more aggressive body kit (ie, thnk of the V6 model as a regular RX-8, with the Z28 look being analogous to the Mazdaspeed RX-8). If/when the Camaro is released, 375 HP will be the magic number. Why? It's a 60+ higher than the Mustang, but 25 less than the Corvette. Kind of like they had all throughout the 90's.

I think it would be a big mistake if the Camaro or Trans Am was not reborn. In recent years with the tuner craze many of the import guys are starting to gravitate towards the old LS1 cars. I think it would be prime time to introduce a new inexpensive V8 powered car to compete with the Mustang in the next year or two. Most car guys know Chevy destroys Ford when it comes to V8 power, it's just most of us can't afford a Vette nor do we care for the ho hum GTO.

I think if we don't see a new Camaro/Trans Am or even Supra in the next few years GM and Toyota will be missing out a nice opportunity.

Looks awesome. About time Chevy brings the Camaro back. Now let's all hold our collective breath as we wait for the hideously poseurish V6 prototype.

LOL...just by this thread (while still a baby thread) I get the sense that alot of us where disapointed in GM when they gave up the F-cars.

I agree that GM has to be at a stage where you realize they can't build CRAP, it has to be at least "good" quality, "good" comfort, "good" rear space, and like already stated make the V6 version pertty "good" and they will overtake the Mustang.

Let's face it, while the new Mustang looks "nice" and with mods will look MEAN as heck...the V6 version is just so unsexy.

If the next Camaro (as I keep saying) has that green butt and a better ront end...oh mama, they will have a killer on their hands.

Holy Crap that camaro look's sweet. But it has like a C6 body and I want to know what's under the hood :(

I want one.

I'll bet details wont come out until 2006...if GM really is going ahead with it.

GM don't be stupid! If you build it they will come. Don't move to far away from the concept. It looks like they have a good thing going. It would be nice to see Chevy rejoin the party.

http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102918

A CTS chassis based Camaro would be a good place to start.

No way you will see this car in 2007. There would already be contracts in place for the parts. Most those concepts did look retro-like. Many too much like the 80's version of the camaro, worst looking one by far. They would have to come out with a kick-butt car to do well at all. Watch out for the Mustang. Everyone went crazy for the retro look but after seeing so many out on the streets already I am bored to death with them. Remind me of the 70's econo version. Think the sales will really drop off after the stang freaks get their new one and people get sick of seeing them out on the road. Most car companies are staying away from the performance cars and going for the everyday type cars. Look at Toyota, GM, Even Honda with the exception of the s2000. Ford is doing well with the Stang cause it is the only "muscle" car left. Chrysler is doing OK with the Hemi right now but that will fade if they dont improve other factors of the cars and make them affordable.

Man, I live in a small, I mean very small town attached to an Air Force base. I swear I see a new Mustang every day. Sickening, when I first saw the retro coming back in a magazine a few years back I was pumped because I rode around in a 66 and a 67(my friend's) in the 80's H.S. The only way to have one of these Mustangs is to spend alot of dough to make it very unique. They are all over the damn place and alot of those awful V6's. But, if the Camaro can even come close to a couple of those drawings I will definitely take a hard look. Somehow I get a feeling the final product will disappoint. By the time they take a beautiful idea and hack it up it won't resemble the excitement some of those pics brought. Hope they prove me wrong but the Mustang's initial concept was amzing looking and the final product is just ok imo.

The first 2 sets of drawings were never GM concepts. Some college kid did them up in a graphics program about a year and a half ago. I posted some of them about a year ago. It would be very nice for GM to bring back the Camaro, however I believe that the Camaro is dead forever. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see a worthwhile replacement based off a new chassis inspired by the Kappa cars. GM has a nasty habit of being inspired by the competition, when they should be the ones inspiring the competition. Hopefully Lutz and his Kappa cars signal a change in that direction.


Edit: I'm not yelling Repost or anything, it's been a year after all, and obviously many haven't seen the pictures.

AMEN to that! Don't worry about the repost thing...I thought someone else probably posted those here before...but I've never seen them and as you have seen alot of other people haven't seen them either.

GM would be stupid to allow the Mustang to take in all those sales without even making an effort to dent those sales. Gosh...they just gave up on the Camaro and allowed Ford to take the pony car war. What a shame...BOB LUTZ....HELP!!!!

Yeah, these are really old pictures. But, the designs are still awesome. I could see something produced using the C6 platform. GM needs to stop putting SS badges on trucks and SUVs and come out with some original products (the Solstice and Sky are cool, but are too nichy).
It is sickening how many Mustangs we all see out there, but you have to give Ford credit, they didn't stray very far from the concept. Bill Ford couldn't be happier, I'm sure. AND, when sales start to dwindle a bit, there will probably be different versions released, as well as a ton of aftermarket parts.
What I have a hard time understanding is that GM knew Ford was coming out with a new Mustang and did nothing (I suppose the GTO was a feeble attempt). It just makes sense that a new Camaro would do extraordinarily well, especially if they produce something close to any of those renditions. Sometimes you have to ignore the statistics and just take a chance...like Ford.
My guess is that they DO have something in the works and are keeping it hush hush until maybe the NAIAS. The time-line would be just about the same as the original release of the Mustang (1964) VS the Camaro (1967).

i think the camaro died due to uninspired styling, the older F bodies were pretty unappealing. These pony cars arnt about performance. Like 5-10% of all sales are the GT,ZZ,Z28 trims. They've got to get the styling right to appeal to their target audience, Casual drivers who wants a sporty looking car. I think this retro styling is a fad that will die down soon, If GM can come out with attractive and appealing styling (not necessarily retro), then its going to sell lots of cars. This segment really is all about looks. Once they get that right, they can throw in a detuned ls2 or whatever in a SS trim to please all 12 of us auto enthusiasts out there :p. I personally rather spend that kinda money on a used C6 vette or used C5 Z06.

I totally agree about the unisnpired styling. They just seemed like a big straight-line tire burner. The thing I like about these designs are that they are obviously an eloboration of the original Camaro but have some very modern lines present. It seems like these designs would lend themselves to a more performance oriented model. I don't get that impression from the new Mustang. If I saw that Z28 without ever seeing a '67, I'd still think it was an awesome car. The Motor Trend versions are IMO the most "production looking" designs, but I love the ass end of the green one.
The engines are all there. Obviously, the V-8s are covered. I could see a version of the in-line 5 from the Colorado/Canyon being the base engine...or the 3.5 from the G6 or even the 3.9 from the Impala....which all have adequate HP for a base enginie. Now, there just needs to be a higher up that will give a design team the go-ahead to make a concept.
I love sitting here speculating about this stuff.

Ok...uhhh...as someone else here already mentioned. A) Those pictures are old and B) most of them were done by students as part of a class project. Unfortunetly, I don't have any friends designing for GM right now. I have two friends designing cars for Ford but not GM. I'm sure they'll know someone though. I'll try and ask them about the future of the camaro.

Yes...but you forgot that some people (like me) need those back seats. I also was looking into a used Vette but I knew that if my wife and I were starting a family there is no way I could be driving a Vette (well...without being rich).

That's why (I agree with you about looks) they need (IF they build a new Camaro) to get it right...looks, V6 performance, quality, and interior comfort.

:rolleyes: Ugh, people like you need to realize that cars like this are NOT made to haul around the family on grocery runs. People like YOU could go buy a more family friendly car, like a Malibu or something, and leave the sports cars to people that know what they're made for. People like YOU are the reason the new Charger has four doors instead of two the way it should have been built.

Those pics are a few years old. They keep popping up though. I think I first saw them in an issue of Super Chevy about two years ago.

All that aside,I hope they do return to their senses and make a new Camaro. I don't think they should bother with the V6 though, let the V6 mustang have the oficiall chick car moniker.

LOL. And YOU own a what? ...uhhhhh, a four door four seat RX-8?

IMHO, I think this is just silly. Cars are not life. They're a great hobby, but they're not everything. I must be one of those people that you despise. I bought the 8 because it's a fun sports car with one of the "must haves" being 4 seats.
Why do you own a 4 door 4 seater 8?

I own a 4 door 4 seater RX8 because that's what it was designed as, and it wasn't a "re-imagining" of a classic design, like the new Charger. The RX8 was designed ground up as a 4 seater, with no previous heritage model to draw inspiration from, so that's cool. A 4 door 4 seater Charger is a bastardization of the name and heritage of the original. And IMHO, a new Camaro designed as a "family truckster" capable of hauling the snot nosed rugrats around would be a horrible thing. Why not just go back in time and kick the designer of the original Camaro in the balls and save the insult of a re-imagined Camaro?

Do you know how much crap you could haul in a 3rd or 4th gen F-body? In golf bag terms you could easily put 5 or 6 in there without touching the front seat. People-wise, you'd better be small if you're going in the back seats, really small. My driver's seat almost touched the rear seat, and that was with the seat back in a normal position.. If people like him (and I), continue to bring high performance 2+2's to market, I'm happy.

The Camaro has always had rear seats.

1st, the Camaro has ALWAYS BEEN...a 2+2 (wake up)
2nd, if you are putting seats back there...WHY DON'T YOU MAKE THEM USEFUL?
3rd, who the heck are you to tell me what type of car person I am and what I should be driving?

Most people have families and declaring that sports cars should only have 2 seats or made as RedRexNJ declares it should be made is as IG-NANT as it comes. They don't make cars for you...they make it to appeal to the broadest amount of people possible. 2 seaters have always been slower selling than every other car type so either stick to the Camaro heritage and make it a 2+2 (useful 2+2) or move on to a Vette.

I've been a sports car guy since I was way young and all of my cars have been 2+2's. I know most 2+2's are virtually useless (less the GTO and RX8) and in my "opinion" it's just stupid to put seats back there if you can't use them...it's a waste of space, weight, and comfort.

I got the RX8 because in the future I could drive around with 3 rug rats...teaching them how a sports car should be built (if it's a 2+2) and the ways of ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM. I have no use for a 2 seater but I wont compromise my love of the “sports car” because people LIKE YOU want to force me into it.

You might be in a minivan one day...but you will never see me driving one that's for sure.

A) I know and B) I know
It's still fun to speculate. Unfortunately, I too don't have any friends designing for GM right now. So, I'll be waiting on the edge of my seat for your report from your friends. :rolleyes:
AND when the Hell did this post turn in to a bash session? RedRexNJ, you are a tool. You obviously don't have any understanding about what goes into making a successful model of automobile. You can't target a niche when producing a car like the Camaro or Mustang or Charger or any other car you want to be a sales leader in your lineup. More than 80% of sales of the Mustang are V6 models. Sure, I would only buy one with a V8, but some people can't afford the high performance. SO, having an entry level car with a design very similar just makes sense. And the back seats are a necessity for the same reason. You aren't looking to sell these cars as a second vehicle, or to a successful, single, businessman/woman. You are looking to sell these cars to the average person as a daily driver. Get a clue.
And BTW, I got the RX8 instead of the 350Z or Crossfire (which I almost bought) because it had a back seat.

Yeah...me toooooooooo....

How much crap you could haul around in the latter day Camaros was what ultimately killed it. Size and weight, too much of both. Combine the actually quite large cargo capacity with the children only rear seats and instead of gaining appeal to small families you lose appeal by losing focus on what a musclecar should be. RedrexNJ has a point, sort of. Not every car made needs to be for the family. I'm probably not alone in thinking that a return to the roots of the musclecar would be best for any future Camaro. A mid to small sized car with big power.

As an aside, DC has been doing real well with car design lately I'll excuse the new Charger but I'll never buy one.

I'm not at all saying that the next Camaro should be a family car. But, an actual back seat is very important to have. It appeals to a much larger market, and, lets face it, Chevy won't bring the Camaro back unless they can hit a huge target. My dad had a '67 when I was a little kid, and it had a decent back seat. That was definitely not a typical family car, but it did the job until there were three of us kids. It still baffles me how the last generation of Camaro could be such a large vehicle and have a back seat like a 911.
And I agree, DC has done an outstanding job with their recent designs. It's too bad the Charger wasn't closer to the 2002 concept (which, inicidentally, had four doors). That was a cool design. Instead, we get the 300's red-headed step-brother.

You almost got a Crossfire? I should slap fire out of your ass! :p

Who is saying the Camaro should hold 5 people while being able to be your work truck?

My whole point is that if you are going to have back seats...why not make it useful? Why add weight and size to a car only for a symbolic rear seat setup? It's a stupid waste really...

The Camaro has always been a 2+2...so make it a useful 2+2 or else save me the weight, size, and space by adding useless rear seats. I'll tell you this...if the Camaro was a 2 seater I'll bet you they could only sell 1/3 of the Camaro's they could sell as a 2+2.

I'm trying to keep the Camaro close to it's roots...while it seems what some of you are suggesting is for it to become...what GM already has...the Vette.

Again...make the rear seats useful or leave them out all together!

Amen brotha

Hey, it handles ALMOST as well as the RX8, and I actually love the design. I could have leased it for $299/month which made it very attractive, especially when I 'm paying $432/month after putting $4000 down for my 8.
I had a burrito last night. I don't think you want to go near my ass.:eek:

AMEN! That's all we are saying...