NO Plan for New Rotary....THE END...maybe.
01-22-2011, 09:38 PM
#76
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
After a few years of ownership, the RX-3,4,5 were not pleasant ownership AT ALL.
I really fail to see why anyone even today drools over them, yes, they are old school classics, and yes you can remove the emissions, but, boy, DRIVERS cars they are NOT....The RX-8 is from another galaxy!..lol
01-22-2011, 11:03 PM
#77
You think the same as me mate!....yeah that 'rat nest' crap, even earlier 13B's were nothing but a NIGHTMARE, like Deceleration Control Valves (Vacuum+ Solenoid), they will fill up with Oil and or get Stuck, car should shake and rattle, backfire and bang...ALL because of emissions...******* POS.
After a few years of ownership, the RX-3,4,5 were not pleasant ownership AT ALL.
I really fail to see why anyone even today drools over them, yes, they are old school classics, and yes you can remove the emissions, but, boy, DRIVERS cars they are NOT....The RX-8 is from another galaxy!..lol
After a few years of ownership, the RX-3,4,5 were not pleasant ownership AT ALL.
I really fail to see why anyone even today drools over them, yes, they are old school classics, and yes you can remove the emissions, but, boy, DRIVERS cars they are NOT....The RX-8 is from another galaxy!..lol
well, I am ok with the "rat nest" on my 7. Its not a big deal and I think street cars should have "some" emission stuff on them. cuz its not just for the enviorment, its for people who drive behind ur car & people walking around on the street. we all like cleaner air right ?
Worst case is they might "re-introduce" some kind of thermal reactor stuff ... that thing can cut emissions down like crazy. (if performance & mpg are no longer a major concern lol)
01-23-2011, 02:26 AM
#78
Ok, my numbers were not so precise.... but Mazda and its manufacturing in Japan is SCREWED if continue to build cheap cars in Japan.
is a news of these days that Daihatsu will leave European market in 2013, too little car, too low profits and no competition in term of price (quality is very high, my brother owns one) aganist european made cars (Daihatsu build all its products in Japan, Osaka)
Mazda with 2 in Europe is a quite EXPENSIVE car into B segment , dealers can't make rebate as the other competitors do....Mini and Audi a1 INCLUDED...
Mazda need more than other jap manufacturers to improve the value of the car that leave with the boat the port of Minami-ward.
for improve the average price of the cars rotary engine in more models is a necessary option, more SUVs too (sadly
)..CX-5 will be priced OVER a Mazda 3 IMHO.....this car is part of this strategy
Last edited by MattMPS; 01-23-2011 at 02:37 AM.
01-23-2011, 05:22 AM
#79
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Part of the reason why they are looking at a plant in Russia..
Agree with you Matt, something will have to give, Mazda being the 2nd Largest Exporter in Japan they are feeling the pinch badly profit wise.
The persistent High Yen, Low Greenback is a REAL worry for them seeing the USA is about 48% of their business...this is all Mazda wanted..NOT, Mazda are even asking their suppliers in Japan to take a 5% cut in contract price, which can mean one thing, poorer quality control.
Mazda have already removed some parts off their cars, like Rear 'Mazda' badge, and the chrome logo on the S2 RX-8 Engine Cover, saving money.
Did you know the RX-8 twin 'Horns' are "Made In India"....Ignition Switch Coil (immobilizer) is Made in Spain.
Agree with you Matt, something will have to give, Mazda being the 2nd Largest Exporter in Japan they are feeling the pinch badly profit wise.
The persistent High Yen, Low Greenback is a REAL worry for them seeing the USA is about 48% of their business...this is all Mazda wanted..NOT, Mazda are even asking their suppliers in Japan to take a 5% cut in contract price, which can mean one thing, poorer quality control.
Mazda have already removed some parts off their cars, like Rear 'Mazda' badge, and the chrome logo on the S2 RX-8 Engine Cover, saving money.
Did you know the RX-8 twin 'Horns' are "Made In India"....Ignition Switch Coil (immobilizer) is Made in Spain.
01-23-2011, 05:29 AM
#80
the 1991 mx-5 NA i own is 100%"made in japan" also in interior lights bulbs (toshiba &and made in japan written)
BTW the car elevator (the item for change a wheel, i don't know the english name) is made in AUSTRALIA
01-23-2011, 09:58 AM
#81
I wish I had more info into how direct injection is influencing the rotary. That along with new materials and possibly A NEW IGNITION SYSTEM could be the things that allow this engine to continue in the automative world.
If the "laser" type ignition can be made to work for us.......my mind boggles on the effect it could have.
I also have a feeling that the electric water pump may come with whatever package they make--if they make it. If I have ever met an engine that likes a constant temperature...this is the king of them.
OD
If the "laser" type ignition can be made to work for us.......my mind boggles on the effect it could have.
I also have a feeling that the electric water pump may come with whatever package they make--if they make it. If I have ever met an engine that likes a constant temperature...this is the king of them.
OD
01-23-2011, 10:08 AM
#82
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Seems market perception of Mazda is killing not only the rotary’s future, but the company itself. It seems to play out like this...
Mazda < Toyota, others, in term of (ITO) luxury
Mazda ??? vs others progress on emissions
Mazda < Nissan, Subaru (and American/European) ITO performance
Mazda < Toyota-Nissan-Honda (and American/European) ITO perceived quality
Mazda < most other ITO choices, options, engines, features, etc.
Mazda < Subaru, Mitsu, Susuki, Nissan as no all-wheel drive options (except Tribute..meh)
Mazda => cost vs other mid/lower end cars, few price sensitive buyers looking at them.
Mazda < almost every other maker ITO advertising… people don’t know what they are doing or selling (if anything).
Mazda < image and reputation is currently stale and stagnant - probably right on par with Mitsu (who?) in most people’s minds
Mazda < almost every other maker ITO attempts at building any new street cred, performance cred, or styling cred...
ok – the ‘new’ Mazda 2 in US – and it says “Hey – look at us, we can make (one) cheap, small, option-less urban car that's not quite the equal of the Focus”.
They seem to be in a holding pattern, as if wounded, fearing bold action.
...afraid to be fresh or innovative in the market - same old models, with some updated styling, new Sky engines coming, but no diesels, no hybrids, no electrics, and apparently no rotary variants of the aforementioned.
(This is not to say they should, but the market seems to think ever maker should.)
...no new sporty cars, even thou they profess to be the "Zoom Zoom" company –so their performance heritage is wasting away -
while European, American makers are bringing forth new, exciting products to tempt the public performance appetite.
…no upmarket cars (ok a concept) on the near horizon. No way to market one anyway even if it did exist.
No one thinks of them as upmarket company – just look at their dealerships compared to others – it’s Marshalls compared to Nordstrom’s.
...intent on shedding weight in their cars (a good thing)...unfortunately to the car buying public that's about as exciting a concept for most as visiting a gym to cut their own tonnage.
The market is looking for “Technology” not “Technique” sadly.
...seem to be in death spiral (along with most Japanese makers) on any relevant or popular styling direction.
It's like watching one of those "What not to Wear" episodes, they just don't 'get it', even thou people are trying to help them.
The bottom line is … if they can’t they snap out of this funk, if they can't START COMMUNICATING TO THE CAR BUYING PUBLIC the MAZDA VISION - they’ll never have the opportunity or money to focus/invest in a back-burner rotary halo/DNA car, public protestations and facebook polls notwithstanding.
Mazda < Toyota, others, in term of (ITO) luxury
Mazda ??? vs others progress on emissions
Mazda < Nissan, Subaru (and American/European) ITO performance
Mazda < Toyota-Nissan-Honda (and American/European) ITO perceived quality
Mazda < most other ITO choices, options, engines, features, etc.
Mazda < Subaru, Mitsu, Susuki, Nissan as no all-wheel drive options (except Tribute..meh)
Mazda => cost vs other mid/lower end cars, few price sensitive buyers looking at them.
Mazda < almost every other maker ITO advertising… people don’t know what they are doing or selling (if anything).
Mazda < image and reputation is currently stale and stagnant - probably right on par with Mitsu (who?) in most people’s minds
Mazda < almost every other maker ITO attempts at building any new street cred, performance cred, or styling cred...
ok – the ‘new’ Mazda 2 in US – and it says “Hey – look at us, we can make (one) cheap, small, option-less urban car that's not quite the equal of the Focus”.
They seem to be in a holding pattern, as if wounded, fearing bold action.
...afraid to be fresh or innovative in the market - same old models, with some updated styling, new Sky engines coming, but no diesels, no hybrids, no electrics, and apparently no rotary variants of the aforementioned.
(This is not to say they should, but the market seems to think ever maker should.)
...no new sporty cars, even thou they profess to be the "Zoom Zoom" company –so their performance heritage is wasting away -
while European, American makers are bringing forth new, exciting products to tempt the public performance appetite.
…no upmarket cars (ok a concept) on the near horizon. No way to market one anyway even if it did exist.
No one thinks of them as upmarket company – just look at their dealerships compared to others – it’s Marshalls compared to Nordstrom’s.
...intent on shedding weight in their cars (a good thing)...unfortunately to the car buying public that's about as exciting a concept for most as visiting a gym to cut their own tonnage.
The market is looking for “Technology” not “Technique” sadly.
...seem to be in death spiral (along with most Japanese makers) on any relevant or popular styling direction.
It's like watching one of those "What not to Wear" episodes, they just don't 'get it', even thou people are trying to help them.
The bottom line is … if they can’t they snap out of this funk, if they can't START COMMUNICATING TO THE CAR BUYING PUBLIC the MAZDA VISION - they’ll never have the opportunity or money to focus/invest in a back-burner rotary halo/DNA car, public protestations and facebook polls notwithstanding.
01-23-2011, 10:17 AM
#83
is not easy, tough....
they must use more the rotary engine ,but i'm pretty sure that they had problems in R&D
01-23-2011, 10:31 AM
#84
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ IMO they need vastly improved "Dealer Customer Experience" along with any cars that might fit the description to go upmarket. Have you visited a BMW or Lexus stealership lately? Yea it may be all flash and sizzle, on a nice couch while watching TV with complimentary coffee and pastries, but it's what's required apparently. (let's not even get into actual car-service quality)
lol as an example, MY Mazda dealer's waiting area has $.50 make-a-cup-yourself coffee machine near a slightly padded slab bench sitting 5 ft in front of the service writeup desk...2 ft from the outside door - and a small old tube TV hung off the stained ceiling tiles - wow I feel pampered now!
At least their service IS good... but upmarket it's not!
lol as an example, MY Mazda dealer's waiting area has $.50 make-a-cup-yourself coffee machine near a slightly padded slab bench sitting 5 ft in front of the service writeup desk...2 ft from the outside door - and a small old tube TV hung off the stained ceiling tiles - wow I feel pampered now!
At least their service IS good... but upmarket it's not!
Last edited by Spin9k; 01-23-2011 at 10:33 AM.
01-23-2011, 12:46 PM
#85
If they can get the next Rotary right, they "could" try to put a bit more effort into advertisement, cuz honestly, I never seen a single AD in the US for RX-8. not one AD. which is just sad.
They should try to put a bit of money to try to sell the S2, cuz IMO the S2 got everything right ... it might sound bad on paper (hp/tq wise) but hey, if Steve Jobs can save Apple with marketing, why can't Mazda? they need to hire someone who knows how to do it properly.
They should try to put a bit of money to try to sell the S2, cuz IMO the S2 got everything right ... it might sound bad on paper (hp/tq wise) but hey, if Steve Jobs can save Apple with marketing, why can't Mazda? they need to hire someone who knows how to do it properly.
01-23-2011, 03:28 PM
#86
01-23-2011, 03:32 PM
#87
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
the rear and (maybe) front lightsof my 6 MPS are made in thailand
the 1991 mx-5 NA i own is 100%"made in japan" also in interior lights bulbs (toshiba &and made in japan written)
BTW the car elevator (the item for change a wheel, i don't know the english name) is made in AUSTRALIA
the 1991 mx-5 NA i own is 100%"made in japan" also in interior lights bulbs (toshiba &and made in japan written)
BTW the car elevator (the item for change a wheel, i don't know the english name) is made in AUSTRALIA
Plus we make their External Mirrors (some models)..
Were making Seatbelts when Rainsfords existed.
01-23-2011, 03:54 PM
#88
If they can get the next Rotary right, they "could" try to put a bit more effort into advertisement, cuz honestly, I never seen a single AD in the US for RX-8. not one AD. which is just sad.
They should try to put a bit of money to try to sell the S2, cuz IMO the S2 got everything right ... it might sound bad on paper (hp/tq wise) but hey, if Steve Jobs can save Apple with marketing, why can't Mazda? they need to hire someone who knows how to do it properly.
They should try to put a bit of money to try to sell the S2, cuz IMO the S2 got everything right ... it might sound bad on paper (hp/tq wise) but hey, if Steve Jobs can save Apple with marketing, why can't Mazda? they need to hire someone who knows how to do it properly.
How many car makers have you seen market their facelifted versions heavily? Not like they'll ever sell a lot either way, it would be wasted money.
01-23-2011, 04:01 PM
#89
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
^ IMO they need vastly improved "Dealer Customer Experience" along with any cars that might fit the description to go upmarket. Have you visited a BMW or Lexus stealership lately? Yea it may be all flash and sizzle, on a nice couch while watching TV with complimentary coffee and pastries, but it's what's required apparently. (let's not even get into actual car-service quality)
lol as an example, MY Mazda dealer's waiting area has $.50 make-a-cup-yourself coffee machine near a slightly padded slab bench sitting 5 ft in front of the service writeup desk...2 ft from the outside door - and a small old tube TV hung off the stained ceiling tiles - wow I feel pampered now! At least their service IS good... but upmarket it's not!
lol as an example, MY Mazda dealer's waiting area has $.50 make-a-cup-yourself coffee machine near a slightly padded slab bench sitting 5 ft in front of the service writeup desk...2 ft from the outside door - and a small old tube TV hung off the stained ceiling tiles - wow I feel pampered now!
At least their service IS good... but upmarket it's not!I have expressed my views before about MNAO, they "try" but IMO there are to many "hangers on"...a good times car company...no offense, to anyone, I say it like I think it is, BUT, FAT Overweight SLOBS, that go Yes, yes, yes, to Mazda Japan, BUT DO ******* NOTHING!!!
There were two Mazda NAO "managers" who came out here to Australia (last year I think) "to try and learn how to do what we do"....WHAT!!!..
Mazda's poor owner perception in the US is all to do with Dealer and Distributor relations and HOW it all works and WHO the Dealer and Distributors EMPLOY at every level.
They have had Decades to get it right and yet they still perform poorly.
Why do you think MMC want to take over completely, like they have in every other large market...and it worked...might happen sooner now Ford are not in control...
MNAO CEO is a Ford Man..need I say anymore.
Do you want some examples...
I have this straight from two separate US Mazda Parts Dealers, who say when you want something done MNAO do NOTHING, most of the time they don't even acknowledge or even reply to a request, even at a Management Level!!!..
So they (the Dealer) has given up even asking!!
Do you want another one, a US Mazda Dealer complained about the MNAO website on the new Mazda 2 launch and that there are No Promo Video's (like Interior Vids, like all other models), now how long has the 2 been out, nearly a year and still no Videos, and yes they know MNAO changed Advertising contract, but please, as I was told Nothing Happens...only what they want to do.
Last edited by ASH8; 01-23-2011 at 04:14 PM.
01-23-2011, 04:33 PM
#90
oh I remember another thing, in tokyo drift, sure its a rx-7, but most people can't even tell, failed.
I mean if the manufacture does not put a lot of effort, why would aftermarket companies do the dirty work ?
but honestly this is just an American thing, in Japan, they promote the car heavily, tons of parts for the 7 and 8.
01-23-2011, 04:46 PM
#91
Yes, It is NOT the Product...it is the Distributor who tells its Private Dealers what to do.
I have expressed my views before about MNAO, they "try" but IMO there are to many "hangers on"...a good times car company...no offense, to anyone, I say it like I think it is, BUT, FAT Overweight SLOBS, that go Yes, yes, yes, to Mazda Japan, BUT DO ******* NOTHING!!!
There were two Mazda NAO "managers" who came out here to Australia (last year I think) "to try and learn how to do what we do"....WHAT!!!..
Mazda's poor owner perception in the US is all to do with Dealer and Distributor relations and HOW it all works and WHO the Dealer and Distributors EMPLOY at every level.
They have had Decades to get it right and yet they still perform poorly.
Why do you think MMC want to take over completely, like they have in every other large market...and it worked...might happen sooner now Ford are not in control...
MNAO CEO is a Ford Man..need I say anymore.
Do you want some examples...
I have this straight from two separate US Mazda Parts Dealers, who say when you want something done MNAO do NOTHING, most of the time they don't even acknowledge or even reply to a request, even at a Management Level!!!..
So they (the Dealer) has given up even asking!!
Do you want another one, a US Mazda Dealer complained about the MNAO website on the new Mazda 2 launch and that there are No Promo Video's (like Interior Vids, like all other models), now how long has the 2 been out, nearly a year and still no Videos, and yes they know MNAO changed Advertising contract, but please, as I was told Nothing Happens...only what they want to do.
I have expressed my views before about MNAO, they "try" but IMO there are to many "hangers on"...a good times car company...no offense, to anyone, I say it like I think it is, BUT, FAT Overweight SLOBS, that go Yes, yes, yes, to Mazda Japan, BUT DO ******* NOTHING!!!
There were two Mazda NAO "managers" who came out here to Australia (last year I think) "to try and learn how to do what we do"....WHAT!!!..
Mazda's poor owner perception in the US is all to do with Dealer and Distributor relations and HOW it all works and WHO the Dealer and Distributors EMPLOY at every level.
They have had Decades to get it right and yet they still perform poorly.
Why do you think MMC want to take over completely, like they have in every other large market...and it worked...might happen sooner now Ford are not in control...
MNAO CEO is a Ford Man..need I say anymore.
Do you want some examples...
I have this straight from two separate US Mazda Parts Dealers, who say when you want something done MNAO do NOTHING, most of the time they don't even acknowledge or even reply to a request, even at a Management Level!!!..
So they (the Dealer) has given up even asking!!
Do you want another one, a US Mazda Dealer complained about the MNAO website on the new Mazda 2 launch and that there are No Promo Video's (like Interior Vids, like all other models), now how long has the 2 been out, nearly a year and still no Videos, and yes they know MNAO changed Advertising contract, but please, as I was told Nothing Happens...only what they want to do.
they really need to hire someone who has a strong passion about cars, not just some random dude with a master degree, note, I am not saying people with Master degree don't luv cars, u guys get what I mean.
They need to start focusing on customers more, not just "YES YES YES YES" to Mazda Japan. jesus.
oh speaking of that CEO, Jim O'Sullivan, he will soon be kicked out and probably replace him with some Japanese. or simply Someone other than Ford.
Last edited by nycgps; 01-23-2011 at 04:51 PM.
01-23-2011, 05:15 PM
#92
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Yes, I do J, BUT, the Change Really HAS TO start at the TOP.
Inserting a Guy with Car Passion soon gets ANY drive,enthusiasm,desire kicked out of him by the Ivory Tower of BULL ****...Nothing again gets done, he become disillusioned and in the end gives up and goes with the flow...
The LEADING/Change has to start at the top.
Inserting a Guy with Car Passion soon gets ANY drive,enthusiasm,desire kicked out of him by the Ivory Tower of BULL ****...Nothing again gets done, he become disillusioned and in the end gives up and goes with the flow...
The LEADING/Change has to start at the top.
01-24-2011, 01:21 AM
#94
People is very satisfied with cars, but not with assistance and global purchasing experience.
01-24-2011, 06:08 AM
#95
The Slow and the Serious
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...afraid to be fresh or innovative in the market - same old models, with some updated styling, new Sky engines coming, but no diesels, no hybrids, no electrics, and apparently no rotary variants of the aforementioned.
(This is not to say they should, but the market seems to think ever maker should.)
(This is not to say they should, but the market seems to think ever maker should.)
01-24-2011, 07:10 AM
#96
Mazda should rethink mazda Italy and part of mazda europe from scratch.
Diesels are so common here though... the new engine lineup will probably work.
01-24-2011, 08:31 AM
#97
I wish I had more info into how direct injection is influencing the rotary. That along with new materials and possibly A NEW IGNITION SYSTEM could be the things that allow this engine to continue in the automative world.
If the "laser" type ignition can be made to work for us.......my mind boggles on the effect it could have.
If the "laser" type ignition can be made to work for us.......my mind boggles on the effect it could have.
01-24-2011, 08:38 AM
#98
NEVER GIVE UP! That's the attitude in the rotary engine group and larger parts of Mazda engineering as well.
Paul.
01-24-2011, 08:41 AM
#99
Call me the eternal optimist but I believe the technology is there. Mazda's new catalytic advancements will play their role. The new engine's dimensions and their effect on thermal efficiency will play a role. Direct injection will make a difference. Further advancement of the metering system and the proposed plasma ignition perhaps.
NEVER GIVE UP! That's the attitude in the rotary engine group and larger parts of Mazda engineering as well.
Paul.
NEVER GIVE UP! That's the attitude in the rotary engine group and larger parts of Mazda engineering as well.
Paul.