The Return of the Camaro????
08-05-2005, 09:24 AM
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The Return of the Camaro????
Note: A friend emailed me this and some of these pictures are probably old but I thought I'd share them anyway. Per the write up...GM is not into the retro styling (happy to hear that) but instead wants something that is a modern (listen up Ford) interpretation of the Camaro. This new (if GM has the guts and does not water it down) Camaro needs to last them a long time so they want it to look very modern.
Personal opinion: I LOVE the butt of the green concept Camaro and the front of the red/black concept Camaro (not Yenko). If they build that and price it for 25K...the day my lovely 8 goes to heaven...I'm picking me up a Camaro. (that is...if the rear seats are useable) I see some Charger, vette, and viper like looks but again the green's butt and red/black (non-yenko) front would look SWEET
Speed-ER Doc...this might be your next car!!! :D ...and mine...lol
Here is the write up:
First Looks - 2007 Model Camaro
Keep in mind that all that all the photos on this page are Concepts for the 2007 Camaro and none represent what the finished 2007 Camaro will look like for certain.
PHR commissioned computer artist and animator Kris Horton to smooth out Pauwel's drawing (below). Horton added color, put realistic wheels and tires on and modeled it in diffuse natural light. The resemblance to the Opel Insignia is striking. Insiders say the base model will be a V6 RS and the performance version will have a 5.3-liter V8 (that's 327 cubic inches!) and be called SS. A year or two later, a more powerful Z28 performance model will follow on, perhaps with a 6-liter V-8.
We get our best idea of what the new-for-2007 Camaro will look like from the members of cheersandgears.com, a website of and for GM enthusiasts. This drawing by artist Chris Pauwels is said to be very close. Many members on the site have close connections to GM and give the rendering credence.
Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.
Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.
Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.
GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed. Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.
If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.
Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!
By: Branden Farthing
GM Inside News
Warning: Many pictures to follow...don't post until I'm done (please)
Update: Everyone butt Vectorwolf.... :p
Personal opinion: I LOVE the butt of the green concept Camaro and the front of the red/black concept Camaro (not Yenko). If they build that and price it for 25K...the day my lovely 8 goes to heaven...I'm picking me up a Camaro. (that is...if the rear seats are useable) I see some Charger, vette, and viper like looks but again the green's butt and red/black (non-yenko) front would look SWEET
Speed-ER Doc...this might be your next car!!! :D ...and mine...lol
Here is the write up:
The Return of The Camaro!
First Looks - 2007 Model Camaro
Keep in mind that all that all the photos on this page are Concepts for the 2007 Camaro and none represent what the finished 2007 Camaro will look like for certain.
PHR commissioned computer artist and animator Kris Horton to smooth out Pauwel's drawing (below). Horton added color, put realistic wheels and tires on and modeled it in diffuse natural light. The resemblance to the Opel Insignia is striking. Insiders say the base model will be a V6 RS and the performance version will have a 5.3-liter V8 (that's 327 cubic inches!) and be called SS. A year or two later, a more powerful Z28 performance model will follow on, perhaps with a 6-liter V-8.
We get our best idea of what the new-for-2007 Camaro will look like from the members of cheersandgears.com, a website of and for GM enthusiasts. This drawing by artist Chris Pauwels is said to be very close. Many members on the site have close connections to GM and give the rendering credence.
Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.
Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.
Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.
GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed. Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.
If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.
Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!
By: Branden Farthing
GM Inside News
Warning: Many pictures to follow...don't post until I'm done (please)
Update: Everyone butt Vectorwolf.... :p
Last edited by rx8wannahave; 08-05-2005 at 09:29 AM.
08-05-2005, 09:26 AM
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I've heard about this before, and I think it's a totally hot car. I mean, THAT is how you re-make a classic design (take note, Ford...). I'd definitely have mine in Green. :D
08-05-2005, 09:27 AM
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Last few...
Note: Motor Trend needs some people with passion and style...their concepts are the worst! I even didn't include one cause it was WAY CONSERVATIVE!
Note: Motor Trend needs some people with passion and style...their concepts are the worst! I even didn't include one cause it was WAY CONSERVATIVE!
08-05-2005, 09:35 AM
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Repost in my head. I can't remember the link, and no I'm not going to find it. What the hell was wrong with the 4th Gen. Camaro? Well, the body is considered archaic by now, but damn the SS was still able to keep up with the 03' Cobra thanks to its lighter weight. The bodystyle on these concepts are pretty good, but something needs to be done about the front fascia if you're going to go with these retro looks.
08-05-2005, 09:35 AM
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...I think it's a totally hot car. I mean, THAT is how you re-make a classic design (take note, Ford...). I'd definitely have mine in Green.
I LOVE that butt on the green one...ohhh mama!
08-05-2005, 09:59 AM
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I just looks like a Corvette with the front of the new Mustang :p
I don't think they'll make it handle that well, just my guess. If they do it decent they'll probably put some old tech on it like the leaf springs on the Corvette, which would make it handle decent for its segment. I don't expect the power to be questionable though.
I don't think they'll make it handle that well, just my guess. If they do it decent they'll probably put some old tech on it like the leaf springs on the Corvette, which would make it handle decent for its segment. I don't expect the power to be questionable though.
08-05-2005, 10:08 AM
#9
rear of the Green is HOT BUT the front is aweful...in fact the front of everyone of these pics is G-d aweful gouge my eyes out bad!
fix the front and u have one hellavu car (oh and don't f-up the interior either, like the mustang)
fix the front and u have one hellavu car (oh and don't f-up the interior either, like the mustang)
08-05-2005, 10:22 AM
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Yeah...now a days they can't do the butt of cars right, but in theses concept shots it seems they have trouble with the front.
But...with the green butt and red/black front...I'd take it!
But...with the green butt and red/black front...I'd take it!
08-05-2005, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Yeah...now a days they can't do the butt of cars right, but in theses concept shots it seems they have trouble with the front.
But...with the green butt and red/black front...I'd take it!
But...with the green butt and red/black front...I'd take it!
08-05-2005, 10:59 AM
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I could be wrong, but I thought GM cancelled work on the rear-drive platform that this new Camaro would have been built off of. What was the date your info came out? If it is real recent, then I could be wrong.
08-05-2005, 11:15 AM
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There are NHTSA rules
could be wrong, but I thought GM cancelled work on the rear-drive platform that this new Camaro
I received the email yesterday but I could not trace (didn't have the time) when this was posted. Apparently there is a webiste (or two) listed the writeup that might shed some light on this.
GM were fools when they killed the Camaro...they would be fools not to bring it back. The Mustang (while I like it) has always been a boxy sports car while the Camaro was more curvy so I hope they build it again.
This time, they better increase quality...make a better interior, and make it more comfortable in the rear. Personally I think alot of people are missing out (sports car guys with familes) on the space the RX8 provides and if such a light car could offer space in the back...then the next Camaro should be able to also.
I don't worry too much about power because I think GM's V8 will take care of that on it's own. Don't build it to fat...to soft or too unbalanced (while keeping it within the common man/woman) and they will have a smash hit. PLEASE....PLEASE, keep that green butt...it's so sexy! J-Lo like...lol
08-05-2005, 11:23 AM
#15
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Well, I'm glad I was not the only one who thought it was dead. I hope we are wrong...and GM does not punk out... 
Time to email Bob Lutz!!! :D
Time to email Bob Lutz!!! :D
08-05-2005, 03:40 PM
#16
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Current GM news: Zeta is still dead for production in North America, BUT still a go down under...
GM wants to find another platform (Sigma-lite, etc) to produce the rumored Camaro.
Apparently, the next gen GTO is a go for 2008...
*DISCLAIMER: Due to GM's uncertainty with all things performance-oriented, the details of this post could be obsolete in 5 minutes...
GM wants to find another platform (Sigma-lite, etc) to produce the rumored Camaro.
Apparently, the next gen GTO is a go for 2008...
*DISCLAIMER: Due to GM's uncertainty with all things performance-oriented, the details of this post could be obsolete in 5 minutes...
08-05-2005, 10:38 PM
#18
Senor Carnegrande
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Seeing as how the Mustang is selling out so quick (especially GT's), GM would have to be fairly dumb to just ignore this market segment. Part of the reason why they ditched the F bodies was because their contract in Canada was so unprofitable. They signed an agreement whereby any car called "Camaro" must be built there until 2007. So, they just quit building it. When 2007 rolls around, they are free to do as they wish. That's why there's so much secrecy, and why any talk of an affordable RWD coupe isn't being referred to by the name "Camaro".
The reason why the Camaro died is because A) the quality was even worse than the Mustang; and B) the V6 version was apparently worse than the V6 Mustang. You have to get the V6 version right because that's 80% of your sales right there. Without the big V8, you have to rely on the styling and amenities to appeal to the V6 demographic (secretaries, parents, fat chicks), and the Camaro just didn't cut it. Here's what they should do to insure success in a new Camaro:
* Make sure the interior is at least on par with the Mustang
* Make sure the exterior styling on the V6 model is appealing to females (the camaro was not)
* Don't worry about V6 HP too much, just make sure it runs smooth and reliable
* If they can incorporate RX-8 style rear doors that would help greatly with the V6 demographic
* Ride/handling should be on par with the Mustang. Independent rear suspension if possible.
I know the freestyle doors and rear suspension sound like a stretch, from a cost standpoint. But if they share enough parts with other GM platforms (Caddy, future GTO), the economies of scale might make it feasible.
For the V8 version it will be a lot easier to compete. Simply offer a 375 HP LS2 and T-56 transmission, as opposed to the Mustang's 300 HP and 5-speed, and a more aggressive body kit (ie, thnk of the V6 model as a regular RX-8, with the Z28 look being analogous to the Mazdaspeed RX-8). If/when the Camaro is released, 375 HP will be the magic number. Why? It's a 60+ higher than the Mustang, but 25 less than the Corvette. Kind of like they had all throughout the 90's.
The reason why the Camaro died is because A) the quality was even worse than the Mustang; and B) the V6 version was apparently worse than the V6 Mustang. You have to get the V6 version right because that's 80% of your sales right there. Without the big V8, you have to rely on the styling and amenities to appeal to the V6 demographic (secretaries, parents, fat chicks), and the Camaro just didn't cut it. Here's what they should do to insure success in a new Camaro:
* Make sure the interior is at least on par with the Mustang
* Make sure the exterior styling on the V6 model is appealing to females (the camaro was not)
* Don't worry about V6 HP too much, just make sure it runs smooth and reliable
* If they can incorporate RX-8 style rear doors that would help greatly with the V6 demographic
* Ride/handling should be on par with the Mustang. Independent rear suspension if possible.
I know the freestyle doors and rear suspension sound like a stretch, from a cost standpoint. But if they share enough parts with other GM platforms (Caddy, future GTO), the economies of scale might make it feasible.
For the V8 version it will be a lot easier to compete. Simply offer a 375 HP LS2 and T-56 transmission, as opposed to the Mustang's 300 HP and 5-speed, and a more aggressive body kit (ie, thnk of the V6 model as a regular RX-8, with the Z28 look being analogous to the Mazdaspeed RX-8). If/when the Camaro is released, 375 HP will be the magic number. Why? It's a 60+ higher than the Mustang, but 25 less than the Corvette. Kind of like they had all throughout the 90's.
08-05-2005, 11:06 PM
#19
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I think it would be a big mistake if the Camaro or Trans Am was not reborn. In recent years with the tuner craze many of the import guys are starting to gravitate towards the old LS1 cars. I think it would be prime time to introduce a new inexpensive V8 powered car to compete with the Mustang in the next year or two. Most car guys know Chevy destroys Ford when it comes to V8 power, it's just most of us can't afford a Vette nor do we care for the ho hum GTO.
I think if we don't see a new Camaro/Trans Am or even Supra in the next few years GM and Toyota will be missing out a nice opportunity.
I think if we don't see a new Camaro/Trans Am or even Supra in the next few years GM and Toyota will be missing out a nice opportunity.
Last edited by IkeWRX; 08-06-2005 at 12:12 AM.
08-06-2005, 07:15 AM
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LOL...just by this thread (while still a baby thread) I get the sense that alot of us where disapointed in GM when they gave up the F-cars.
I agree that GM has to be at a stage where you realize they can't build CRAP, it has to be at least "good" quality, "good" comfort, "good" rear space, and like already stated make the V6 version pertty "good" and they will overtake the Mustang.
Let's face it, while the new Mustang looks "nice" and with mods will look MEAN as heck...the V6 version is just so unsexy.
If the next Camaro (as I keep saying) has that green butt and a better ront end...oh mama, they will have a killer on their hands.
I agree that GM has to be at a stage where you realize they can't build CRAP, it has to be at least "good" quality, "good" comfort, "good" rear space, and like already stated make the V6 version pertty "good" and they will overtake the Mustang.
Let's face it, while the new Mustang looks "nice" and with mods will look MEAN as heck...the V6 version is just so unsexy.
If the next Camaro (as I keep saying) has that green butt and a better ront end...oh mama, they will have a killer on their hands.
08-06-2005, 11:18 PM
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GM don't be stupid! If you build it they will come. Don't move to far away from the concept. It looks like they have a good thing going. It would be nice to see Chevy rejoin the party.
08-07-2005, 05:07 PM
#25
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http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102918
A CTS chassis based Camaro would be a good place to start.
A CTS chassis based Camaro would be a good place to start.