Put 22's on the Cayenne...PICS
07-12-2006, 07:16 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by dragula53
uhh.. exactly? the fact that porsche has made a car that has the same basic styling cues for 58 years (or hell, call it 42 years if you insist that the 356 isn't similar enough for your liking) that doesn't really have any bearing on whether the cayenne is a real porsche or a good SUV.
And since you want to keep arguing this nebulous point, I'll address the other two arguments that you made just to keep it interesting... points I originally ignored, but since you want to make an issue of something as simple as whether or not the 356 or its virtual twin, the 911 (buuuuwaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!), has been in production for 60 years:
Originally Posted by dragula53
From what I understand the only complaint anybody has about the Cayenne (other than the crap about how it isn't "really" a porsche and too-stiff suspension. pansies.) is that it's stock tires are not suited for offroad use.
Originally Posted by dragula53
The rx-8's stock tires aren't well suited for on-road use.
07-12-2006, 07:40 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by dragula53
the point of the post was about how calling the cayenne "not a porsche" is unfair and silly.
07-12-2006, 07:40 PM
#54
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1) similarities. I can look at the 356 and automatically know it is a porsche and I can see a lot of it in the 911. You are a much bigger porschephile than me, and if you really insist, I'm willing to cater to your insistence that it is NOTHING like the 911, and call it 42 years.
2) styling is subjective. calling it ugly is not a good way to judge anything. A lot of people think the RX-8 is ugly. wasn't it number 2 on some magazine's ugliest list? next to the aztek? I happen to disagree, but I use that example to make a point about the subjective nature of calling something ugly.
3) price. it's a porsche. and also the fastest suv on the planet. $111k for a 520 horsepower Cayenne. A porsche 911 Carrera S is $97k (with 355 horsepower). That's not overpriced at all!
The cayenne also pulls a .85 in the skidpad, almost unheard of for any suv ever.
4) rx-8 tires. they suck, are unreasonable in the rain, and unusable in the snow. There are plenty of cars that pull equal or better skid pad numbers in the same price range and also are equal or faster in the slalom.
2) styling is subjective. calling it ugly is not a good way to judge anything. A lot of people think the RX-8 is ugly. wasn't it number 2 on some magazine's ugliest list? next to the aztek? I happen to disagree, but I use that example to make a point about the subjective nature of calling something ugly.
3) price. it's a porsche. and also the fastest suv on the planet. $111k for a 520 horsepower Cayenne. A porsche 911 Carrera S is $97k (with 355 horsepower). That's not overpriced at all!
The cayenne also pulls a .85 in the skidpad, almost unheard of for any suv ever.
4) rx-8 tires. they suck, are unreasonable in the rain, and unusable in the snow. There are plenty of cars that pull equal or better skid pad numbers in the same price range and also are equal or faster in the slalom.
Last edited by dragula53; 07-12-2006 at 07:56 PM.
07-12-2006, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dragula53
4) rx-8 tires. they suck, are unreasonable in the rain, and unusable in the snow. There are plenty of cars that pull equal or better skid pad numbers in the same price range and also are equal or faster in the slalom.
Styling. I know the RX-8 isn't the best-looking car on the road... I've even made this point on this very website. It has a quirky charm that I like, but I do recognize that it is subject to considerable criticism... As is the Cayenne, and deservedly so (though opposite ends of the car are annoyingly funky, the front of the Cayenne and the rear of the RX-8). You aren't telling me anything new... Or "pwning" me, if that was your intent.
Rain. I have owned, driven, and experienced far worse rain performance on other brands of rubber than the Dunlops that came on my car. I happily cruised at 75mph in a driving rainstorm on I-80 with no traction issues. None.
Snow. Name one.... ONE "summer performance tire" that is usable in the snow. There is a reason they're called "summer performance tires".
Skidpad/slalom. Please, if you will, list these "plenty" of cars that exceed its performance in skidpad and are equal or faster in the slalom.
Here, I'll help you out (yes, I'm bored and have nothing better to do). The only data panel I have available to me at short notice is the June '06 issue of R&T. Here are ALL the cars that equal or better the RX-8 on the skidpad AND equal or better its slalom speed, that are under $60k dollars (twice the going rate of an RX-8, way different than your "same price range" comment) as-tested as per their data:
Corvette Coupe
S2000
Elise
Exige
SLK350
Lancer EVO
Hmmm.... Five two-seaters and one sedan. The only ones of these that are even slightly competitive on price are the S2000 (2 seats, no roof) and the EVO (more seats, and rides like an ox cart to get those numbers).
By "plenty of cars", did you in fact mean TWO? Just wondering.
Throw in braking performance from 80mph and 60mph, the RX-8, all on those crappy tires you tell us about, equals or beats every one of them except one:
Exige.
In fact, the Exige has the shortest 60-0 braking of all the cars tested (tied with the Ferrari F430, M-B SLR McLaren, Aston V8 Vantage, and Porsche Boxster S), and it beats the RX-8 by five feet. The best-braking roadworthy car they've ever tested beat the RX-8 by five feet, all on those tires that are totally useless. For the record, the remaining street-legal cars that out-brake or equal the RX-8 are the Maserati Quattroporte, BMW Z4 3.0i, Corvette Z06, Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Gallardo, Panoz LMP-1 Roadster S, Cayman S, & 911 Carrera S... Only one within $15k of the RX-8, most much, MUCH more).
So... The only car that costs under 60grand that can simultaneously outbrake, out-slalom, and out-skidpad the RX-8 (all on the HOPELESS stock tires) is the Lotus Exige, which by any imaginable gauge is a limited-production car (delivery volumes in the USA measured in the hundreds, not the thousands) usable only as a toy... And for the price of an Exige I could have a loaded-up RX-8GT AND a Mazda6S or a Miata, depending upon whether my second car would be a 4-door or a convertible.
Amazing. I guess I should throw out my tires, as they "suck".
Last edited by DrDiaboloco; 07-12-2006 at 08:42 PM.
07-13-2006, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by limepro
your neighborhood looks like the 1's in fresno built by our competitors
07-13-2006, 05:24 PM
#59
Originally Posted by dragula53
1) similarities. I can look at the 356 and automatically know it is a porsche and I can see a lot of it in the 911. You are a much bigger porschephile than me, and if you really insist, I'm willing to cater to your insistence that it is NOTHING like the 911, and call it 42 years.
2) styling is subjective. calling it ugly is not a good way to judge anything. A lot of people think the RX-8 is ugly. wasn't it number 2 on some magazine's ugliest list? next to the aztek? I happen to disagree, but I use that example to make a point about the subjective nature of calling something ugly.
3) price. it's a porsche. and also the fastest suv on the planet. $111k for a 520 horsepower Cayenne. A porsche 911 Carrera S is $97k (with 355 horsepower). That's not overpriced at all!
The cayenne also pulls a .85 in the skidpad, almost unheard of for any suv ever.
4) rx-8 tires. they suck, are unreasonable in the rain, and unusable in the snow. There are plenty of cars that pull equal or better skid pad numbers in the same price range and also are equal or faster in the slalom.
2) styling is subjective. calling it ugly is not a good way to judge anything. A lot of people think the RX-8 is ugly. wasn't it number 2 on some magazine's ugliest list? next to the aztek? I happen to disagree, but I use that example to make a point about the subjective nature of calling something ugly.
3) price. it's a porsche. and also the fastest suv on the planet. $111k for a 520 horsepower Cayenne. A porsche 911 Carrera S is $97k (with 355 horsepower). That's not overpriced at all!
The cayenne also pulls a .85 in the skidpad, almost unheard of for any suv ever.
4) rx-8 tires. they suck, are unreasonable in the rain, and unusable in the snow. There are plenty of cars that pull equal or better skid pad numbers in the same price range and also are equal or faster in the slalom.
07-13-2006, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SayNoToPistons
FYI the FX45 and FX35 (stock) pulls .935g on the skidpad which totally eclipses the cayanne so its not "unheard of"... the BMW x5 pulls .829 which is close to the cayanne
More importantly... How do the FX45 AND the FX35 BOTH do .93-.94 on the skidpad? The FX45 has larger wheels and wider, lower-profile tires and logically would generate better numbers (not equal) than the FX35.
Not to mention that I've never seen numbers even close to this anyway, and the only test I know of that tests the FX45 and the Cayenne together show that they are dead even on a skidpad (Car and Driver)... At .85g. There is a HUGE difference between .85 and .935. The best I've ever seen an FX do doesn't even break the .90 barrier.
Could you supply your source for these numbers?
08-26-2006, 05:06 PM
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Well Shaolin, I wood feel lucky to have your "fake" Porsche anyday. It looks great. I also love real sports cars like the RX-8 and the 911, but want a small SUV for the space. A CX-7 is right up my alley, although I have been having second thoughts due to the high boost turbo engine. I need a car that goes well past 100K miles with no major repairs, but that is another topic.
Bottom line, companies make what sells. I would sell dog s*** in a bag with my name on it if people wanted it.
Bottom line, companies make what sells. I would sell dog s*** in a bag with my name on it if people wanted it.
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