Renesis in an RX-7
01-13-2005, 05:36 PM
#1
Renesis in an RX-7
I've got a buddy putting a Renesis in an 1984 RX-7 GSL-SE (brand new engine with 3mm Apex seals, 6 speed tranny, & custom made carbon fiber drive shaft)
It sounded like an interesting project ... was wondering if anyone else here had done or heard of something similar, and opinions of how something like this might turn out
Jeff
It sounded like an interesting project ... was wondering if anyone else here had done or heard of something similar, and opinions of how something like this might turn out
Jeff
01-13-2005, 05:55 PM
#4
Administrator
cause its more pwerful than the engine he had and less money than getting a whole new car. plus the job of doing it sounds like alot of fun. tell him to get it ported while its apart for the apex seals. whats he using for engine management? probably a motec right?
01-13-2005, 06:03 PM
#5
Administrator
Originally Posted by therm8
Sounds great. With some porting and appropriate alternator etc, and a standalone ems, rev that sucker to 11 or 12k rpm 
01-13-2005, 07:35 PM
#7
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by zoom44
well the engine cant breathe much past 9500 anyway. in this situation if you wanted to increase the revs you'd need more air which would mean a whole new intake manifold. actually come to think of it- is he just getting a bare block or is it fully dressed? without everything to run the SDAIS (the elctronic and vacuum "switches") how would you "tune" the airflow to make the same power as it is in the rx8? interesting project....
Originally Posted by rotten42
why?
01-13-2005, 09:26 PM
#8
no more 8
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well he is going with the 3mm seals...that somewhat of an improvement isn't it. just changes the compression a little bit i beleive...i might be wrong though.
01-14-2005, 03:23 AM
#10
Originally Posted by N5TEV
I've got a buddy putting a Renesis in an 1984 RX-7 GSL-SE (brand new engine with 3mm Apex seals, 6 speed tranny, & custom made carbon fiber drive shaft)
01-14-2005, 08:31 AM
#11
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I've heard about someone swapping in a 13B-MSP into an older RX-7. It'll work, but there are some things that need to solved internally. Don't you have to clearance the engine a bit to allow 3mm apex seals? Also, what type of material are you looking into? Cast iron, or exotic ceramic? I think it would be a neat project that I would love to get involved with. I wonder how much better the engine would perform if you coated the rotors with Cermet.
As for the transmission, why not try to get away in a TII transmission? Maybe the gearing might be better suited for the RX-7, but I'm not sure.
As for Chuck's concern, eliminating the S-DAIS would pose a power delivery problem, since they're tuned to run at certain engine speeds. I was given the idea a few months ago about using a longer intake runner if you're going to work with forced induction, so perhaps a short one might be in order. I'm not sure. Keep this thread open for the next few months, because I'm going to pick up some serious stuff when I start taking fluid mechanics. :D
As for the transmission, why not try to get away in a TII transmission? Maybe the gearing might be better suited for the RX-7, but I'm not sure.
As for Chuck's concern, eliminating the S-DAIS would pose a power delivery problem, since they're tuned to run at certain engine speeds. I was given the idea a few months ago about using a longer intake runner if you're going to work with forced induction, so perhaps a short one might be in order. I'm not sure. Keep this thread open for the next few months, because I'm going to pick up some serious stuff when I start taking fluid mechanics. :D
Last edited by shelleys_man_06; 01-14-2005 at 08:35 AM.
01-14-2005, 04:11 PM
#12
LOL - I seemed to have started something here! When I showed my buddy the responses here, it definitely got his attention! 
Before he can get around to register or log in here himslef, he gave me something to post on his behalf (he's got his hands full right now with stuff)
(I hope posting for a friend won't break any forum rules, and I'm only going to do this for him once :D )
Before he can get around to register or log in here himslef, he gave me something to post on his behalf (he's got his hands full right now with stuff)
(I hope posting for a friend won't break any forum rules, and I'm only going to do this for him once :D )
"I would just tell them when they ask "why?"
#1 It is a project for my enjoyment!
#2 Same power without the weight and extras of an RX-8!
#3 I don't have the money for an RX-8
#4 I am not particularly fond of the RX-8 body style.. Personal Pref.
#5 I need somthing to do with spare time instead of being Idle
#6 2600 pound car with a 280HP Rotary Engine Normaly Aspirated 6 Speed Tranny.. What
can I say?
#7 I wan't the best of the guts of an RX-8 with the look and design of a 1st Gen RX-7.
#8 solid axle rear end, no independant suspension which is better for cornering
according to autocrossers I have talked to.
#9 1st Gen RX-7 = Classic race car styling and look!
#10 More Power, More Power, More Power!
BTW, I am getting an
"A’PEXi SuperAFC" ECU
--Maybe a mild street port and polish, headers and a 2" downpipe into the stock 3 cats 2 pre and 1 main converter then out threw a cat back exhaust system.... I have to for emission's sake :-/ not the best set-up but it will do.
"Oh and no mistaking it, when I bought the engine, I bought it with the intent to assemble the engine; housings, rotors, with side seals Apex seals..etc gasket set included... the whole project is expected to take awhile but when I am done.... I will reflect on the changes made, wait 500 Miles for break in period, let her rev to her hearts desire!!
I am looking at $10,000 Maximum! half the price of a base RX-8 but also without the bells and whistles of one too :-/ I guess you have to take the good with the bad. I started this project because I wanted somthing unique to me and my tastes. I have always been a fan of the RX-7 especially the First Gen. years, March'78- December'85. Parts are hard to come by these days for the stock '84-85 SE 135HP 13B. So I am upgrading it so it is easier to find parts for the engine and so on. To take maximum potential of the engine I am putting in the 6 Speed Tranny but the stock "SE" drive shaft will not bolt up to the tranny, so I am having to get a custom drive shaft made so I can mary up the tranny to the "SE"'s LSD.
Just a good 'ol harty project for the true bored person!
Constructive comments only please."
Jeff
#1 It is a project for my enjoyment!
#2 Same power without the weight and extras of an RX-8!
#3 I don't have the money for an RX-8
#4 I am not particularly fond of the RX-8 body style.. Personal Pref.
#5 I need somthing to do with spare time instead of being Idle
#6 2600 pound car with a 280HP Rotary Engine Normaly Aspirated 6 Speed Tranny.. What
can I say?
#7 I wan't the best of the guts of an RX-8 with the look and design of a 1st Gen RX-7.
#8 solid axle rear end, no independant suspension which is better for cornering
according to autocrossers I have talked to.
#9 1st Gen RX-7 = Classic race car styling and look!
#10 More Power, More Power, More Power!
BTW, I am getting an
"A’PEXi SuperAFC" ECU
--Maybe a mild street port and polish, headers and a 2" downpipe into the stock 3 cats 2 pre and 1 main converter then out threw a cat back exhaust system.... I have to for emission's sake :-/ not the best set-up but it will do.
"Oh and no mistaking it, when I bought the engine, I bought it with the intent to assemble the engine; housings, rotors, with side seals Apex seals..etc gasket set included... the whole project is expected to take awhile but when I am done.... I will reflect on the changes made, wait 500 Miles for break in period, let her rev to her hearts desire!!
I am looking at $10,000 Maximum! half the price of a base RX-8 but also without the bells and whistles of one too :-/ I guess you have to take the good with the bad. I started this project because I wanted somthing unique to me and my tastes. I have always been a fan of the RX-7 especially the First Gen. years, March'78- December'85. Parts are hard to come by these days for the stock '84-85 SE 135HP 13B. So I am upgrading it so it is easier to find parts for the engine and so on. To take maximum potential of the engine I am putting in the 6 Speed Tranny but the stock "SE" drive shaft will not bolt up to the tranny, so I am having to get a custom drive shaft made so I can mary up the tranny to the "SE"'s LSD.
Just a good 'ol harty project for the true bored person!
Constructive comments only please."
01-14-2005, 04:20 PM
#13
Mentalhealth is overrated
Originally Posted by zoom44
cause its more pwerful than the engine he had and less money than getting a whole new car. plus the job of doing it sounds like alot of fun. tell him to get it ported while its apart for the apex seals. whats he using for engine management? probably a motec right?
aren't there a ton of mods available for that car that would be less expensie to mod and old engine over a new Renesis?
01-15-2005, 12:26 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by zoom44
^ and keep it NA? no not really.
01-15-2005, 12:32 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by m477
what, don't tell me you're actually against having a 4,000rpm idle?? Don't worry, once your eardrums rupture from revving up the engine a few times you won't even notice it anymore!
01-16-2005, 03:59 PM
#17
it's been done already, I saw one somewhere, they even used the RX-8 gauge cluster
one question, why 3 mm apex seals? They don't seal as well, they are not very fond of high revs and don't provide any advantage on naturally aspirated cars. Some even argue if they provide any benefit on boosted rotaries as they'll break the same with a good knock. There are many high boost cars with 2-mm seals, it's all in the tuning.
one question, why 3 mm apex seals? They don't seal as well, they are not very fond of high revs and don't provide any advantage on naturally aspirated cars. Some even argue if they provide any benefit on boosted rotaries as they'll break the same with a good knock. There are many high boost cars with 2-mm seals, it's all in the tuning.
01-16-2005, 05:12 PM
#18
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Also consider one of the things that makes the NA 13B-MSP's hp rating around 238 +/- is all the arcane engine electronics. The Apex'i SuperAFC alone will not help you control the complex intake system, to say the least. Unless yo go with a standalone ECU that has a good handful of switched and pulse-width outputs to control all those extra solenoids, you're going to have to acquire the RX-8's actual ecu, wiring loom, sensors, etc.etc.etc. Even then it might be a labour of love just trying to get it all to work correctly.
Otherwise, if you're just using the MSP block with a custom cable / throttle body assembly or an intake manifold from the earlier rotaries, your end result probably won't be significantly better than that of using a standard 13B.
Otherwise, if you're just using the MSP block with a custom cable / throttle body assembly or an intake manifold from the earlier rotaries, your end result probably won't be significantly better than that of using a standard 13B.
01-17-2005, 12:25 AM
#19
Originally Posted by GiN
Otherwise, if you're just using the MSP block with a custom cable / throttle body assembly or an intake manifold from the earlier rotaries, your end result probably won't be significantly better than that of using a standard 13B.
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