AirlockRX

I think that all Pontiacs look like Koi.

Rhawb

I was actually more impressed with the Solstice in person than I was the Sky. From pictures online, I've always liked the Sky a whole lot more, but after seeing the two in person, it's a whole lot closer. I like the Solstice more than I thought I would and I like the Sky less than I thought I would. If I was choosing between the two for my next car, it'd be a hard fought battle.

Ike

A little dose of reality to those saying the MX-5 is better in every way.

Take From Grassroots Motorsports:

"Did a head-to-head Autocross run-off between a new Miata, a Solstice and a '99 Miata that competes on the national level in SCCA C-Stock class (equipped with aftermarket shocks and swaybars). The new Miata and Solstice were bone stock except for competition alignments, and all three cars ran on new Hoosier R-compounds.

One would have expected that with the same HP and 350 extra lbs, the Solstice would have had its butt handed to it. One would have been wrong. On a sub-40 second course, the Solstice averaged only 0.2 seconds behind the well-prepared '99 Miata, and almost 0.8 seconds ahead of the new Miata, which is a lifetime on a course like that. The test drivers all remarked about how easy it was to get into the Pontiac and be *very* fast the first time out, in contrast to the new Miata, which they thought needed a graduate course in body control.

None of them liked the Ecotech, though."

tazzydnc

After having seen a couple of the solstice's in person, I'm really not that impressed. I dont know why people think they are so good looking. It has some nice lines but it looks like a warthog from the front.

The new miata's design is uninspired but it certainly doesnt look bad. Girly? Yes. Ugly? No.

The Soltice will probably be more of a hit with all the advertising Pontiac is doing but it doesn't have the cult following of the miata and probably never will. Knocking the mazda off its throne will take a lot, and I really dont think this pontiac has it.

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

I liked the previous generation of Miatas much better. But I also liked the Solstice Concept better than the production version as well.

BaronVonBigmeat

Hmm, I guess Mazda is setting up sways/springs a bit mushy on their newer cars then. 350 lbs. really ought to make a big difference in two cars making nearly the same power. A lightly modded (sways) NC would probably do better than a Solstice with the same money spent I would imagine, but I guess time will tell...

tazzydnc

maybe they were able to squeeze in a 350lb driver into the miata to make up the difference :/

Detrich

ok, i saw a new, black Saturn Sky yesterday... and, again, all i could say as it rolled by me was, wow, that is one sexy car. i agree that in some ways it looks better than the Solstice. the rear tail-lights look nicer and the front grill is more import-looking, as opposed to the traditional pontiac honeycomb. but, wow. that thing really turns some heads. i will have to go test drive one. hopefully, the handling will suck so i won't be tempted to trade in my beamer for one. <lol>

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i have to agree... it is a sexy, sexy bitch.... the pontiac is hot but need a nose job.... the sky... just works...

saw one in naples fl this weekend.... but in reality... they are selling and are going to be 5k over retail.... and have 177hp 4cyl......

but a year from now it will be my second car... sexy is good...

jmoicbw..

beers

Jamg

oo I saw one of these yesterday. What surprised by seeing something different looking on the road. Nothing then that, I didn't pay too much attention.

Red Devil

A friend of mine has a white Solstice. It's a lot nicer than I expected. They already have turbo kits available for the Solstice in the 4K range that give the cars 250whp so there is definitely going to be a market for these besides the high end Mallett offerings.

crisis

Until either the Solistice or the Sky get some type of hard top even if it's a removable hard top like a del sol or Elise I wouldn't even consider them. I HATE convertables and the look of canvas top.

I also saw Motor trend compare the MX-5 to the solistice. They basically said if you want a cool looking car thats more fun than a sedan get the solistice. If you want a drivers car and performance get the MX-5. Their point was they 2 cars a geared towards different audiences so comparing the 2 isn't really fair.

DrDiaboloco

For years, "The Saturn Way" was the no-dicker-sticker... The price on the window is the price you pay. Have they done away with that, are will they when they finally have a REALLY hot seller that everyone wants?

Over at Pontiac they can do whatever they want, but I wonder what's going on at the touchy-feely Saturn shoppe.

DrDiaboloco

Which auto journalists are those that say "it's not even close"?

Car and Driver calls it a "photo finish", giving the nod to the MX-5 a virtual tie.

Automobile gives the nod to the Solstice in a virtual tie.

Road and Track gives the nod to the the MX-5 in a virtual tie.

I don't read Motor Trend so I can't comment on them.

I'm not sure why it is that you want to believe that the MX-5 walks all over the Solstice, but your assertion that "it's not even close" is totally without merit. I'd say that it is at LEAST half as good as it looks. Maybe even 84% as good as it looks. According to at least one review I've read, the Sky is even better... And all this before the hot rod models hit the market.

I have no horse in this race as both cars are too small for me to own as anything other than a toy, but I for one get a bit of a warm fuzzy feeling that GM has built a car of this caliber. If only they could get their mainstream cars to be as good as the Solstice/Sky, Corvette and their pickups/SUV's. GM doesn't make a single automobile with more than two seats that I'd want to stick in my garage.

therm8

From what I've read on the Solstice forums, GM keeps a hand in the Solstice/Sky pricing to keep the price normal, and prevent gouging. I don't know if it's true, but the few Solstices I've seen on the lots here were going for MSRP.

New Yorker

Top Gear (Clarkson)…
"This month, I have mostly been picking bits of banana pie from out of my nose, but there has also been time to drive down the Pacific Coast Highway in one of the new Pontiac Solstice two-seater rag-tops. The car was ghastly, as you'd expect from a country that hasn't produced a sports car since the Crosley Hot Shot in 1952. But the road was something else…"


Sports Car International (Jay Lamm)…
• "That's because the Pontiac isn't a sports car—it's something entirely different. Oh sure, I can understand the confusion: Since the Solstice is cramped, horribly laid out and badly assembled, it's easy to make that mistake. But if you approach this thing wanting the lithe, responsive, animal sensation that sports cars are all about, you're in for a disappointment."

• "Unfortunately, being an important car and being a good car are two different things. And, as much as we all wanted this story to end differently, the Solstice is just not a very good car."

• "Where things fall apart is the execution. The all-aluminum, 2.4-liter, 177-hourse four is buzzy and grudging. There's a hard-rubber-coated feeling to all the controls, as though everything's carved out of handballs. The shifter doesn't snick into gear, it bumps there. The clutch and brake pedals don't spring, they just sort of give way. The steering, while accurate and predictable, is dead-feeling and heavy. If not for the thrash of the oversized Ecotec engine, you'd think you were driving a late-model Camaro.
And that, in fact, is the secret that might save the Solstice yet. Once you abandon all hope of Miata-like sparkle and try beating the heck out of this car like a Corvette or Mustang, things start to work themselves out. Sports cars are all about involvement, attention and a cooperation between car and driver. Muscle cars are about results attained laughably, cheaply and easily—you ask a sports car, but you tell a muscle car. So let's review: Rough, cheap, made out of leftover parts, all about the looks… That's either a muscle car or Angelina Jolie, and I don't see Brad Pitt hanging around anywhere."

• "The real irony here is that the Solstice was created to symbolize a new start for GM—to be physical proof that the giant now sees the error of its ways. But for now, anyway, it actually showcases how Gulliver got himself tied down in the first place: A bred-in-the-bone refusal to just step in, suck it up and do a car right for the sheer sake of doing it. What GM still doesn't seem to acknowledge is that it's not just about boring designs; it's about the self-defeating meanness and half-assedness that seem to pervade every product it makes. The Solstice doesn't just say, "We're GM, and this is the kind of exciting car we can build." It also says, "We're GM, and even our mea culpa's dash gets the same awful plastic that RCA uses on TV sets.""


edmunds.com comparison test…
• "Check the stats and the similar performance numbers of these two cars, and you'd expect this test to be a dead lock, maybe even a squeak-out win for the Pontiac. Didn't happen, the Miata walked away with this one."

• "Don't get us wrong, we like the Solstice. In fact, if the Pontiac was competing with a 2005 Miata we're pretty sure it would have come out on top. But this new Miata, or MX-5, or whatever Mazda is calling it, is really something. Its interior is better finished than the Pontiac's, its performance is a bit better and it's the better convertible, with superior wind protection for its passengers and a far superior top design."

• "But the biggest reason the Miata took this one is the simple fact that it's 10 billion times more fun to drive. It's more responsive. Its engine is livelier and its gearbox feels like it was plucked from a shifter kart. It also has more steering feel, and it stops better. The Pontiac, although fast, just doesn't offer the same connection to the machine. It feels distant, more like a boulevard star than a true two-seat sports car. Well, in our world, these roadsters are supposed to be true sports cars. And sports cars are supposed to be fun. The more fun the better. And cars just don't get any more fun than the 2006 Mazda MX-5 Miata."

• "Well, the 2006 Pontiac Solstice put up a good fight, but you can add it to the list of the Miata's fallen foes."

• "When you drive the Mazda, it becomes obvious that every aspect of the car was designed and engineered by people who love cars and love to drive. You can tell they told the bean counters, the suits and all the other stuffed shirts how it was going to be and not the other way around. This is rare in the car business, and the results speak for themselves."

• "Push it hard and the Solstice has one cornering attitude, it understeers. Regardless of what the driver does, the Pontiac's huge 18-inch rear tires refuse to give up their grip of the road. This makes for quick slalom times, and it's the way you want your mom's car set up, but it quickly bores the advanced driver.

The Miata, on the other hand, offers an infinite number of cornering attitudes to choose from. And it allows the advanced driver to adjust and choose between those attitudes at any time through his skillful use of the steering, brakes and throttle. In other words, although the big-tired Pontiac can match the Miata's slalom and lap times, the Mazda handles more like a real sports car."

• "Hop in the Solstice after driving the Mazda Miata and the Pontiac's extra bulk, vague controls and unresponsive handling simply detract too much from the purity of the drive. It's a smile maker for sure, but the Miata gets you grinning from ear to ear."

• "For my personal tastes, a Miata/MX-5 still does the Dance of the Sporting Roadster better, and its poise and balance and attitude and control feel are more like what I want in a basic sports car. But congratulations to Pontiac and to Bob Lutz, the Solstice's champion inside GM, for creating a car that is not an embarrassment for them nor a disappointment for us. It's a viable roadster, and we're pleased."

• "I don't find their recipe for fun appealing, but there are plenty that do. For those people, I'd recommend the Miata. The steering is better, the brakes are more powerful and the gearbox nearly perfect. With its more tightly spaced gearing the 170hp engine feels stronger and its sounds better than the Pontiac too. On the racetrack it wasn't even close. The Miata attacked while the Solstice just hung on the best it could. Then there's the properly finished interior that has usable cupholders, an upscale look and the world's best manually folding top.

• "The Solstice isn't bad, it's just not nearly as good. It feels bigger, slower and more like a cruiser. Its shifter is vague and the steering a little numb. With so much grip it can be thrown around easily, but the engine is no match for the chassis. When you're not going all out it suffers from excessive wind shear that makes your face numb after a few miles. Then there are the little things like the clunky looking top and lack of storage space.
I could think of a lot of other cars I would buy for $25K, but if it had to be a roadster Mazda would get my cash."


Consumer Reports…
SPORTY CARS: The Mazda Miata and Volkswagen GTI top the charts, while the Pontiac Solstice disappoints

• "The Pontiac Solstice, along with its twin, the Saturn Sky, is the much-anticipated roadster that General Motors hopes will bring some affordable flash to its lineup. But we found that it doesn't match up to the redesigned Mazda MX-5 Miata."

• "The Pontiac Solstice has sleek looks but is disappointing as a sports car… The Solstice handles well with controlled body lean. But it is some 400 pounds heavier than the Miata and not nearly as nimble."

Sorry.

therm8

None of those say anything about "not even close" performance wise. Your Clarkson quote doesn't mention performance at all...

Just like every other review, they tout the Mx-5 as feeling better, and feeling more nimble. Well, it is 400lbs lighter. I bet the Mx-5 feels like a Buick when compared to an Elise. Every review says that both handle comparably. And Ike's GRM quote backs that up.

I've got no problem with people being biased one way or the other. But at least be honest about it.

DrDiaboloco

I'm not sorry. You haven't shown that "most" reviewers say that the Solstice "isn't even close" to the MX-5. I knew about the Edmunds review, but the SCI review was a new one to me.

I AM sorry, however, that you chose Consumer Reports for an auto review. Use them for reliability data, sure, but to review a sports car? I discount this one out of hand.

I do love that you don't recognize the comical bias in the Top Gear review, the one that claims the USA hasn't produced a sports car since 1952. I guess they've never heard of the Corvette, the most famous of a long list of sports cars that have been produced in the USA in the last 54 years. Wow, THERE'S a stunner from a British car magazine.

So, for the Solstice... On the "plus" side, 1 win (Automobile), 2 losses by photo-finish (C&D, R&T), 1 that shows the Solstice as superior on an autocross course (Grassroots). On the "minus" side 2 negative reviews that don't have ridiculous bias stamped all over it (Edmunds), 1 negative review that read like the reviewer has nothing but derision for everything this country has produced since the Korean War (Top Gear).

So... Where was this majority again? Even if you include the CR review (which any auto enthusiast wouldn't), you don't have a majority but a tie.

Sorry.

I'm sure you'll keep digging to find all the negative reviews of the car... Let's see how many other sources you need to sift through, though you must be pretty near the end to stoop to adding CONSUMER FREAKING REPORTS. Of course I could keep digging to find a positive review to add counterpoint to your increasingly obscure references, but my point is made and I'll just enjoy it when you add the Good Housekeeping review as "proof" of your point.

I'll just remind you that I never said the Solstice was superior, just that it isn't a total walkover as reported by the "majority" of the press.

New Yorker

"…the Miata walked away with this one."

"But the biggest reason the Miata took this one is the simple fact that it's 10 billion times more fun to drive."

"On the racetrack it wasn't even close. The Miata attacked while the Solstice just hung on the best it could."

"The Solstice isn't bad, it's just not nearly as good."

"…we found that it doesn't match up to the redesigned Mazda MX-5 Miata."

Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking?!?

Oh, and here's one I left out, "performance wise"…

"It also gave the less powerful and lighter Miata bragging rights at the drag strip, where it sprinted from zero to 60 mph in 7.5 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 15.5 seconds at 89 mph. Both performances are better than the Solstice can manage.

Throw in the fact that the Miata's engine sounds better, is smoother and out-sprints the Solstice through a lighter clutch, and it's clear which car's drivetrain we prefer."

Is that honest enough for you?

DrDiaboloco

Nope. Apparently you don't notice that half of your quotes don't say that the MX-5 trounces the Solstice, just that it's better. The difference between "better" and "not even close" continues to elude you.

But hey, you're welcome to your own bias. I (we) still don't know what you have against the Solstice... At least the Top Gear reviewer is wearing his bias on his sleeve, which is of course the hallmark of British car reviews (British cars=awesome, American cars=crap). Why can't you just accept that it's a good car with a slightly different target market than the go-kartish MX-5? Or that the Solstice may be superior in some ways?

When you tell us your REAL problem with the Solstice... Well, that's when the "honesty" will enter this thread.

corvus13

iTrader: (2)

You guys have to keep in mind that the British for the longest time were the lords of the two seat ROADSTER (notice I didn't say sports car as I don't consider cars like the Solstice a sports car, hell I even have a hard time considering the Corvette as nothing more than a muscle car that can handle itself well). That being said it is easy to understand their bias with regards to American roadsters. What's my opinion on the matter? I think that the Solstice looks pretty good from the outside. Does it have interior issues? Probably. The problem with most American cars is and always has been the fit and finish of the interiors. They will finally have to pull their head out and fix this problem before they will truly be able to take on the competition. Besides I would rather have the upcoming Opel version...the GT.

And by the way...at least Top Gear was more than gracious when it came to the RX-8!

New Yorker

Don't get me wrong - there are things I like better about the Solstice. I think it's a better looking car—it's beautiful. And I bet it's more comfortable/less abusive if you have to spend a few hours droning down the interstate. My only REAL problem with the Solstice is that it seems to be an overweight, clumsy, cheap-feeling piece of crap. But hey—that's just me. I'm sure the car will be a big success. Bigger even than the Fiero.

DrDiaboloco

Oh, snap, now that's just WRONG.

Saw an '88 Fiero GT over the weekend and bored my gf half to death with the "GM finally got the car 'right' and then killed it" story.

I stink.

therm8

Sales figures say it's a bigger success than the vaunted Mx-5

tjbourgoyne

It would have made it if overstock.com would have been around