ASH8

Renesis 8,
Why do you think Mazda Motor Corp Japan want to take over MNAO, because they have obviously done a crap job of marketing their brand and "managing" the retail dealer network.

Mazda US should be selling at least 800,000 units year not 295K when you look at sales figures of the rest of the world.

You do the Math..
Australia population 21 Mil.... over 70K in Mazda Sales in 2007 and still growing..
USA pop 320Mil... 295K..it is bloody pathetic.

Icemark

You are wrong... if you compare prices today to the prices of 10 years ago, or 20 years ago.. cars like the Civic, or BMW's 3 series cost the same.

For example EX-level Civic mid-to late 80s was around 12,000 to $14,000 depending on options.

What cost $12000 in 1986 would cost $21672.69 in 2006.

Heck the RX-8 cost near the same as the S4 GXL FC did when you adjust for inflation, but the RX-8 would have ABS, airbags, and power everything standard.

Funny that... Mazda sells as many FE's as they did FCs...

But want to see when you bring out another FD... sales will tank just like they did in 1993.

Some cars even get cheaper... the current MX-5 is cheaper than the original version when you look at adjusting for inflation. For example: What cost $18000 in 1989 would cost $29581.44 in 2006. (of course there were dealers selling the Miata for as high as $25,000 in 89- but prices normalized within a year, so I just went with the average sold price for a 89).

So you are wrong about car's moving up-market when you adjust for inflation.

refugeefrompistons

Australian market so much different from USA market. Australians get more sporty cars while USA gets camrys and ever growing accord and SUVs.

RX26b

Those cars don't offer anything groundbreaking vs their previous gens like the FD did vs. the FC. Civics and 3 series are shitboxes for the masses. Yeah, even the overpriced BMW - justified in uninformed buyers' minds by the stupid badge and snob appeal.

The "EX" in Honda's line usually had everything included as options, so I'm not sure how they ranged from the base of $12K to almost 20% higher with "options".

Btw, have you noticed that since 2001 the Civic uses cheaper MacPherson struts as opposed to unequal length A-arms? The inflation adjusted cost may be lower in some models, but one has to ask himself where they cut corners.
The yen was much stronger in the mid 80s than it is now. Plus, maybe carmakers are willing to settle for lower gross profits. Maybe they figured out more innovative production techniques. I remember seeing a report from a Japansese magazine that around the late 90s Honda figured out how to trim their aluminum manufacturing costs on the NSX (and Insight?) by over 75%!
They don't have to tank. Remember, there can still be a rotary in the bottom dollar category. The RX-7 would be in addition to an RX-8 and/or Kabura priced half as much - a true flagship rivaling the best out there rather than running with the $30K-ish pack, and its sales would be "gravy"; plus the added benefit of having a tech tour-de-force in your showroom would make lots of people buy the half-as-costly other rotary offerings.
I believe the base Miatas stickered at $13,800 in their inaugural year. Still, you're right and the MX-5s today are probably cheaper adjusted even using the sub $14K #.

Renesis_8

There are reasons.

Since cars are pretty much a necessity in north america, most people just want a car to commute, and drive around their families, hence the camry and accord do so well.

I don't know about Australia, but for Europe and especially Asian cities, cars are a luxury, you don't need one.
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VAPORIZERS INFO

Icemark

actually I have a 07 3 series coupe as well, and while it is not a sports coupe in the same level as the RX-8, it is much more competint than 99% of the other coupes out there, and frankly one of the few rear wheel drive coupes still available.

But see they couldn't build it for the $30K price point, unless people are willing to just buy a two door RX-8 or a hard top rotary powered MX-5.

But there is a reason that few car manufactures build sporty RWD coupes anymore... and it is because they don't sell as well as 4 doors. The sheep in the states, buy Camrys or even the BMW 3 series sedan (which sells 75% more than the coupe) for the rear seats.

Don't get me wrong. If Mazda was to build the equivalent of a Z4 powered by the rotary, I would be in line (after the first year's production was sold)... but it wouldn't make good sales.

LionZoo

I'd have to agree with Icemark here. I'd love a high performance top of the line rotary sports car, but such a proposition is going to be money losing for Mazda and I'd rather any rotary car make money so as to ensure the engine's future survival.

Icemark's comparison was EX to EX. A DX Civic, which is still better equipped than most '80s Civics, is $15,000 today.

As opposed to what? Where they cut corners in the FD? As much as I love the FD, and I do adore it, it's my favorite car of all time after all, I'd much rather the manufacturer save a few dollars in basic suspension setup than save a few dollars that result in half baked cooling systems. And a strut type suspension isn't automatically inferior, it all depends on the application. For a car like the Civic, which despite what ricers like to think is honest basic transportation, a strut makes a ton of sense. It's a compact suspension system that will result in more interior and trunk room. That's a win for a car that probably won't be driven past 50% of its grip envelope.

The yen was much weaker in the mid 80s. In 1985 the exchange rate was about 230 yen to a dollar. Only after the Plaza Accord was signed in 1985 did the yen rise. In 1988, it was about 130 yen to a dollar. These days, the rate is about 120 yen to a dollar.

You can't have a car model whose sales are "gravy." The tooling and engineering expense involved in developing the car would mean that it would need to sell, or else you just have a resource and money blackhole in your lineup. That's a huge no no in today's business environment. The effectiveness of a halo car is hotly debated and nothing conclusive has been proven. Mazda already has a higher percentage of sports car in their lineup than any non-specialty automaker. Considering sports cars generally are not the breadwinners of an automaker's lineup, if I were a Mazda executive, expanding my sports car lineup would be the last thing on my mind.

refugeefrompistons

The mass market sedans and compacts (3 + 6) will make them the most money. Also, that is why they are expanding into SUVs. I think no company would want to kill their halo, but no way there are gonna be two. Sorry guys, it is either a 7 or an 8. Personally i want that 7.

ASH8

Not sure about that,,
We have the large cars too and V8's, V6's and the standard Family cars like
the 4 Door Holden Commodore (Pontiac G8), Ford Falcon, Most of the US Chrysler range. We have Camry's, Accords, Liberty's, Mondeos. All the German brands.
In SUV's, Ford Territory Australian Made large V6 Turbo), Holden's Captiva, Toyota's Laundcruiser and Kluger and RAV4, Nissan's Pajero, Murano. Subaru's US Tribeca.
Honda's MDX and CRV, Mazda's Tribute, CX-7 and 9, and then you have the MPV's and the Utes.

My point really is that the rest of the world has had huge increases in sales of Mazda's where the US has had mediocre, even Europe are now close to the US in total numbers. 4-5 years ago they were doing 150K in Mazda units.

ASH8

It is the same here, keep in mind Australia is about the same size in land mass as the US, we also have to commute large distances and our public transport system is a joke in many states, so YES our cars are a necessity too.

Most households here have 2 cars or more, the husband the wife have one each and then the teenage kids 16YO and above, and then the adult kids still living at home with mum (sorry mom) and dad.

We have kids in their 30's and 40's still single and living still at home.!!

So I guess we are very similar to you guys in the US???

RX26b

I wouldn't want a $30,000 RX-7, and wouldn't expect a GT-R beater for less than half as much. The figure I mentioned in an earlier post was around $50K.

Icemark

But nobody (well I shouldn't say nobody... I should say very very few) are gonna pay $50K for a rotary powered Mazda in todays market.

$50K M3, yes.
$50K IS-F yes
$50K GT-R maybe (but it will probably be stillborn anyway- just for being so butt ugly and heavy- well alone being $25K overpriced)

$50K Mazda... no way.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Well it's like the Supra, 1996 the supra was 45k+ and now they are releasing it again and it will be around 60k from what I heard so far.

I think if they decide to make the RX-? (7) they are defantanly going to make it more then what it was in 1995, 32k. I'm thinking that it will be around 35k base to 45k with options. I can even see it in the 50's. But it's not going to be anywhere near the 8's price range. New engineering, now components, blah, blah blah, that suff doesn't come cheap.

This thread is like deja-vu... lol

RX26b

You're right, and I actually phrased my response wrong. I meant to say that the exchange rate literally let the Japansese car companies double their profits when converting the total revenue in the U.S. back to their home soil. Afterall, the profits to end up in Japan.
The Viper's been that very model that you claim just can not feasibly exist - very low-volume, coupled with a price that's totally unexpected given its hp levels.

RX26b

They already know the ballpark price without confirming what the powetrain will be? Hmmmm, sounds like a b.s. source.
Sadly, if the car will share MX-5 components I don't see a "supercar" 7 as the end result. They're probably wanting to go after the saturated $30K to $35K sports coupe market; it's as if they've thrown in the towel regarding competing at high levels and said "let's just try to outdo the Z car from that other company". We can probably thank Ford for that desision.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

I think in Toyota.com, they said V6 3.5L with their hybrid, a SYNERGY car with 400 Hp and still 30 MPG. It's very cool what they are doing, the brakes when activated, collects positive ions to recharge their batteries or something to that effect.

Whatever the price/power/blah blah, we'll all be guessing til it comes out.

RX26b

Let's all guess what the weight will be. If the last gen turbo was 3500 pounds, and you add the battery pack to this one does that mean Toyota's in a race with the GT-R to see who can hit the two-ton mark with only the driver behind the wheel?

Hybrid power and sportcars should definitely be mutually exclusive.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Lol...

saturn

I'm pretty sure this is what most rational people are saying. The only people really excited about the GTR are people who hang around car forums 16 hours a day. Everyone loves to talk about this car and magazine race it with every other car they can't afford, but that's it. The interior of that car is one of the worst I have seen in years and years.